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2013 Panthers pre-draft thread
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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Location: FSU: Go Noles
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
According to the draft rumors thread, we're reportedly down to Richardson, Austin, Vaccaro, and Rhodes.

Out of those 4, I really hope it is Austin or Rhodes. No idea what anyone sees in Vaccaro that we couldn't just get in the 2nd. While I don't really want Austin, he'd add a lot more to our team than Vaccaro. Ideally, out of those 4, I'd go Rhodes. Star potential.

FWIW, the reason I don't really want Austin is because I don't think he's a fit for Cam, not anything to do with his talent. Talent wise, I think he's a stud and will be nasty in the slot.

Why not Patterson? Upsetting.
Austin is a slot WR.
Richardson is a UT.
We signed like 3447864986 corners.
Vaccaro we could get in Elam/Swearinger/Cyprien later.
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james.mcmurry13


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so putting the most favorable rumors together for us:

1. KC-Joeckel
2. JAX-Fisher
3. OAK-Floyd
4. AZ-Johnson
5. DET-Ansah
6. CLE-Milliner
7. PHI-Jordan
8. BUF-Barkley
9. NYJ-Smith
10. TEN-Rhodes
11. SD-Cooper
12. MIA-Mingo
13. NYJ-Austin
14. CAR-Lotulelei

Surely something would be different in there, but I'm slowly starting to see the mirage that could be 13 players going before Star.
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panther dude


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:

Austin is a slot WR.

We signed like 3447864986 corners.


Austin could be a dynamic playmaker for us in the slot. He would add more fire power. I don't see the problem with adding more weapons.

And quality over quantity. We signed a bunch, but how good is that group right now? Rhodes would definitely improve us in the secondary.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
Austin is a slot WR.


He is a playmaker regardless of where he is on the field. I don't see why it'd matter if he was a slot receiver when you consider the fact that Cruz, Welker, Cobb, and Jennings at times primarily play in the slot and look at the kind of production they put up. The slot receiver has become a lot more important in the NFL. Besides, I don't see what prevents him from having an impact on the outside like DeSean Jackson has had.

I don't see why Richardson being a UT is a bad thing. I don't want him or anything, but Edwards shouldn't prevent us from drafting someone we think is going to be great just because he plays UT. And us signing a lot of depth at DBs shouldn't prevent us from drafting someone like Xavier Rhodes, who the more I watch, the more I come away impressed with. Terrific size and athleticism. Since we play a lot of man I believe, I think he'd be a great fit here and could push to become an immediate Day 1 starter.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, if Star falls to us, it wouldn't surprise me if we passed on him but I'd be kind of frustrated if we did. I think we'd pass on him mainly because I'm not sure he is the kind of defensive tackle Rivera prefers for his defense - I think he likes his interior guys more in the mold of Sharrif Floyd. But Star would solidify this defensive line. Star flashes Ngata potential when you watch him play and you combine that with Johnson and Hardy? You've gone one hell of a defensive line for a very long time assuming we can re-sign Hardy.
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Toughguy77


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1933
Location: South Cackalack
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
According to the draft rumors thread, we're reportedly down to Richardson, Austin, Vaccaro, and Rhodes.

Out of those 4, I really hope it is Austin or Rhodes. No idea what anyone sees in Vaccaro that we couldn't just get in the 2nd. While I don't really want Austin, he'd add a lot more to our team than Vaccaro. Ideally, out of those 4, I'd go Rhodes. Star potential.

FWIW, the reason I don't really want Austin is because I don't think he's a fit for Cam, not anything to do with his talent. Talent wise, I think he's a stud and will be nasty in the slot.

Why not Patterson? Upsetting.
Austin is a slot WR.
Richardson is a UT.
We signed like 3447864986 corners.
Vaccaro we could get in Elam/Swearinger/Cyprien later.

^THIS
Patterson is the answer for us at WR, then we address secondary with Jungle Boi/Elam in the second
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james.mcmurry13


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toughguy77 wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
According to the draft rumors thread, we're reportedly down to Richardson, Austin, Vaccaro, and Rhodes.

Out of those 4, I really hope it is Austin or Rhodes. No idea what anyone sees in Vaccaro that we couldn't just get in the 2nd. While I don't really want Austin, he'd add a lot more to our team than Vaccaro. Ideally, out of those 4, I'd go Rhodes. Star potential.

FWIW, the reason I don't really want Austin is because I don't think he's a fit for Cam, not anything to do with his talent. Talent wise, I think he's a stud and will be nasty in the slot.

Why not Patterson? Upsetting.
Austin is a slot WR.
Richardson is a UT.
We signed like 3447864986 corners.
Vaccaro we could get in Elam/Swearinger/Cyprien later.

