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Broncos sign former Patriots WR Wes Welker to a 2-year deal
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germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7800
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winder23 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
Winder23 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I was being sarcastic about the Mac thing, 67, just as you were when you said:

broncos67 wrote:
But...but... WELKER IS FROM NEW ENGLAND BURN HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Overall I have my doubts about Gase. Sure this up-tempo thing is a good idea but he has no experience designing game plans and calling plays. Everything looks good on paper but putting it into practice is whole other ball game. He's as green as can be. He is also astoundingly arrogant and I've heard from my source at Dove Valley that he's already rubbed some people the wrong way. Arrogance mixed with inexperience is usually not a good combo.


Plus, I personally don't see how he's rubbing people the wrong way. Seems kinda early in the process...we don't even have a complete offseason gone yet.

Think the coaching staff is on vacation? They're there at Dove Valley every day working on things. And Gase didn't just arrive. Yes his head got bigger when he was promoted but his arrogance has been a problem since he arrived with Mac a few years ago.
A problem with whom? I know you can't or wouldn't want to reveal a source, but is it really a problem? Why promote someone if there is a presumed or assumed problem witht the rest of the staff? Sounds like maybe your source doesn't like him.


This doesn't make sense either. If this is true, shame on John Elway and John Fox. Not Adam Gase.

It seems to me that Adam Gase is getting smeared simply because Josh McDaniels hired him.
Are you reading between the lines again?


For once, maybe.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 18463
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
I mean I guess I just don't necessarily buy it because if he pissed the more important people off he wouldn't be the OC.

Winder23 wrote:
A problem with whom? I know you can't or wouldn't want to reveal a source, but is it really a problem? Why promote someone if there is a presumed or assumed problem witht the rest of the staff? Sounds like maybe your source doesn't like him.

broncos67 wrote:
Yeah that's just ridiculous. First of all, he's Joe Vitt's son in law, and Vitt is pretty well respected, bounty-gate aside. That's just a statement made because you hate McDaniels. We get it. We know he was a bad coach. That doesn't make Matt Russell, Adam Gase, Eric Studesville et al...bad people.

If you had a boss who hired you and then ended up being a disaster, would you expect to also be fired if you were good at your job? I guess this means you won't root for any of the following (because based on your anti-McDaniels logic you shouldn't)- Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Zane Beadles

germ-x wrote:
It seems to me that Adam Gase is getting smeared simply because Josh McDaniels hired him.

Okay I'm going to share a story with you guys and I'm going to be as detailed as possible, without revealing too much, in hopes that you'll believe me.

I had the day off yesterday and decided to head down to Bennett to hang out with a young lady with whom I've been spending time recently. Long story short, she ended up having to work for a few hours longer than she had expected (she works for her family so they can jerk her around in ways that those of who are not employed by relatives aren't). So, after browsing the forum on my iPhone and reading your comments, I decided to see if my friend who works at Dove Valley was to down to meet up for a few beers. I had a few hours to kill anyway so I decided I would take the 40 minute drive down I-70 and the tollway to Centennial.

My friend and I met at a chain restaurant/bar in the Arapahoe Crossing shopping center, 10 minutes from Dove Valley. We had a few brews and I asked him some questions about what he had told me about Adam Gase. He said Gase is a good guy, he works hard, he's very smart, he knows football and he loves the Broncos. He also said that he is arrogant, has something of an abrasive personality and a "my way or the highway" way of doing things. I asked if that reminded him of Mac; he said, yes, he very much "Josh Jr." I think all of us know that those traits listed above - both positive and negative - apply to Mac (save love for the Broncos, Mac only loves the Pats). Gase isn't widely disliked or anything similar to Mac; he's not dividing the team, he's not creating paranoia at Dove Valley, he's not playing Jeckel-and-Hyde type games with people. He knows his place but is "very arrogant" and "has a big head." Apparently, after a few radio interviews right after his promotion that went poorly (and the radio hosts were less than shy about expressing their displeasure with Gase's performance in said interviews), he "went off" blaming others and making very colorful comments about some in the media.

I asked if from an Xs and Os perspective Gase was similar to Mac, he said he wasn't 100% sure (as my friend is not involved in the minutia of offensive game-planning) but that the two share a similar philosophy of offensive football and a lot of the same ideas. The fast-paced offense we've been hearing about since Gase was promoted seems to jive with this.

