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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draftguru1234 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
What we need is a Derrick Mason type IMO... a guy that can get himself open with superb route running. That or a redzone threat that has some size/explosiveness to him, with nice hands, that can really be a factor for us when we're close to the goal line. Other than Pitta, we don't really have a tall guy- maybe Streeter if he develops. Torrey has a great vertical for those situations, but isn't the physical explosive threat that's ideal for those situations.

And DHB doesn't really solve either of those WR needs, so I'm not really a fan of pursuing him at any particular value. If we did, I wouldn't hate the move- I suppose. Just seems like an unnecessary luxury.


Exactly, but idk what kind of guy is out there that we could sign to fulfill that kind of role, however...

There are some guys in the draft who could fulfill that role.


That's going to be really tricky because they'd have to be later round guys or we'd have to trade up to get them. Everything I would guess would point to us going heavy defense (ILB, S) in the first few rounds.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually now that I think about, what about Greg Jennings? The market is obviously soft for him and he's NOT going to be able to get a high contract from anyone at this point I don't think.

I think it would be smart for Ozzie to try to make a play for him. He's quick, runs great routes, is a legit #1 WR and we can probably get him for pretty cheap.

Thoughts?
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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draftguru1234


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Actually now that I think about, what about Greg Jennings? The market is obviously soft for him and he's NOT going to be able to get a high contract from anyone at this point I don't think.

I think it would be smart for Ozzie to try to make a play for him. He's quick, runs great routes, is a legit #1 WR and we can probably get him for pretty cheap.

Thoughts?

He wont get V-Jax money but he'll still be above our price range. Probably ends up getting 7-8 mil per at least.

I wouldn't mind someone like Woods. He might even be there at 64, and fills the Mason role perfectly.
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bmorecareful


Joined: 09 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Actually now that I think about, what about Greg Jennings? The market is obviously soft for him and he's NOT going to be able to get a high contract from anyone at this point I don't think.

I think it would be smart for Ozzie to try to make a play for him. He's quick, runs great routes, is a legit #1 WR and we can probably get him for pretty cheap.

Thoughts?


I would love to get Jennings but I just don't think Ozzie plans on handing out anymore big contracts this offseason. I hope I'm wrong but unless Ozzie already had Jennings on his radar I don't think the slow market changes anything. ILB WR OT and S not to mention OLB and DL depth smh we have to attack some of these needs in free agency. Canty was good start hopefully we expand on that in the coming weeks
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Baltimore Pride


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 2548
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Actually now that I think about, what about Greg Jennings? The market is obviously soft for him and he's NOT going to be able to get a high contract from anyone at this point I don't think.

I think it would be smart for Ozzie to try to make a play for him. He's quick, runs great routes, is a legit #1 WR and we can probably get him for pretty cheap.

Thoughts?
I thought about it too and would love it, but I don't think we can afford what he wants. GB apparently has a 10mil/yr offer on the table for him and the Vikings have been meeting with him the past few days as well.

Not to mention we're in cap hell until Boldin gets back from Africa and we're no longer shouldering his cap space. Even then its not like we'll have much to throw around,

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1563897-ravens-2013-salary-situation-breaking-down-baltimores-current-cap-status

More than likely if we sign any WR in FA they would have to come cheap, especially since we'll also have to make another signing or two that can address other concerns as well.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baltimore Pride wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Actually now that I think about, what about Greg Jennings? The market is obviously soft for him and he's NOT going to be able to get a high contract from anyone at this point I don't think.

I think it would be smart for Ozzie to try to make a play for him. He's quick, runs great routes, is a legit #1 WR and we can probably get him for pretty cheap.

Thoughts?
I thought about it too and would love it, but I don't think we can afford what he wants. GB apparently has a 10mil/yr offer on the table for him and the Vikings have been meeting with him the past few days as well.

