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Patriots host Steelers RFA WR Emmanuel Sanders
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
I am really not sure if I like this potential move.

A lot of people are claiming the 3rd wouldn't be a lost cause as our track record with them isn't great. Well, if that's the case, why not use it to trade up in the 1st to grab a higher rated prospect, or trade it into next year for a 2nd.

Sanders hasn't been spectacular by any stretch since coming into the NFL. So I don't think the 3rd is worth it, in that sense. I would much rather trade down into the 4th and 5th (like we did with Oakland a couple seasons ago) where we tend to have better success.


The argument for trading the third rounder is less that the Pats have had limited success in that round but that league-wide it is tough to find players who are end up as successful as Sanders has already been.

Fourth and fifth round picks are even less successful. The chances of finding someone as successful as Sanders has shown to be are maybe 1 out of 5.


It is tough to find players that have been as successful as Sanders is because, well, they haven't played in the NFL yet. Of course, the idea behind a 3rd Round Draft Pick (like all of them) is that they are 100% potential. Why would we 'settle' for the known commodity, when we could end up hitting it out of the park like we did with Stevan Ridley, or Aaron Hernandez (Early 4th...)? Yes, people like to dwell on the Taylor Price/Kevin O'Connell Patriots selections, but what about the Mike Wallace/Geno Atkins/Richard Shermans that other teams hit on? Why don't we hope we hit on one of these picks every once in a while like they do?

I can see it now, we trade this 3rd to the Steelers and they end up drafting Mike Wallace's replacement who ends up being Roethlisberger's favorite target for the rest of his career.

Meh, maybe it's blind optimism, but I would rather roll the dice on a draft pick and hope we get a Wallace/Atkins/Sherman rather than go for a known, lesser commodity than Sanders.

BB's willingness to trade away picks recently has been a little unnerving too, I haven't been a fan of the Pats very long, but he doesn't seem to have been so 'willy nilly' with draft picks as he has the last couple of seasons (Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Salas, Talib) If we had entered this draft in the way we did 2011 where we had a gazillion picks, I can understand going for a player like Sanders, but in a draft with only 5 selections, I'd rather gamble.
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
I am really not sure if I like this potential move.

A lot of people are claiming the 3rd wouldn't be a lost cause as our track record with them isn't great. Well, if that's the case, why not use it to trade up in the 1st to grab a higher rated prospect, or trade it into next year for a 2nd.

Sanders hasn't been spectacular by any stretch since coming into the NFL. So I don't think the 3rd is worth it, in that sense. I would much rather trade down into the 4th and 5th (like we did with Oakland a couple seasons ago) where we tend to have better success.


The argument for trading the third rounder is less that the Pats have had limited success in that round but that league-wide it is tough to find players who are end up as successful as Sanders has already been.

Fourth and fifth round picks are even less successful. The chances of finding someone as successful as Sanders has shown to be are maybe 1 out of 5.


It is tough to find players that have been as successful as Sanders is because, well, they haven't played in the NFL yet. Of course, the idea behind a 3rd Round Draft Pick (like all of them) is that they are 100% potential. Why would we 'settle' for the known commodity, when we could end up hitting it out of the park like we did with Stevan Ridley, or Aaron Hernandez (Early 4th...)? Yes, people like to dwell on the Taylor Price/Kevin O'Connell Patriots selections, but what about the Mike Wallace/Geno Atkins/Richard Shermans that other teams hit on? Why don't we hope we hit on one of these picks every once in a while like they do?

I can see it now, we trade this 3rd to the Steelers and they end up drafting Mike Wallace's replacement who ends up being Roethlisberger's favorite target for the rest of his career.

Meh, maybe it's blind optimism, but I would rather roll the dice on a draft pick and hope we get a Wallace/Atkins/Sherman rather than go for a known, lesser commodity than Sanders.

BB's willingness to trade away picks recently has been a little unnerving too, I haven't been a fan of the Pats very long, but he doesn't seem to have been so 'willy nilly' with draft picks as he has the last couple of seasons (Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Salas, Talib) If we had entered this draft in the way we did 2011 where we had a gazillion picks, I can understand going for a player like Sanders, but in a draft with only 5 selections, I'd rather gamble.


Why settle? "Settling" will avoid the 75%+ fail rate the Pats have had during BB's tenure on WR picks. You do realize the two most successful wideouts with the Patriots were traded for, right? Understanding coverages and being able to adapt the pattern is a necessity in the Patriots offensive system. Failure in this regard completely demolishes play scheming. A guy with a little more seasoning is in many cases a benefit not a detriment in this offense.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
I am really not sure if I like this potential move.

