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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 21526
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


If we drafted Dee Millner, Jtagg would blow up the internet. But I agree with him BPA. Nobody on this team position is safe.
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coolj247


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 319
Location: Cali
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

problem is, in this draft who is the bpa? i dont think there are any clear cut guys. everyone has something on them, some type of question. theres 10 or so top guys, but sayin who is the best is the hard part.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11994
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11994
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolj247 wrote:
problem is, in this draft who is the bpa? i dont think there are any clear cut guys. everyone has something on them, some type of question. theres 10 or so top guys, but sayin who is the best is the hard part.


There's no clear cut guys to us but I'm sure there's a board somewhere in 1220 that has a ton of names on it in a particular order.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22507
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.


It's this simple. If you have great pass rushers, you don't great CBs as you've said many times.

But the inverse also applies. If your pass rush is a non-factor, then you need great cover CBs.

The Raiders seems set w/ the CB additions, so pass rush is the only place I see them going with the pick.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11994
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.


It's this simple. If you have great pass rushers, you don't great CBs as you've said many times.

But the inverse also applies. If your pass rush is a non-factor, then you need great cover CBs.

The Raiders seems set w/ the CB additions, so pass rush is the only place I see them going with the pick.


But honestly, how long can a CB stick w/ a WR? If your pass rush can't get to the QB in say, 5-6 seconds, it nullifies how good your CB is b/c it's almost impossible to stick w/ them. Plus w/ this turning into such a pass heavy league, there's numerous other options to throw to.

Both are necessary and I agree w/ your logic it's just that the inverse isn't as effective as having a good pass rush. Not at all.

I just wish we were in this predicament when there was a better draft class coming out. At least the speculation will start to be gone in 1 week and 3 days......
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5766
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
problem is, in this draft who is the bpa? i dont think there are any clear cut guys. everyone has something on them, some type of question. theres 10 or so top guys, but sayin who is the best is the hard part.


There's no clear cut guys to us but I'm sure there's a board somewhere in 1220 that has a ton of names on it in a particular order.


Seems to me there are clear cut guys, somewhat. But we don't want to acknowledge them as much because it's not a need position. The LTs, they are the BPA. If available..
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3650
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.


It's this simple. If you have great pass rushers, you don't great CBs as you've said many times.

But the inverse also applies. If your pass rush is a non-factor, then you need great cover CBs.

The Raiders seems set w/ the CB additions, so pass rush is the only place I see them going with the pick.


But honestly, how long can a CB stick w/ a WR? If your pass rush can't get to the QB in say, 5-6 seconds, it nullifies how good your CB is b/c it's almost impossible to stick w/ them. Plus w/ this turning into such a pass heavy league, there's numerous other options to throw to.

Both are necessary and I agree w/ your logic it's just that the inverse isn't as effective as having a good pass rush. Not at all.

I just wish we were in this predicament when there was a better draft class coming out. At least the speculation will start to be gone in 1 week and 3 days......


Plus you'll need more CBs then pass rushers. 2 pass rushers
verse 3-4 CBs. Also a good D-linemen and LB can play the run as well as pass rush.
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Roninho


Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1650
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:

LE- Houstan (Hunter )
UT- Walker
NT- Sims (Biluki)
RE- ---- (Carter)

WLB- Burris (Maiava)
MLB- Roach
SLB- Burnett

CB- Porter (Hanson)
CB- Jenkins (Adams)
FS- ----- (Young)
SS- Branch

I'm guessing these players get serious playing time this season. (xxx) is a backup, --- is no starter available.

Even if you put Jared Allen at RE and Gholdson at FS this defense is going to give up a lot of points.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33067
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roninho wrote:
raidr4life wrote:

LE- Houstan (Hunter )
UT- Walker
NT- Sims (Biluki)
RE- Ansah (Carter)

WLB- Burris (Maiava)
MLB- Roach
SLB- Burnett

CB- Porter (Hanson)
CB- Jenkins (Adams)
FS- Rambo (Young)
SS- Branch

I'm guessing these players get serious playing time this season. (xxx) is a backup, --- is no starter available.

Even if you put Jared Allen at RE and Gholdson at FS this defense is going to give up a lot of points.



I would like this defense.
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BigBillsFan13 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8865
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Roninho wrote:
raidr4life wrote:

LE- Houstan (Hunter )
UT- Walker
NT- Sims (Biluki)
RE- Ansah (Carter)

WLB- Burris (Maiava)
MLB- Roach
SLB- Burnett

CB- Porter (Hanson)
CB- Jenkins (Adams)
FS- Rambo (Young)
SS- Branch

I'm guessing these players get serious playing time this season. (xxx) is a backup, --- is no starter available.