^THIS
Patterson is the answer for us at WR, then we address secondary with Jungle Boi/Elam in the second


From everything I'm seeing, Patterson isn't really being considered by many teams in the teens. Obviously that includes us. I'd probably peg him to Minnesota right now, so unless we trade back to the early 20's, its unlikely we'll consider him. I do think he'd be a great option for us though, just isn't in the cards.
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CarolinaRoar


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Okay, so putting the most favorable rumors together for us:

1. KC-Joeckel
2. JAX-Fisher
3. OAK-Floyd
4. AZ-Johnson
5. DET-Ansah
6. CLE-Milliner
7. PHI-Jordan
8. BUF-Barkley
9. NYJ-Smith
10. TEN-Rhodes
11. SD-Cooper
12. MIA-Mingo
13. NYJ-Austin
14. CAR-Lotulelei

Surely something would be different in there, but I'm slowly starting to see the mirage that could be 13 players going before Star.


Yeah, but favorable rumors at this point during draft usually dont happen.
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PantherDE90


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CarolinaRoar wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Okay, so putting the most favorable rumors together for us:

1. KC-Joeckel
2. JAX-Fisher
3. OAK-Floyd
4. AZ-Johnson
5. DET-Ansah
6. CLE-Milliner
7. PHI-Jordan
8. BUF-Barkley
9. NYJ-Smith
10. TEN-Rhodes
11. SD-Cooper
12. MIA-Mingo
13. NYJ-Austin
14. CAR-Lotulelei

Surely something would be different in there, but I'm slowly starting to see the mirage that could be 13 players going before Star.


Yeah, but favorable rumors at this point during draft usually dont happen.


I can't see Star falling that far anyway. I'd love it to happen, it just wont.
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Toughguy77


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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Location: South Cackalack
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Toughguy77 wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
iknowcool wrote:
According to the draft rumors thread, we're reportedly down to Richardson, Austin, Vaccaro, and Rhodes.

Out of those 4, I really hope it is Austin or Rhodes. No idea what anyone sees in Vaccaro that we couldn't just get in the 2nd. While I don't really want Austin, he'd add a lot more to our team than Vaccaro. Ideally, out of those 4, I'd go Rhodes. Star potential.

FWIW, the reason I don't really want Austin is because I don't think he's a fit for Cam, not anything to do with his talent. Talent wise, I think he's a stud and will be nasty in the slot.

Why not Patterson? Upsetting.
Austin is a slot WR.
Richardson is a UT.
We signed like 3447864986 corners.
Vaccaro we could get in Elam/Swearinger/Cyprien later.

^THIS
Patterson is the answer for us at WR, then we address secondary with Jungle Boi/Elam in the second


From everything I'm seeing, Patterson isn't really being considered by many teams in the teens. Obviously that includes us. I'd probably peg him to Minnesota right now, so unless we trade back to the early 20's, its unlikely we'll consider him. I do think he'd be a great option for us though, just isn't in the cards.

Why do you think though? He seems to be one of the most NFL ready WRs imo
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james.mcmurry13


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toughguy77 wrote:
Why do you think though? He seems to be one of the most NFL ready WRs imo


I don't see pro ready in Patterson at all. He can't do anything other than run deep or run a slant right now, though his potential is definitely through the roof. If we're looking for someone pro ready, we should be looking at Keenan Allen or Robert Woods.
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Cypher


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
Panthers11 wrote:
Austin is a slot WR.


He is a playmaker regardless of where he is on the field. I don't see why it'd matter if he was a slot receiver when you consider the fact that Cruz, Welker, Cobb, and Jennings at times primarily play in the slot and look at the kind of production they put up. The slot receiver has become a lot more important in the NFL. Besides, I don't see what prevents him from having an impact on the outside like DeSean Jackson has had.


Aside from the height difference? DeSean has made a career of running by people. That's all he really has. Early on he was pretty fearless across the middle, but after getting smacked around a few times, all that changed. Tavon Austin's best bet to survive this league is as a career slot receiver. On that note, aside from rare occasions where he'll simply run by defenders, I think he'll need far too many touches to be valuable.

In New England it's Welker and Gronk and everyone else pretty much gets the scraps. In NY it's Cruz and Nicks and everyone else pretty much gets the scraps. In GB, Rogers is arguably the best QB in the league in the short-intermediate passing game, which is arguably Cam's weakest asset.

If we draft Tavon, in my eyes, just cut Smitty and Williams on the spot, because there's no way we'd have enough touches to split between Smith, Austin, LaFell, Olsen, Williams, Stewie and Tolbert. Then factor in designed runs for Cam. We saw last year that both backs weren't utilized often enough. Adding a piece like Tavon who needs 6-10 touches a game to consistently have a big impact is just making the mess even worse.

Cam overthrows everyone on the roster as-is. Give me a 6'2+ guy who can go up over a DB and fight for the ball. Austin is 5'8 with a 32 inch vert. He's not going up over anybody.
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CarolinaRoar


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 1554
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PantherDE90 wrote:
CarolinaRoar wrote:
james.mcmurry13 wrote:
Okay, so putting the most favorable rumors together for us:

1. KC-Joeckel
2. JAX-Fisher
3. OAK-Floyd
4. AZ-Johnson
5. DET-Ansah
6. CLE-Milliner
7. PHI-Jordan
8. BUF-Barkley
9. NYJ-Smith
10. TEN-Rhodes
11. SD-Cooper
12. MIA-Mingo
13. NYJ-Austin
14. CAR-Lotulelei

Surely something would be different in there, but I'm slowly starting to see the mirage that could be 13 players going before Star.