A lot of people are claiming the 3rd wouldn't be a lost cause as our track record with them isn't great. Well, if that's the case, why not use it to trade up in the 1st to grab a higher rated prospect, or trade it into next year for a 2nd.

Sanders hasn't been spectacular by any stretch since coming into the NFL. So I don't think the 3rd is worth it, in that sense. I would much rather trade down into the 4th and 5th (like we did with Oakland a couple seasons ago) where we tend to have better success.


The argument for trading the third rounder is less that the Pats have had limited success in that round but that league-wide it is tough to find players who are end up as successful as Sanders has already been.

Fourth and fifth round picks are even less successful. The chances of finding someone as successful as Sanders has shown to be are maybe 1 out of 5.


It is tough to find players that have been as successful as Sanders is because, well, they haven't played in the NFL yet. Of course, the idea behind a 3rd Round Draft Pick (like all of them) is that they are 100% potential. Why would we 'settle' for the known commodity, when we could end up hitting it out of the park like we did with Stevan Ridley, or Aaron Hernandez (Early 4th...)? Yes, people like to dwell on the Taylor Price/Kevin O'Connell Patriots selections, but what about the Mike Wallace/Geno Atkins/Richard Shermans that other teams hit on? Why don't we hope we hit on one of these picks every once in a while like they do?

I can see it now, we trade this 3rd to the Steelers and they end up drafting Mike Wallace's replacement who ends up being Roethlisberger's favorite target for the rest of his career.

Meh, maybe it's blind optimism, but I would rather roll the dice on a draft pick and hope we get a Wallace/Atkins/Sherman rather than go for a known, lesser commodity than Sanders.

BB's willingness to trade away picks recently has been a little unnerving too, I haven't been a fan of the Pats very long, but he doesn't seem to have been so 'willy nilly' with draft picks as he has the last couple of seasons (Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Salas, Talib) If we had entered this draft in the way we did 2011 where we had a gazillion picks, I can understand going for a player like Sanders, but in a draft with only 5 selections, I'd rather gamble.


Why settle? "Settling" will avoid the 75%+ fail rate the Pats have had during BB's tenure on WR picks. You do realize the two most successful wideouts with the Patriots were traded for, right? Understanding coverages and being able to adapt the pattern is a necessity in the Patriots offensive system. Failure in this regard completely demolishes play scheming. A guy with a little more seasoning is in many cases a benefit not a detriment in this offense.


Well, yes, of course, but spending the pick on Sanders also removes that 25% success chance of drafting a better WR. It's all about the willingness to trust your scouting and ability to develop a WR. If the Pats don't feel there is a WR who can produce better in the draft than Sanders, then by all means, go for it. Perhaps I'm the gambling man who wants to roll the dice on the 25% chance.

Don't tell mcmurtry about the Pats ability draft players at certain positions based off success and failure in previous drafts though Wink
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nextsuperstar


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
I am really not sure if I like this potential move.

A lot of people are claiming the 3rd wouldn't be a lost cause as our track record with them isn't great. Well, if that's the case, why not use it to trade up in the 1st to grab a higher rated prospect, or trade it into next year for a 2nd.

Sanders hasn't been spectacular by any stretch since coming into the NFL. So I don't think the 3rd is worth it, in that sense. I would much rather trade down into the 4th and 5th (like we did with Oakland a couple seasons ago) where we tend to have better success.


The argument for trading the third rounder is less that the Pats have had limited success in that round but that league-wide it is tough to find players who are end up as successful as Sanders has already been.

Fourth and fifth round picks are even less successful. The chances of finding someone as successful as Sanders has shown to be are maybe 1 out of 5.


It is tough to find players that have been as successful as Sanders is because, well, they haven't played in the NFL yet. Of course, the idea behind a 3rd Round Draft Pick (like all of them) is that they are 100% potential. Why would we 'settle' for the known commodity, when we could end up hitting it out of the park like we did with Stevan Ridley, or Aaron Hernandez (Early 4th...)? Yes, people like to dwell on the Taylor Price/Kevin O'Connell Patriots selections, but what about the Mike Wallace/Geno Atkins/Richard Shermans that other teams hit on? Why don't we hope we hit on one of these picks every once in a while like they do?

I can see it now, we trade this 3rd to the Steelers and they end up drafting Mike Wallace's replacement who ends up being Roethlisberger's favorite target for the rest of his career.