My friend likes Adam Gase. He thinks he will be a good offensive coordinator and went so far as to say that he has the makings of a future head coach. But he also said he expects some bumps in the road and some growing pains. (For the record, my friend was a supporter of Mac but, after all the turmoil, understood that a change had to be made). That confirmed my initial concerns about hiring Gase, who had zero experience and will be learning on the job.

My friend and I also discussed a lot of other Broncos stuff; the Gase stuff was actually only about 10% of our overall conversation and about 1/3 of our football conversation. But I'm not going to get into those things right now. Wink
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^Well, at least McDaniels is a pretty good OC. That is good, right, in terms of the Gase/McDaniels comparison.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^Well, at least McDaniels is a pretty good OC. That is good, right, in terms of the Gase/McDaniels comparison.


No he isn't. He was a terrible play caller here and was an even worse disaster with the Rams.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^Well, at least McDaniels is a pretty good OC. That is good, right, in terms of the Gase/McDaniels comparison.

Well, he's a pretty good OC when Tom Brady is his QB. Here and in St Louis he was a disaster. The Rams' offense in 2011 was one of the worst in the history of the NFL.

I guess I can share my opinions now rather than just report what I was told.

I don't really care what Gase's personality is like; John Fox will keep him in line. But his arrogance could really pose a problem. Remember when Mac refused to make adjustments at halftime because he believed in his initial game plan? Will Gase do that?

We signed Welker, we want to use a fast-paced offense, we've ignored the RB position and it was reported that the team is happy with McGahee/Moreno/Hillman/Ball. From this, it seems that the offensive philosophy Gase wants to use seems could be problematic - dink-and-dunk passing and no running game; we saw first-hand how that worked in 2009-10. McCoy valued balance, will Gase?

Will he learn from his mistakes or will he just stick to his guns because he's predisposed to trust himself? Will he be able to adapt the offense when defenses shut it down or do something unexpected? Remember in the Tampa Bay game this year, they lined up in base set and never moved? That confused us but McCoy adapted after two series and we went on a roll. What would Gase do in a similar situation?

There's a lot to be concerned about here IMO.
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AntiSuperstar


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
From this, it seems that the offensive philosophy Gase wants to use seems could be problematic - dink-and-dunk passing and no running game; we saw first-hand how that worked in 2009-10. McCoy valued balance, will Gase?


McCoy didn't value "balance" until we "adapted" the offense to what Manning was comfortable with another words copying the Colts offense where Manning liked to audible to runs.

When Kyle Orton was the Quarterback McCoy ran the exact same offense Josh McDaniels did, to horrible results. Furthermore I still assert that the primary reason for the team's improvement after Tebow(which didn't even start immediately, remember the first two games McCoy, doing something I doubt even McDaniels would pull, tried to run the same offense with Tebow too, and it resulted of course in some awful offensive performances including the Lions game which was the worst loss of the season) became the starter was because we moved away from that offense and became the most conservative team in the NFL. Which is the primary reason we won games that year, because we were conservative.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what Manning sees from defenses in the first half, sets everything the Broncos will do in the second half. He is the best at figuring out the defensive game plan, so you are right AAA, I hope Gase is privy to how smart Manning is, and if that means the Broncos will to go from a passing game to more ball control, running game, then I hope Gase will make that move.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I wanted to see us hire an experienced OC, let's give the guy a chance. His superiors know exactly what they're looking for an I'm inclined to trust the judgement of messrs Elway and Fox.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Broncos should be uptempo. Gase would be using Manning, Welker, and et al correctly...especially at altitude.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I mean I guess I just don't necessarily buy it because if he pissed the more important people off he wouldn't be the OC.

Winder23 wrote:
A problem with whom? I know you can't or wouldn't want to reveal a source, but is it really a problem? Why promote someone if there is a presumed or assumed problem witht the rest of the staff? Sounds like maybe your source doesn't like him.

broncos67 wrote:
Yeah that's just ridiculous. First of all, he's Joe Vitt's son in law, and Vitt is pretty well respected, bounty-gate aside. That's just a statement made because you hate McDaniels. We get it. We know he was a bad coach. That doesn't make Matt Russell, Adam Gase, Eric Studesville et al...bad people.

If you had a boss who hired you and then ended up being a disaster, would you expect to also be fired if you were good at your job? I guess this means you won't root for any of the following (because based on your anti-McDaniels logic you shouldn't)- Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Zane Beadles

germ-x wrote:
It seems to me that Adam Gase is getting smeared simply because Josh McDaniels hired him.