Not to mention we're in cap hell until Boldin gets back from Africa and we're no longer shouldering his cap space. Even then its not like we'll have much to throw around,

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1563897-ravens-2013-salary-situation-breaking-down-baltimores-current-cap-status

More than likely if we sign any WR in FA they would have to come cheap, especially since we'll also have to make another signing or two that can address other concerns as well.


After the Boldin trade is completed the Ravens will have $8,334,455 in cap space (assuming no other moves are made until then). That includes tendering every EFA and the Rule of 51. If Baltimore was looking for a WR on the free agent market one of my preferred targets is Brandon Gibson. I don't think he's going to get much money and he would be a nice compliment to the other receivers on the team in my opinion.
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Baltimore Pride


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
After the Boldin trade is completed the Ravens will have $8,334,455 in cap space (assuming no other moves are made until then). That includes tendering every EFA and the Rule of 51. If Baltimore was looking for a WR on the free agent market one of my preferred targets is Brandon Gibson. I don't think he's going to get much money and he would be a nice compliment to the other receivers on the team in my opinion.
Wouldn't mind Gibson at all. Hes talented enough to fit into that #2 role and still pretty young, should also be more affordable than Amendola was.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baltimore Pride wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
After the Boldin trade is completed the Ravens will have $8,334,455 in cap space (assuming no other moves are made until then). That includes tendering every EFA and the Rule of 51. If Baltimore was looking for a WR on the free agent market one of my preferred targets is Brandon Gibson. I don't think he's going to get much money and he would be a nice compliment to the other receivers on the team in my opinion.
Wouldn't mind Gibson at all. Hes talented enough to fit into that #2 role and still pretty young, should also be more affordable than Amendola was.

I'd rather we just stick to what we have and see what we've got. How often do FA WR ever work out for teams anyway?

I'd rather just see if our in-house guys like Doss/Reed/Streeter etc... have anything to provide than go the FA route. I think we'd be better served spending our money to upgrade the defense and then draft a WR early if a good one falls... at least then we could get a guy with the perfect skillset for what we're hoping to implore and we'd have him at about as cheap a price as you can ask for with the guy being on a rookie deal.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Former Rams WR Brandon Gibson agreed to terms with Dolphins. Miami active.


Sigh...

diamondbull424 wrote:
I'd rather we just stick to what we have and see what we've got. How often do FA WR ever work out for teams anyway?

I'd rather just see if our in-house guys like Doss/Reed/Streeter etc... have anything to provide than go the FA route. I think we'd be better served spending our money to upgrade the defense and then draft a WR early if a good one falls... at least then we could get a guy with the perfect skillset for what we're hoping to implore and we'd have him at about as cheap a price as you can ask for with the guy being on a rookie deal.


You can sign a guy in free agency that fits what you want for your team too. It's not restricted to just the draft. I'd rather they spend their money on offense and re-build the defense through the draft.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
Quote:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Former Rams WR Brandon Gibson agreed to terms with Dolphins. Miami active.


Sigh...

diamondbull424 wrote:
I'd rather we just stick to what we have and see what we've got. How often do FA WR ever work out for teams anyway?

I'd rather just see if our in-house guys like Doss/Reed/Streeter etc... have anything to provide than go the FA route. I think we'd be better served spending our money to upgrade the defense and then draft a WR early if a good one falls... at least then we could get a guy with the perfect skillset for what we're hoping to implore and we'd have him at about as cheap a price as you can ask for with the guy being on a rookie deal.


You can sign a guy in free agency that fits what you want for your team too. It's not restricted to just the draft. I'd rather they spend their money on offense and re-build the defense through the draft.

You can, but between the draft and FA, the WR position is usually a crapshoot most of the time. So I'd MUCH rather use the draft because even if the WR fails... how much is he really going to cost you in the end? a guy like Gibson may not go for much, but I'd be willing to bet that he'd go for much more than what we paid Torrey on his rookie deal... I mean Torrey is getting paid on average 845k for his production on his deal, I'd be willing to bet that Gibson signs a deal paying him AT LEAST 3x that amount, probably more like 4x that amount. Amendola, the other guy some speculated we would've been interested in... 6.65x that of Smith's rookie deal.