Meh, maybe it's blind optimism, but I would rather roll the dice on a draft pick and hope we get a Wallace/Atkins/Sherman rather than go for a known, lesser commodity than Sanders.

BB's willingness to trade away picks recently has been a little unnerving too, I haven't been a fan of the Pats very long, but he doesn't seem to have been so 'willy nilly' with draft picks as he has the last couple of seasons (Ochocinco, Haynesworth, Salas, Talib) If we had entered this draft in the way we did 2011 where we had a gazillion picks, I can understand going for a player like Sanders, but in a draft with only 5 selections, I'd rather gamble.


Why settle? "Settling" will avoid the 75%+ fail rate the Pats have had during BB's tenure on WR picks. You do realize the two most successful wideouts with the Patriots were traded for, right? Understanding coverages and being able to adapt the pattern is a necessity in the Patriots offensive system. Failure in this regard completely demolishes play scheming. A guy with a little more seasoning is in many cases a benefit not a detriment in this offense.


Well, yes, of course, but spending the pick on Sanders also removes that 25% success chance of drafting a better WR. It's all about the willingness to trust your scouting and ability to develop a WR. If the Pats don't feel there is a WR who can produce better in the draft than Sanders, then by all means, go for it. Perhaps I'm the gambling man who wants to roll the dice on the 25% chance.

Don't tell mcmurtry about the Pats ability draft players at certain positions based off success and failure in previous drafts though Wink



The odds to find someone better are lower than 25%. I list all of the patriots third round selections who were not failures somewhere earlier in this thread. Even among the players who were not busts, most were backups or special teamers.

The three best 3rd rounders in BB's tenure here (13 drafts) were Ellis Hobbs, Steven Ridley, and Nick Kaczur. Of those three only Ridley is really probably clearly better than Sanders. Kaczur was a solid starter, but his value was diminished since he was unable to stay healthy in the long run.

Here is what I wrote, and I was actually point out that BB is actually much more successful later in the draft than most teams:

nextsuperstar wrote:

He actually got a lot of guys who have managed to play at least 50 games in the league. He got Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur (starting tackle for several years), David Thomas, Brandon Tate (who has turned into a solid kick returner for the Bengals), and JR Redman.

Now those guys are all special teamers and backups and occasional starters. Which is what you expect from the third round. They have proven to be useful enough players to at least stick around for three or more years. If you get one stud running back a starting tackle and a smattering of reserves /occasional starters are not drafting much worse than the average team in the third round.


The steelers are not that much better drafting in the third than the Patriots. Heck there 2012 3rd round pick did not even play a single game last year. In 2009 they got Wallace and Keenan Lewis (two home runs), but in 2008 they took Bruce Davis a linebacker who only played five games for them and never even recorded a tackle while wearing black and yellow.

You say trust your ability to evaluate players in the draft, but what about the ability to evaluate players in the league? BB I am sure has broken down film of Sanders and believes he knows what Sanders's capabilities.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not about previous success with that pick, or that round or whatever. It's about that pick's potential to turn into an NFL caliber player. I couldn't care less about how the Pats have done with previous 3rd Round picks when we are talking in the context of this years 3rd Round pick.

What we know about Sanders has already been shown on the NFL stage, it is OK, not great, but OK. What we have with the 3rd Round pick is the mystery box, it could turn into an NFL bust (at any position), an NFL superstar (at any position) an average NFL player (at any position) It could also turn into a 2nd Round pick in 2014 (which could turn into any NFL player of any caliber or position) it could turn into a 2013 4th and 5th Round pick, giving us 2 chances (at lesser odds) of getting an NFL player of any caliber or position)

Basically, the options of that 3rd Round pick, IMO, are far better than the known commodity of Sanders, despite the risks posed by keeping the pick.
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nextsuperstar


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
It's not about previous success with that pick, or that round or whatever. It's about that pick's potential to turn into an NFL caliber player. I couldn't care less about how the Pats have done with previous 3rd Round picks when we are talking in the context of this years 3rd Round pick.

What we know about Sanders has already been shown on the NFL stage, it is OK, not great, but OK. What we have with the 3rd Round pick is the mystery box, it could turn into an NFL bust (at any position), an NFL superstar (at any position) an average NFL player (at any position) It could also turn into a 2nd Round pick in 2014 (which could turn into any NFL player of any caliber or position) it could turn into a 2013 4th and 5th Round pick, giving us 2 chances (at lesser odds) of getting an NFL player of any caliber or position)

Basically, the options of that 3rd Round pick, IMO, are far better than the known commodity of Sanders, despite the risks posed by keeping the pick.


