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Dismantled team, where do we go?
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lil_hero616


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 408
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

Before you assume this is a debbie downer post, I just want to state our losses and have a discussion on our new plan.

- We overpaid Flacco, while necessary, it was detrimental to our cap.
- We lose Lewis, Reed, Birk, Boldin, Ellerbe, Krueger

Yes we shed some age and can easily addressed it in the draft, but we lost a lot of leadership. I'm glad we aren't splurging in FA, but the draft this year will not bring in much "immediate" help.

We still have many cornerstones in Ngata, Suggs, Flacco, and Rice, but how do you see us doing next year with so many players gone? I see us as competetive, but nowhere near elite or a favorite again.
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MCgamer89


Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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Location: Riverview, FL
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

lil_hero616 wrote:
Before you assume this is a debbie downer post, I just want to state our losses and have a discussion on our new plan.

- We overpaid Flacco, while necessary, it was detrimental to our cap.
- We lose Lewis, Reed, Birk, Boldin, Ellerbe, Krueger

Yes we shed some age and can easily addressed it in the draft, but we lost a lot of leadership. I'm glad we aren't splurging in FA, but the draft this year will not bring in much "immediate" help.

We still have many cornerstones in Ngata, Suggs, Flacco, and Rice, but how do you see us doing next year with so many players gone? I see us as competetive, but nowhere near elite or a favorite again.


Who said we were elite or a favorite last year at the beginning of the playoffs though? A lot of people had the Ravens missing the playoffs when they had their losing streak near the end of the season. Then weren't we 3 point underdogs to the colts? Or 3 point favorites? AT HOME! Either way, after that game we were 9 point underdogs against the Broncos and Patriots at their stadiums, so no one really gave us a chance. I honestly prefer to be the underdog because that puts more pressure on the other team IMO.
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Integrity


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4202
Location: Columbia
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

lil_hero616 wrote:
Before you assume this is a debbie downer post, I just want to state our losses and have a discussion on our new plan.

- We overpaid Flacco, while necessary, it was detrimental to our cap.
- We lose Lewis, Reed, Birk, Boldin, Ellerbe, Krueger

Yes we shed some age and can easily addressed it in the draft, but we lost a lot of leadership. I'm glad we aren't splurging in FA, but the draft this year will not bring in much "immediate" help.

We still have many cornerstones in Ngata, Suggs, Flacco, and Rice, but how do you see us doing next year with so many players gone? I see us as competetive, but nowhere near elite or a favorite again.


This is wrong. By signing Joe long term, we saved 8 to 12 million in cap space.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22055
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

lil_hero616 wrote:
Before you assume this is a debbie downer post, I just want to state our losses and have a discussion on our new plan.

- We overpaid Flacco, while necessary, it was detrimental to our cap.
- We lose Lewis, Reed, Birk, Boldin, Ellerbe, Krueger

Yes we shed some age and can easily addressed it in the draft, but we lost a lot of leadership. I'm glad we aren't splurging in FA, but the draft this year will not bring in much "immediate" help.

We still have many cornerstones in Ngata, Suggs, Flacco, and Rice, but how do you see us doing next year with so many players gone? I see us as competetive, but nowhere near elite or a favorite again.


First, the Flacco deal isn't detrimental to our cap -- at least, not until 2016. It's very modest cap hits until that point.

Secondly, we haven't lost Ed yet.

Thirdly, we lost a lot of veteran leadership in 2011 with cutting Heap, Mason, Gregg, McGahee and losing Landry, McClain, etc. How did that work out for us?

I see us still being contenders in 2013, like we have been for the past 5 years. We weren't "favorites" in any year except maybe 2011, especially last year. We were underdogs the entire way through.

To address the holes, I think Ozzie will do what he always does -- find bargain FAs that fill specific roles (like a Corey Redding, Pollard, Jacoby, Leach, and now Canty) and begin building those positions up with longer term replacements via the draft. We see these types of moves pretty much every off-season. Are we losing a little more than we typically do this off-season? Sure, but that's because Ray and Birk are both retiring. We've lost 3 starters so far this off-season to other teams which is exactly what we lost last season (JJ, Redding, Grubbs) and we won the Super Bowl. It's status quo for the good teams to lose players in March and the reason is because they are the teams that know how to find them again. The Ravens are in this group. We lose players every year, which happens purely because we continue to draft/develop good players so that our stock is continually up to par.
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lil_hero616


Joined: 15 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
lil_hero616 wrote:
Before you assume this is a debbie downer post, I just want to state our losses and have a discussion on our new plan.