Even if you put Jared Allen at RE and Gholdson at FS this defense is going to give up a lot of points.



I would like this defense.

As would I and that doesn't even include the other guys you could get.
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Roninho


Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 1650
Location: The Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Roninho wrote:
raidr4life wrote:

LE- Houstan (Hunter )
UT- Walker
NT- Sims (Biluki)
RE- Ansah (Carter)

WLB- Burris (Maiava)
MLB- Roach
SLB- Burnett

CB- Porter (Hanson)
CB- Jenkins (Adams)
FS- Rambo (Young)
SS- Branch

I'm guessing these players get serious playing time this season. (xxx) is a backup, --- is no starter available.

Even if you put Jared Allen at RE and Gholdson at FS this defense is going to give up a lot of points.



I would like this defense.

As in considering no cap or picks this is a decent solution with some new talent to build on? Or as in this defense is going to be good on the field next season?

The 1st i would agree, the 2nd not so much.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 33067
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roninho wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Roninho wrote:
raidr4life wrote:

LE- Houstan (Hunter )
UT- Walker
NT- Sims (Biluki)
RE- Ansah (Carter)

WLB- Burris (Maiava)
MLB- Roach
SLB- Burnett

CB- Porter (Hanson)
CB- Jenkins (Adams)
FS- Rambo (Young)
SS- Branch

I'm guessing these players get serious playing time this season. (xxx) is a backup, --- is no starter available.

Even if you put Jared Allen at RE and Gholdson at FS this defense is going to give up a lot of points.



I would like this defense.

As in considering no cap or picks this is a decent solution with some new talent to build on? Or as in this defense is going to be good on the field next season?

The 1st i would agree, the 2nd not so much.

Yeah, I see it the same. Next season is going to be ugly no matter what as you already stated. Tibo's right too, this isn't even considering other players we could add.
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BigBillsFan13 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5815
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.


It's this simple. If you have great pass rushers, you don't great CBs as you've said many times.

But the inverse also applies. If your pass rush is a non-factor, then you need great cover CBs.

The Raiders seems set w/ the CB additions, so pass rush is the only place I see them going with the pick.


But honestly, how long can a CB stick w/ a WR? If your pass rush can't get to the QB in say, 5-6 seconds, it nullifies how good your CB is b/c it's almost impossible to stick w/ them. Plus w/ this turning into such a pass heavy league, there's numerous other options to throw to.

Both are necessary and I agree w/ your logic it's just that the inverse isn't as effective as having a good pass rush. Not at all.

I just wish we were in this predicament when there was a better draft class coming out. At least the speculation will start to be gone in 1 week and 3 days......


I concur with JTagg. What he is politely trying to say (i think) is that while there IS such a thing a coverage sacks they are exponentially harder to get. Hence, it does not justify drafting a CB high. Imo if the prospects aren't there then you should do what it is predicted McKenzie will do which is absent edge rushers take the best interior rusher if he is BPA. However, I differ with the FO on who the best interior DL rusher is Floyd v Richardson. Come back with any number of the edge rushers later in the draft.
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22507
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
coolj247 wrote:
first 3 picks have to be dt, de, and adressing the right side of the line. i dont care what order


Meh, I can't really agree but I like your logic. I just want the best player at whatever position. We don't really have anyone now who is irreplaceable. Yeah those positions need the most work but I still the best player is the way to go.


Even CB?


Unfortunately. It'd be a wasted pick but if that's the philosophy, stick to it.


It's this simple. If you have great pass rushers, you don't great CBs as you've said many times.

But the inverse also applies. If your pass rush is a non-factor, then you need great cover CBs.

The Raiders seems set w/ the CB additions, so pass rush is the only place I see them going with the pick.


But honestly, how long can a CB stick w/ a WR? If your pass rush can't get to the QB in say, 5-6 seconds, it nullifies how good your CB is b/c it's almost impossible to stick w/ them. Plus w/ this turning into such a pass heavy league, there's numerous other options to throw to.

Both are necessary and I agree w/ your logic it's just that the inverse isn't as effective as having a good pass rush. Not at all.

I just wish we were in this predicament when there was a better draft class coming out. At least the speculation will start to be gone in 1 week and 3 days......


Seattle is a good example. Not a great pass rushing team last year, but their secondary was on lock down. They got a lot of coverage sacks. Solid CBs can stick long enough for your below average pass rush to get pressure.

Raiders on the other hand had no pass rush and poor CBs. So they just looked ridiculous out there trying to cover.

I will agree ten fold I'd rather have pass rushers and a great pass rushing team than a bunch of cover CBs.
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