An undrafted free agent can turn into a hall of famer, just look at Warren Moon. A sixth round pick can turn into the best QB of all time, just look at Tom Brady. The odds of either of those things happening are astronomically slim.

You need to not only look at the potential utility of the pick (i.e. picking a Mike Wallace), but the chances of drafting a Mike Wallace (very very slim). NFL coaches/front offices tend to be risk adverse, since risky moves that fail get you fired. Belichick actually is more willing than most to take the risky move, if the potential for failure is outweighed by upside of success.

Nevertheless, the odds of finding someone better than Emmanuel Sanders are very low, so that is why the Patriots are considering signing Sanders to an offersheet.

As an aside, the last time the Patriots signed a restricted free agent it was Wes Welker, irrc. They actually trade with the Dolphins for Wes (to avoid the Dolphins matching) so they gave up a second round pick. That pick ended up being Samson Satele. Satele has been a solid offensive lineman in this league, but I am sure the patriots do not regret that Welker trade one bit.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nextsuperstar wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
It's not about previous success with that pick, or that round or whatever. It's about that pick's potential to turn into an NFL caliber player. I couldn't care less about how the Pats have done with previous 3rd Round picks when we are talking in the context of this years 3rd Round pick.

What we know about Sanders has already been shown on the NFL stage, it is OK, not great, but OK. What we have with the 3rd Round pick is the mystery box, it could turn into an NFL bust (at any position), an NFL superstar (at any position) an average NFL player (at any position) It could also turn into a 2nd Round pick in 2014 (which could turn into any NFL player of any caliber or position) it could turn into a 2013 4th and 5th Round pick, giving us 2 chances (at lesser odds) of getting an NFL player of any caliber or position)

Basically, the options of that 3rd Round pick, IMO, are far better than the known commodity of Sanders, despite the risks posed by keeping the pick.


An undrafted free agent can turn into a hall of famer, just look at Warren Moon. A sixth round pick can turn into the best QB of all time, just look at Tom Brady. The odds of either of those things happening are astronomically slim.

You need to not only look at the potential utility of the pick (i.e. picking a Mike Wallace), but the chances of drafting a Mike Wallace (very very slim). NFL coaches/front offices tend to be risk adverse, since risky moves that fail get you fired. Belichick actually is more willing than most to take the risky move, if the potential for failure is outweighed by upside of success.

Nevertheless, the odds of finding someone better than Emmanuel Sanders are very low, so that is why the Patriots are considering signing Sanders to an offersheet.

As an aside, the last time the Patriots signed a restricted free agent it was Wes Welker, irrc. They actually trade with the Dolphins for Wes (to avoid the Dolphins matching) so they gave up a second round pick. That pick ended up being Samson Satele. Satele has been a solid offensive lineman in this league, but I am sure the patriots do not regret that Welker trade one bit.


If everyone is so OK with giving up a 3rd Round Pick for a WR, why don't we explore options like Kenny Britt, Miles Austin, Jeremy Maclin etc. All of which are better than Sanders and are more proven and could be had for the same (or less) price.

Draft picks are overvalued in pick for player trades. That is why Boldin can be had for a 6th, Santonio Holmes can be had for a 5th, Ochocinco for a 5th and a 6th. Basically, for a 3rd Round Pick, there are a large, large amount of WR's available for that price who are better than Sanders.
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:



Draft picks are overvalued in pick for player trades. That is why Boldin can be had for a 6th, Santonio Holmes can be had for a 5th, Ochocinco for a 5th and a 6th. Basically, for a 3rd Round Pick, there are a large, large amount of WR's available for that price who are better than Sanders.


1) Boldin is oldish and his salary is high. Baltimore had to move the player to get cap room. This was a timing issue not a value issue. See how Mike Vrabel was actually worth less than zero in the Matt Cassel trade.

2) Santonio Holmes was being a pain in the [inappropriate/removed]. Pittsburgh had no leverage and no one else wanted Holmes.

3) Ocho Cinco was also being a pain in the [inappropriate/removed].

Your logic so far has basically been comparing fellows that are obnoxious/old/overpaid to fellows who have towed the team line and can play football. This is incorrect.