- We overpaid Flacco, while necessary, it was detrimental to our cap.
- We lose Lewis, Reed, Birk, Boldin, Ellerbe, Krueger

Yes we shed some age and can easily addressed it in the draft, but we lost a lot of leadership. I'm glad we aren't splurging in FA, but the draft this year will not bring in much "immediate" help.

We still have many cornerstones in Ngata, Suggs, Flacco, and Rice, but how do you see us doing next year with so many players gone? I see us as competitive, but nowhere near elite or a favorite again.


First, the Flacco deal isn't detrimental to our cap -- at least, not until 2016. It's very modest cap hits until that point.
[...]


I welcome your outlook on this, And my comment on Flacco is over-exaggerated partially due to my view that he's overpaid.

You BOTH are very right that we've been underdogs throughout the playoff, I guess when I said elite, the Ravens were always a consistent top 3. Outside of streaky teams, the patriots and broncos were really the only other teams that consistently showed up to games. (I don't count vegas lines as a measurement of eliteness). I guess it just seems like the Ravens are slipping more in the AFC ranks... (minute complaint)

It's not that I don't believe we can recover, but we needed some time to fill in a piece here or there, like Birk and Boldin, and this might be one of those "in between years". I'm not saying we need to repeat, but will we be competitive enough to get to another AFC championship? I remember just dreading being 1-2 plays short every year from an AFC or SB game.

(As I'm writing this I'm grateful that we have the opportunity as team to nitpick details to gauge our playoff success, whereas my home team [lions] is struggling to fill in holes in hopes of a playoff spot).
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Dismantled team, where do we go? Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:

Thirdly, we lost a lot of veteran leadership in 2011 with cutting Heap, Mason, Gregg, McGahee and losing Landry, McClain, etc. How did that work out for us?



There's a good bit of age in that list, as there is some age (Birk, Lewis, Reed-potentially) in this years list. The glaring thing about this years list is that there were some 'high profile' young players. By high profile I simply mean that they were some 'top players' on the Ravens' roster.

Ozzie Newsome has done a really good job for the Ravens and it netted them a Super Bowl last year. Would I love to say "man you guys are screwed!" DUH!! But we should all know better. He clearly has a plan. Perhaps he likes the LB's in the draft SO MUCH that he feels the ones he's losing are easily replaced at a much cheaper cost. There's actually some logic to that if you really think about it.
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kmvoss


Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2223
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have an idea of what's going on /w Pollard? I don't understand what is going on there.
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b-rave11


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 537
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps we can sign Dawan Landry for a bit cheaper? That was the only semi-logical thought that I had regarding Pollard's release...
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ozzie Newsome is a smart dude, I don't doubt for a second that the Ravens will be contenders next year. Maybe not a Super Bowl team immediately, but they'll be up there.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

b-rave11 wrote:
Perhaps we can sign Dawan Landry for a bit cheaper? That was the only semi-logical thought that I had regarding Pollard's release...


Please no. That would be too much of a downgrade for my tastes even if Landry does come cheap.
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b-rave11


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
b-rave11 wrote:
Perhaps we can sign Dawan Landry for a bit cheaper? That was the only semi-logical thought that I had regarding Pollard's release...


Please no. That would be too much of a downgrade for my tastes even if Landry does come cheap.


I remember being a very solid player for us. Again, I don't know how much his abilities have deteriorated since going to Jax.
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 2073
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pollard release is a shocker. The only one that has really caught me by surprise, and I can't figure out the reasoning.

He's become something of a defensive leader over the past couple of years, and his play as a hard hitting SS is exactly what you want from someone in that position. He's not old, and he wasn't getting paid an exorbitant amount.

I wonder if he's been too outspoken for the liking of the FO and/or the coaches.

Anyway, how to rebuild....

Canty is a good start. A decent signing to strengthen the D-line, and that addresses a need, right off the bat. He's not a NT, but it seems like the Ravens are high on Art Jones, so perhaps they envision moving Ngata to NT and Jones to DT.

I wouldn't mind Dansby or someone similar to join in FA, and Danny Amendola has been mentioned as a possible target too.