Sure FA is a way to upgrade the WR position, but with how tricky the WR position appears to be, I'd much rather spend a fraction of the cost with a draft pick option that is a much MUCH safer investment.

Defense, it seems, also has a higher rate of success with both FAs and in the draft. So while again, the draft is a safer investment, the difference in the safety of the investment between FA and the draft leans much much more favorably to defense IMO. And by defense, I'm more so referring to front 7 players, not the backend guys.
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Baltimore Pride


Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
Quote:
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Former Rams WR Brandon Gibson agreed to terms with Dolphins. Miami active.


Sigh...

diamondbull424 wrote:
I'd rather we just stick to what we have and see what we've got. How often do FA WR ever work out for teams anyway?

I'd rather just see if our in-house guys like Doss/Reed/Streeter etc... have anything to provide than go the FA route. I think we'd be better served spending our money to upgrade the defense and then draft a WR early if a good one falls... at least then we could get a guy with the perfect skillset for what we're hoping to implore and we'd have him at about as cheap a price as you can ask for with the guy being on a rookie deal.


You can sign a guy in free agency that fits what you want for your team too. It's not restricted to just the draft. I'd rather they spend their money on offense and re-build the defense through the draft.

You can, but between the draft and FA, the WR position is usually a crapshoot most of the time. So I'd MUCH rather use the draft because even if the WR fails... how much is he really going to cost you in the end? a guy like Gibson may not go for much, but I'd be willing to bet that he'd go for much more than what we paid Torrey on his rookie deal... I mean Torrey is getting paid on average 845k for his production on his deal, I'd be willing to bet that Gibson signs a deal paying him AT LEAST 3x that amount, probably more like 4x that amount. Amendola, the other guy some speculated we would've been interested in... 6.65x that of Smith's rookie deal.

Sure FA is a way to upgrade the WR position, but with how tricky the WR position appears to be, I'd much rather spend a fraction of the cost with a draft pick option that is a much MUCH safer investment.
Its true that its a safer investment to draft someone and merely be on the hook for that rookie salary but despite what most may think we actually have a decent track record of signing starting WR, Ismail, Mason and Boldin have all been solid starters and productive. On the flip-side we've kinda 'screwed the pooch' on signing depth/slot/role receivers, with players like Evans, Stallworth, TJ Housh. Regardless I have confidence that Ozzie could find us a decent enough WR, without breaking the bank, outside of the draft.

Really though I'm content with either option we go with, but considering our needs on defense, filling that WR void left by Boldin via FA would be very appealing for me. That way we could build our defense back up via the draft.
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draftguru1234


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually tired of going the FA route for WR's.

I much rather prefer the draft. Especially with how much depth the class has this year imo.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baltimore Pride wrote:
Its true that its a safer investment to draft someone and merely be on the hook for that rookie salary but despite what most may think we actually have a decent track record of signing starting WR, Ismail, Mason and Boldin have all been solid starters and productive. On the flip-side we've kinda 'screwed the pooch' on signing depth/slot/role receivers, with players like Evans, Stallworth, TJ Housh. Regardless I have confidence that Ozzie could find us a decent enough WR, without breaking the bank, outside of the draft.

Really though I'm content with either option we go with, but considering our needs on defense, filling that WR void left by Boldin via FA would be very appealing for me. That way we could build our defense back up via the draft.

And that's my point. The WR position is very much a crapshoot either way... it's probably the position that is the least safe out of FA and the draft... but of the two evils, if you can pay a DL.. 2 yrs/5m or you could pay a WR 2 yrs/5m... I'd take signing that DL every time as it's a higher success rate.