If you could find an actual legitimate comparison I'm all ears.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:



Draft picks are overvalued in pick for player trades. That is why Boldin can be had for a 6th, Santonio Holmes can be had for a 5th, Ochocinco for a 5th and a 6th. Basically, for a 3rd Round Pick, there are a large, large amount of WR's available for that price who are better than Sanders.


1) Boldin is oldish and his salary is high. Baltimore had to move the player to get cap room. This was a timing issue not a value issue. See how Mike Vrabel was actually worth less than zero in the Matt Cassel trade.

2) Santonio Holmes was being a pain in the [inappropriate/removed]. Pittsburgh had no leverage and no one else wanted Holmes.

3) Ocho Cinco was also being a pain in the [inappropriate/removed].

Your logic so far has basically been comparing fellows that are obnoxious/old/overpaid to fellows who have towed the team line and can play football. This is incorrect.

If you could find an actual legitimate comparison I'm all ears.


I hear the Eagles want rid of Maclin, he is a much better player than Sanders and could probably be had for less than a 3rd Round Pick. Clearly you'd rather go with the lesser player just because those I mentioned were getting old, needed to be paid, or were a pain. I don't know. I just don't think Sanders is worth a 3rd, he's 26, he's not exactly oozing with potential, he's not a legit #1.

Just a 'meh' signing when other trade possibilities are out there. Are you saying Maclin, Austin, Britt and others wouldn't be available for a 3rd and are better than Sanders? or that DHB or Titus Young or somebody like that who are free (and would cost less in contract) would be a worse option?
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Grachuus


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:


I hear the Eagles want rid of Maclin, he is a much better player than Sanders and could probably be had for less than a 3rd Round Pick. Clearly you'd rather go with the lesser player just because those I mentioned were getting old, needed to be paid, or were a pain. I don't know. I just don't think Sanders is worth a 3rd, he's 26, he's not exactly oozing with potential, he's not a legit #1.

Just a 'meh' signing when other trade possibilities are out there. Are you saying Maclin, Austin, Britt and others wouldn't be available for a 3rd and are better than Sanders? or that DHB or Titus Young or somebody like that who are free (and would cost less in contract) would be a worse option?


You're honestly bringing up Titus Young as some legitimate candidate? Honestly. I meant it when I said it. Find a legitimate scenario and I'm all ears.


Just because someone is listed at a position doesn't mean the Patriots believe he will succeed in the system.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:


I hear the Eagles want rid of Maclin, he is a much better player than Sanders and could probably be had for less than a 3rd Round Pick. Clearly you'd rather go with the lesser player just because those I mentioned were getting old, needed to be paid, or were a pain. I don't know. I just don't think Sanders is worth a 3rd, he's 26, he's not exactly oozing with potential, he's not a legit #1.

Just a 'meh' signing when other trade possibilities are out there. Are you saying Maclin, Austin, Britt and others wouldn't be available for a 3rd and are better than Sanders? or that DHB or Titus Young or somebody like that who are free (and would cost less in contract) would be a worse option?


You're honestly bringing up Titus Young as some legitimate candidate? Honestly. I meant it when I said it. Find a legitimate scenario and I'm all ears.


Just because someone is listed at a position doesn't mean the Patriots believe he will succeed in the system.


Come on man, its not like Emmanuel Sanders is the only legitimate option out there. In terms of pure WR for WR argument, Sanders is better than Young, but in terms of value (ie. not giving up a pick, or making an offer the Steelers cannot match) their validity as an option isn't as clear cut. And for the record, no, I do not see Young as a legitimate option, it was a generic young, FA WR name I just threw in. Still no mention of Maclin or DHB though? You've ignored those options I've presented you.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:


I hear the Eagles want rid of Maclin, he is a much better player than Sanders and could probably be had for less than a 3rd Round Pick. Clearly you'd rather go with the lesser player just because those I mentioned were getting old, needed to be paid, or were a pain. I don't know. I just don't think Sanders is worth a 3rd, he's 26, he's not exactly oozing with potential, he's not a legit #1.

Just a 'meh' signing when other trade possibilities are out there. Are you saying Maclin, Austin, Britt and others wouldn't be available for a 3rd and are better than Sanders? or that DHB or Titus Young or somebody like that who are free (and would cost less in contract) would be a worse option?


You're honestly bringing up Titus Young as some legitimate candidate? Honestly. I meant it when I said it. Find a legitimate scenario and I'm all ears.


Just because someone is listed at a position doesn't mean the Patriots believe he will succeed in the system.