The draft is clearly going to have to focus on ILB, OLB and Safety. As things stand right now, the Ravens don't actually have a starting Safety (hopefully Reed signs a new deal soon).

Goldson? Delmas? Talented but I don't see either of them as likely targets.

I do like Brad Jones, at ILB, but I can't see him leaving Green Bay for anything less than silly money.

I have to say that I'll be annoyed now if Cary Williams ends up with a new contract. Letting Kruger, Ellerbe and Pollard go but keeping him would be difficult to get my head around.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
The Pollard release is a shocker. The only one that has really caught me by surprise, and I can't figure out the reasoning.

He's become something of a defensive leader over the past couple of years, and his play as a hard hitting SS is exactly what you want from someone in that position. He's not old, and he wasn't getting paid an exorbitant amount.

I wonder if he's been too outspoken for the liking of the FO and/or the coaches.

Anyway, how to rebuild....

Canty is a good start. A decent signing to strengthen the D-line, and that addresses a need, right off the bat. He's not a NT, but it seems like the Ravens are high on Art Jones, so perhaps they envision moving Ngata to NT and Jones to DT.

I wouldn't mind Dansby or someone similar to join in FA, and Danny Amendola has been mentioned as a possible target too.

The draft is clearly going to have to focus on ILB, OLB and Safety. As things stand right now, the Ravens don't actually have a starting Safety (hopefully Reed signs a new deal soon).

Goldson? Delmas? Talented but I don't see either of them as likely targets.

I do like Brad Jones, at ILB, but I can't see him leaving Green Bay for anything less than silly money.

I have to say that I'll be annoyed now if Cary Williams ends up with a new contract. Letting Kruger, Ellerbe and Pollard go but keeping him would be difficult to get my head around.

It's because what Pollard brings to the table with his physicality and aggressiveness against the run, he's equally as woeful against the pass. For the past couple seasons that worked out well for us because he was a new scheme addition and teams hadn't truly figured out a way to expose him. But this year, especially in the playoffs teams were making a concerted effort and found ways to isolate Pollard in coverage and attack him until he screamed bloody murder.

Really, what made Pollard so effective is that he got to play the role of roamer within our defense. We don't need a guy to be as heavy a hitter as Pollard at SS. We just need a guy that can make stops. Honestly, I think the whole FS-SS thing is a little outdated. I think you have safeties with strengths and weaknesses. You find two guys that have the most strengths minus the most weaknesses and that'll trump a lesser player in that equation that has a really strong strength with a really weak weakness.

Personally, I think if we can hold onto Reed as our deep threat deterrent, adding a Johnathan Cyprien or Matt Elam to our defense would be tremendous. They'd get to play the same roamer role that Pollard was playing, only they'd play it closer to the level of what Reed was able to do prior to his shoulder/nerve injury than what Pollard provided. And both can tackle well and blitz well off the edge. Obviously by saying "closer" I don't mean they'd be anywhere near Prime Reed, but they're more talented than Pollard and in that capacity could have an outside chance of pulling off an All Pro 2nd team mention as a rookie... at least it wouldn't surprise me for either player if they're afforded the same freedoms that Pollard had.
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BareYourTeeth


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:

Personally, I think if we can hold onto Reed as our deep threat deterrent, adding a Johnathan Cyprien or Matt Elam to our defense would be tremendous. They'd get to play the same roamer role that Pollard was playing, only they'd play it closer to the level of what Reed was able to do prior to his shoulder/nerve injury than what Pollard provided. And both can tackle well and blitz well off the edge. Obviously by saying "closer" I don't mean they'd be anywhere near Prime Reed, but they're more talented than Pollard and in that capacity could have an outside chance of pulling off an All Pro 2nd team mention as a rookie... at least it wouldn't surprise me for either player if they're afforded the same freedoms that Pollard had.


What about Shamarko? Are you still high on him? Obviously if we have a shot at Cyprien or Elam somewhere in the 2nd, via trade up or trade down, we should pounce but would you like Shamarko otherwise... as the third option?
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Ihedigbo is that big of a drop off from Pollard. What we lose in physicality we gain in coverage ability. Not to mention a lot less 15 yard personal fouls. I agree with diamondbull in that we don't necessarily need that heavy hitter as much as we just need a sure tackler.
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