And sure the draft is equally a crap shoot for the position at least if we draft a bust at WR, it's not going to set us back financially speaking. Any FA or draft bust will be a wasted resource, but my point is the draft presents the lesser of the wasted resources.

And simply put, like draftguru1234 said, I'm simply tired of going the FA route. We need more home grown options. If we don't believe our current young guys are good enough... than perhaps we need to go back to the well and spend another high pick on a WR in this deep WR class... specifically speaking, I want DeAndre Hopkins with our first pick at this point.
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Baltimore Pride


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
Baltimore Pride wrote:
Its true that its a safer investment to draft someone and merely be on the hook for that rookie salary but despite what most may think we actually have a decent track record of signing starting WR, Ismail, Mason and Boldin have all been solid starters and productive. On the flip-side we've kinda 'screwed the pooch' on signing depth/slot/role receivers, with players like Evans, Stallworth, TJ Housh. Regardless I have confidence that Ozzie could find us a decent enough WR, without breaking the bank, outside of the draft.

Really though I'm content with either option we go with, but considering our needs on defense, filling that WR void left by Boldin via FA would be very appealing for me. That way we could build our defense back up via the draft.

And that's my point. The WR position is very much a crapshoot either way... it's probably the position that is the least safe out of FA and the draft... but of the two evils, if you can pay a DL.. 2 yrs/5m or you could pay a WR 2 yrs/5m... I'd take signing that DL every time as it's a higher success rate.

And sure the draft is equally a crap shoot for the position at least if we draft a bust at WR, it's not going to set us back financially speaking. Any FA or draft bust will be a wasted resource, but my point is the draft presents the lesser of the wasted resources.

And simply put, like draftguru1234 said, I'm simply tired of going the FA route. We need more home grown options. If we don't believe our current young guys are good enough... than perhaps we need to go back to the well and spend another high pick on a WR in this deep WR class... specifically speaking, I want DeAndre Hopkins with our first pick at this point.
I'm tired of it too but given our needs at the moment, if we have the shot to address WR via FA and save the draft for other glaring needs. I'll take it.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
You can, but between the draft and FA, the WR position is usually a crapshoot most of the time. So I'd MUCH rather use the draft because even if the WR fails... how much is he really going to cost you in the end? a guy like Gibson may not go for much, but I'd be willing to bet that he'd go for much more than what we paid Torrey on his rookie deal... I mean Torrey is getting paid on average 845k for his production on his deal, I'd be willing to bet that Gibson signs a deal paying him AT LEAST 3x that amount, probably more like 4x that amount. Amendola, the other guy some speculated we would've been interested in... 6.65x that of Smith's rookie deal.

Sure FA is a way to upgrade the WR position, but with how tricky the WR position appears to be, I'd much rather spend a fraction of the cost with a draft pick option that is a much MUCH safer investment.

Defense, it seems, also has a higher rate of success with both FAs and in the draft. So while again, the draft is a safer investment, the difference in the safety of the investment between FA and the draft leans much much more favorably to defense IMO. And by defense, I'm more so referring to front 7 players, not the backend guys.


If a team signs a low/mid-level free agent and he busts it won't hurt the team too much. The same can't be said if you draft a guy with a higher pick. That's how organizations like the Ravens are able to keep on building and sustaining their teams. Sure they're going to be paid more but a higher draft pick is so much more valuable than the extra cap space it takes to sign a free agent as opposed to what a rookie makes.

It's different if you're talking about guys like Jennings or Wallace who got paid quite a bit but that's not what I'm advocating. If Gibson got about $4 million a year I wouldn't really have wanted him at that price either but that's not too bad. I don't think the WR position is particularly risky if a team has a good QB in place.

The defense is what needs to be focused on for the draft in my opinion. There are a few WR prospects I like but the depth and quality of the defensive prospects should allow the Ravens to get a good one in each of the first three rounds. LT is a need too but like I've said before I don't really like the draft class for that position (where Baltimore will be drafting at least).
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