Come on man, its not like Emmanuel Sanders is the only legitimate option out there. In terms of pure WR for WR argument, Sanders is better than Young, but in terms of value (ie. not giving up a pick, or making an offer the Steelers cannot match) their validity as an option isn't as clear cut. And for the record, no, I do not see Young as a legitimate option, it was a generic young, FA WR name I just threw in. Still no mention of Maclin or DHB though? You've ignored those options I've presented you.


DHB is such a great option he's unsigned. Maclin has had enough rumors swirling around him to greatly disturb a single piece of paper. I hadn't bothered to dignify every one of your schemes with a response because they don't merit them. If you'd try to actually compare apples to each other you'd know that the price for Sanders really isn't terrible for a productive useful player.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
Grachuus wrote:
TomRalph wrote:


I hear the Eagles want rid of Maclin, he is a much better player than Sanders and could probably be had for less than a 3rd Round Pick. Clearly you'd rather go with the lesser player just because those I mentioned were getting old, needed to be paid, or were a pain. I don't know. I just don't think Sanders is worth a 3rd, he's 26, he's not exactly oozing with potential, he's not a legit #1.

Just a 'meh' signing when other trade possibilities are out there. Are you saying Maclin, Austin, Britt and others wouldn't be available for a 3rd and are better than Sanders? or that DHB or Titus Young or somebody like that who are free (and would cost less in contract) would be a worse option?


You're honestly bringing up Titus Young as some legitimate candidate? Honestly. I meant it when I said it. Find a legitimate scenario and I'm all ears.


Just because someone is listed at a position doesn't mean the Patriots believe he will succeed in the system.


Come on man, its not like Emmanuel Sanders is the only legitimate option out there. In terms of pure WR for WR argument, Sanders is better than Young, but in terms of value (ie. not giving up a pick, or making an offer the Steelers cannot match) their validity as an option isn't as clear cut. And for the record, no, I do not see Young as a legitimate option, it was a generic young, FA WR name I just threw in. Still no mention of Maclin or DHB though? You've ignored those options I've presented you.


DHB is such a great option he's unsigned. Maclin has had enough rumors swirling around him to greatly disturb a single piece of paper. I hadn't bothered to dignify every one of your schemes with a response because they don't merit them. If you'd try to actually compare apples to each other you'd know that the price for Sanders really isn't terrible for a productive useful player.


You're just being facetious. I'm sure Vollmer sucks too, he's still unsigned, Asomugha too? Charles Woodson? Yeah, anyone can play those games.

I don't understand what you're asking for either. Are you asking me to name WR's who would display greater or equal value to that of Emmanuel Sanders? If so, that is what I have provided; Britt, Austin, Maclin, DHB etc. are good WR's who could provide an impact similar to that of Sanders at an equal or better price. Perhaps we don't see eye to eye on that, but so be it.

For the record, I like Sanders, I just feel that the price we would have to pay could be used on a better WR or elsewhere.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:

If everyone is so OK with giving up a 3rd Round Pick for a WR, why don't we explore options like Kenny Britt, Miles Austin, Jeremy Maclin etc. All of which are better than Sanders and are more proven and could be had for the same (or less) price.


You think Miles Austin or Jeremy Maclin could be had for a late 3rd round pick? Really? I haven't seen anything to suggest that their respective teams are looking to dump them cheaply.

Britt might be had that cheaply, but I don't think the Titans are in a rush to move him right now (i.e. maybe in camp or at cutdown). If they were so fed up as to take such a low price, he'd probably have been gone by now. Similarly, if he were available for such a low price, one would think Belichick - if interested in taking on such a turd like Britt - would have already kicked the tires.

The difference here is that we have no idea if those guys are available for a 3rd round pick. I'd think Austin and Maclin are almost certainly not. We do know that Sanders is available for a 3rd round pick (plus contract). That's the difference. It's easy to say "why don't the Pats go out and get this better player for a cheaper price" but if the player truly is both better and cheaper, I would think the Pats would be exploring those options. So either:

1. Cheaper/better options don't exist with the frequency you suggest

2. The Pats prefer to settle for worse and more expensive options.

I tend to trust the Pats FO and thus gravitate towards the former.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just throwing a name into the mix as far as WRs go: there's some talk from Titans fans that Nate Washington might be cut as a cap casualty.

I see where Tom is coming from here - somehow a third for Sanders feels like a lot, but if there really were cheaper options out there you have to believe that BB is not taking them for good reason.

I wouldn't trade a third for Britt, for example, guys always injured or in jail. Or both.
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