Okay I'm going to share a story with you guys and I'm going to be as detailed as possible, without revealing too much, in hopes that you'll believe me.

I had the day off yesterday and decided to head down to Bennett to hang out with a young lady with whom I've been spending time recently. Long story short, she ended up having to work for a few hours longer than she had expected (she works for her family so they can jerk her around in ways that those of who are not employed by relatives aren't). So, after browsing the forum on my iPhone and reading your comments, I decided to see if my friend who works at Dove Valley was to down to meet up for a few beers. I had a few hours to kill anyway so I decided I would take the 40 minute drive down I-70 and the tollway to Centennial.

My friend and I met at a chain restaurant/bar in the Arapahoe Crossing shopping center, 10 minutes from Dove Valley. We had a few brews and I asked him some questions about what he had told me about Adam Gase. He said Gase is a good guy, he works hard, he's very smart, he knows football and he loves the Broncos. He also said that he is arrogant, has something of an abrasive personality and a "my way or the highway" way of doing things. I asked if that reminded him of Mac; he said, yes, he very much "Josh Jr." I think all of us know that those traits listed above - both positive and negative - apply to Mac (save love for the Broncos, Mac only loves the Pats). Gase isn't widely disliked or anything similar to Mac; he's not dividing the team, he's not creating paranoia at Dove Valley, he's not playing Jeckel-and-Hyde type games with people. He knows his place but is "very arrogant" and "has a big head." Apparently, after a few radio interviews right after his promotion that went poorly (and the radio hosts were less than shy about expressing their displeasure with Gase's performance in said interviews), he "went off" blaming others and making very colorful comments about some in the media.

I asked if from an Xs and Os perspective Gase was similar to Mac, he said he wasn't 100% sure (as my friend is not involved in the minutia of offensive game-planning) but that the two share a similar philosophy of offensive football and a lot of the same ideas. The fast-paced offense we've been hearing about since Gase was promoted seems to jive with this.

My friend likes Adam Gase. He thinks he will be a good offensive coordinator and went so far as to say that he has the makings of a future head coach. But he also said he expects some bumps in the road and some growing pains. (For the record, my friend was a supporter of Mac but, after all the turmoil, understood that a change had to be made). That confirmed my initial concerns about hiring Gase, who had zero experience and will be learning on the job.

My friend and I also discussed a lot of other Broncos stuff; the Gase stuff was actually only about 10% of our overall conversation and about 1/3 of our football conversation. But I'm not going to get into those things right now. Wink


Good post AAA. Nice hearing some inside stuff. IMO I'm not too worried about a coach with an ego. They all have them as do players, GM's, etc.
Kinda comes with job.

I'll bet it's pretty toned down when he deals with PM/Fox/Elway and many others. Is it possible it just shows when he deals with people outside the direct NFL family?
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I mean I guess I just don't necessarily buy it because if he pissed the more important people off he wouldn't be the OC.

Winder23 wrote:
A problem with whom? I know you can't or wouldn't want to reveal a source, but is it really a problem? Why promote someone if there is a presumed or assumed problem witht the rest of the staff? Sounds like maybe your source doesn't like him.

broncos67 wrote:
Yeah that's just ridiculous. First of all, he's Joe Vitt's son in law, and Vitt is pretty well respected, bounty-gate aside. That's just a statement made because you hate McDaniels. We get it. We know he was a bad coach. That doesn't make Matt Russell, Adam Gase, Eric Studesville et al...bad people.

If you had a boss who hired you and then ended up being a disaster, would you expect to also be fired if you were good at your job? I guess this means you won't root for any of the following (because based on your anti-McDaniels logic you shouldn't)- Eric Decker, Demaryius Thomas, Zane Beadles

germ-x wrote:
It seems to me that Adam Gase is getting smeared simply because Josh McDaniels hired him.

Okay I'm going to share a story with you guys and I'm going to be as detailed as possible, without revealing too much, in hopes that you'll believe me.

I had the day off yesterday and decided to head down to Bennett to hang out with a young lady with whom I've been spending time recently. Long story short, she ended up having to work for a few hours longer than she had expected (she works for her family so they can jerk her around in ways that those of who are not employed by relatives aren't). So, after browsing the forum on my iPhone and reading your comments, I decided to see if my friend who works at Dove Valley was to down to meet up for a few beers. I had a few hours to kill anyway so I decided I would take the 40 minute drive down I-70 and the tollway to Centennial.