Yeah, but favorable rumors at this point during draft usually dont happen.


I can't see Star falling that far anyway. I'd love it to happen, it just wont.


exactly lets not get our hopes up. Its nearly impossible that it will happen. Star, is a star player... they dont fall to 14
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypher wrote:
Aside from the height difference?


And when has DeSean's height ever changed anything for him on a play? He doesn't out-muscle defenders or hardly ever looks to out-jump them, so the height difference doesn't seem to make a difference with him. You don't have to be 6'0 to play on the outside (though yes, it absolutely is beneficial which is why a guy like Green or Jones make for much better outside receivers than a guy like Austin), hence why Smith, Jennings, and Cruz (this past season when Nicks was out) have succeeded on the outside. It helps in redzone situations (which Smith's never been great at) but route running, which Austin showed impressive ability in when you watch him play, is far more important. If Austin continues to grow in that area of the game, he can absolutely make a contribution on the outside.

EDIT - Another example is TY Hilton. He isn't the kind of talent Austin is and yet look at the numbers he put up this past year mainly operating on the outside (from what I remember seeing) as a rookie. Austin will be a better fit for the slot, I agree, but that doesn't mean he won't be able to make an impact on the outside as well.

Quote:
DeSean has made a career of running by people. That's all he really has. Early on he was pretty fearless across the middle, but after getting smacked around a few times, all that changed.


And despite that, according to Eagles fans and from just watching him play, he's a better receiver now than he was then. Jackson's problem was he wasn't a progressed route runner, hence why most of his plays were deep. Austin is definitely ahead of Jackson in that area when D-Jack was coming out of school and still a bit early in his NFL career (and Jackson did pretty well for himself even then). Besides, Austin doesn't just run past people. He did great at WUV with shallows, slants, and outs. There is a reason why Austin had 100+ receptions his past two years at West Virginia. It isn't fair to compare him to just another fast receiver/player. It is what separates him from a guy like LaMichael James. Austin is plenty of tough as well. I sort of hate the comparison because I don't think he's like this guy either but Percy Harvin. Austin blows by people but that doesn't mean all he does is run deep. Really, a good amount of his TDs were just him making plays, not sprinting as far as he can down the field hoping for a pass.

Even so, what is so bad about being "just" a slot receiver? Cruz is primarily a slot receiver and look at his numbers. Cobb was just a slot receiver this past year and look at his numbers. Welker is just a slot receiver and look at his numbers. Jennings played a lot in the slot before in Greenbay and look at his numbers. When did it become so bad to be just a slot receiver? They've had a huge impact as of late and it tells me they are a lot more important than people are saying. They cause mismatches on the field. It is why I've always hoped to see Smith become more of a slot receiver. It'd be difficult for defenses to stop him because some corners who are great on the outside aren't fit to work in the inside (for example, say Xavier Rhodes).

Heck, tight ends don't play on the outside (at least not 90% of the time) and look at the kind of production they put up.

Quote:
If we draft Tavon, in my eyes, just cut Smitty and Williams on the spot, because there's no way we'd have enough touches to split between Smith, Austin, LaFell, Olsen, Williams, Stewie and Tolbert. Then factor in designed runs for Cam. We saw last year that both backs weren't utilized often enough. Adding a piece like Tavon who needs 6-10 touches a game to consistently have a big impact is just making the mess even worse.


Should we just not draft a WR at all then?

Not drafting Austin simply because it'd cause an overflow of offensive playmakers would be a horrible reason, and besides that, it isn't even as if that is applicable for us. Smith is the only playmaking receiver on this team. LaFell is OK but he's merely a possession receiver.

I'm not vouching for us to draft Austin. All I said was between those 4 guys, I'd most definitely prefer him or Rhodes. I actually agree with you that he isn't a fit for how Newton plays the game. But there are some things said about him that are wrong or just seem to be a confusing criticism as I don't see anything wrong with mainly playing in the slot.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG20wQoaies

Most of the plays are him running routes and catching first downs, keeping the chains moving.

Austin is a highlight player. But this guy also had 100+ receptions 2 straight seasons. That isn't someone who just runs by people.

Now, if I did have a concern, it is he'll occasionally let some passes slip by. Otherwise, from all I've seen, he is the majority of the time running the same kind of routes Cruz and Welker run. Unfortunately, highlights do not focus on that and instead focus on what he can do after he catches the ball... like that Texas touchdown where he catches an over the middle, intermediate throw and then somehow breaks away for a touchdown.

Also, one play, near the end of the video shows you the kind of mismatches great slot receivers can cause. Baylor ended up having their MLB on Austin.
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