My friend and I met at a chain restaurant/bar in the Arapahoe Crossing shopping center, 10 minutes from Dove Valley. We had a few brews and I asked him some questions about what he had told me about Adam Gase. He said Gase is a good guy, he works hard, he's very smart, he knows football and he loves the Broncos. He also said that he is arrogant, has something of an abrasive personality and a "my way or the highway" way of doing things. I asked if that reminded him of Mac; he said, yes, he very much "Josh Jr." I think all of us know that those traits listed above - both positive and negative - apply to Mac (save love for the Broncos, Mac only loves the Pats). Gase isn't widely disliked or anything similar to Mac; he's not dividing the team, he's not creating paranoia at Dove Valley, he's not playing Jeckel-and-Hyde type games with people. He knows his place but is "very arrogant" and "has a big head." Apparently, after a few radio interviews right after his promotion that went poorly (and the radio hosts were less than shy about expressing their displeasure with Gase's performance in said interviews), he "went off" blaming others and making very colorful comments about some in the media.

I asked if from an Xs and Os perspective Gase was similar to Mac, he said he wasn't 100% sure (as my friend is not involved in the minutia of offensive game-planning) but that the two share a similar philosophy of offensive football and a lot of the same ideas. The fast-paced offense we've been hearing about since Gase was promoted seems to jive with this.

My friend likes Adam Gase. He thinks he will be a good offensive coordinator and went so far as to say that he has the makings of a future head coach. But he also said he expects some bumps in the road and some growing pains. (For the record, my friend was a supporter of Mac but, after all the turmoil, understood that a change had to be made). That confirmed my initial concerns about hiring Gase, who had zero experience and will be learning on the job.

My friend and I also discussed a lot of other Broncos stuff; the Gase stuff was actually only about 10% of our overall conversation and about 1/3 of our football conversation. But I'm not going to get into those things right now. Wink


Good post AAA. Nice hearing some inside stuff. IMO I'm not too worried about a coach with an ego. They all have them as do players, GM's, etc.
Kinda comes with job.

I'll bet it's pretty toned down when he deals with PM/Fox/Elway and many others. Is it possible it just shows when he deals with people outside the direct NFL family?
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dbronx42


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sources inside Dove Valley tell me everybody thinks Adam Gase is awesome and wants to be his BFF. I'm also hearing he is the offensive genius of his generation.
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PackAtBroncos07


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dbronx42 wrote:
My sources inside Dove Valley tell me everybody thinks Adam Gase is awesome and wants to be his BFF. I'm also hearing he is the offensive genius of his generation.


What are you twelve?
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/15/peyton-manning-still-hopes-broncos-will-bring-brandon-stokley-back/

Seems Peyton wants Stokely back. I think it is a great idea. Bring him in as insurance. And even if no one gets hurt, Stokely can still make crucial grabs for the team this season.
I would take Stokely over Caldwell, Willis and Orton. I see no reason why he cant be our 4th receiver. Let the 5th guy play special teams- (that is the only knock against Stokely at present)

Point being, even at his age, Stokely is better than Willis and Caldwell. At the very least, no reason we shouldn't bring him in to camp on a non-guaranteed contract.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/15/peyton-manning-still-hopes-broncos-will-bring-brandon-stokley-back/

Seems Peyton wants Stokely back. I think it is a great idea. Bring him in as insurance. And even if no one gets hurt, Stokely can still make crucial grabs for the team this season.
I would take Stokely over Caldwell, Willis and Orton. I see no reason why he cant be our 4th receiver. Let the 5th guy play special teams- (that is the only knock against Stokely at present)

Point being, even at his age, Stokely is better than Willis and Caldwell. At the very least, no reason we shouldn't bring him in to camp on a non-guaranteed contract.


Stokely offers nothing on special teams for one. That's a big reason he won't make the team, and contrary to popular belief, you do need your backup WRs to play in that unit. It's easy to say "oh just let the #5 do it", but it's not always that easy.

Teams who do what you're advocating, by the way, often time are unsuccessful. You can't just bring guys aboard because of nostalgia. Stokely will see very few balls in this offense, and personally, I think it's worth getting a younger WR in here to groom for later on. We don't need to be bringing in people because Manning likes them. Need to think of the team now and in the future.
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