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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7183
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Rebuilding the Defense Reply with quote

I posted this on another forum and I want to see what everybody here thinks. Let's assume Reed, Williams, and Kruger signs elsewhere and all of the EFAs are retained (which isn't likely but I expect most of them will be back) with Ellerbe being re-signed. This is what the depth chart would look like:

DT: Ngata - Tyson
NT: Cody
DE: Jones - McPhee - Hall
RUSH: Suggs - Hamilton
WILL: Ellerbe - Ayanbadejo
MIKE: McClain - Bynes
SAM: Upshaw - McClellan
CB: Webb - Smith - Graham - Brown - Jackson
FS: Thompson - Brown - Levine
SS: Pollard - Cook

Seems a little lighter on the talent that we're used to. We all know that the defense has needed to be somewhat rebuilt for a while but typing it out like this really gives you an idea of what needs to happen. I'm not worried so much as intrigued about what they're going to do though. I think getting younger and faster (which is almost definitely going to happen) is only a good thing.

What additions would you make to the Ravens defense in order to round out the unit?
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well first of all I would switch to a 4-3 defense to get more athletic.

I would sign DJ Williams and Phillip Wheeler to compete for starting spots, and also maybe a FS through the draft. My depth chart (just starters) would look like:

RE - Terrell Suggs
NT - Terrance Cody
DT - Haloti Ngata
LE - Pernell McPhee
Will - DJ Williams
Mike - Dannell Ellerbe
Sam - Courtney Upshaw
CB1 - Lardarius Webb
CB2 - Corey Graham
FS - *draft replacement*
SS - Bernard Pollard
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6500
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're really going to have to do nail the draft. I don't think it's that bad a depth chart. If we can get 1 or 2 decent rookie starters, I think we're good. I assume we go defense heavy in the draft and we have like 12 picks, plus any UDFA we bring in.

BTW, I think this is the year Jimmy Smith breaks out into a really good player.

I think our front office has similar thoughts. You don't leave a guy you don't trust in true 1 on 1 coverage, at left CB, on the opposing team's #1 WR, on 4th and goal in the super bowl.

So, Graham's the dime guy, imo.


Last edited by wackywabbit on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
We're really going to have to do nail the draft. I don't think it's that bad a depth chart. If we can get 1 or 2 decent rookie starters, I think we're good. I assume we go defense heavy in the draft and we have like 12 picks, plus any UDFA we bring in.


Yeah we REALLY need to get some athleticism in the front 7, whether it's pass rushers or linebackers who can cover, and we also need a FS. Heck, even a NT wouldn't be a bad option at this point. Terrance Cody has turned out to be nothing but a dud. So much for "Mount Cody".
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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Boodgyman5220


Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
We're really going to have to do nail the draft. I don't think it's that bad a depth chart. If we can get 1 or 2 decent rookie starters, I think we're good. I assume we go defense heavy in the draft and we have like 12 picks, plus any UDFA we bring in.


Yeah we REALLY need to get some athleticism in the front 7, whether it's pass rushers or linebackers who can cover, and we also need a FS. Heck, even a NT wouldn't be a bad option at this point. Terrance Cody has turned out to be nothing but a dud. So much for "Mount Cody".


I think this year is the one where cody will start to show why we drafted him. he started his rookie year as a massive human being, then he lost some weight, along with his effectiveness. I think this year he'll really start to come around with some improved strength
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6500
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boodgyman5220 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
We're really going to have to do nail the draft. I don't think it's that bad a depth chart. If we can get 1 or 2 decent rookie starters, I think we're good. I assume we go defense heavy in the draft and we have like 12 picks, plus any UDFA we bring in.


Yeah we REALLY need to get some athleticism in the front 7, whether it's pass rushers or linebackers who can cover, and we also need a FS. Heck, even a NT wouldn't be a bad option at this point. Terrance Cody has turned out to be nothing but a dud. So much for "Mount Cody".


I think this year is the one where cody will start to show why we drafted him. he started his rookie year as a massive human being, then he lost some weight, along with his effectiveness. I think this year he'll really start to come around with some improved strength


Maybe he steps up in a contract year, but I'd bet more on Jimmy Smith making a jump.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2595
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year was a turning point for the franchise in my opinion.

I think the playoff run, subsequent contract for Flacco and trade of Q signifies that the team has made a philosophical shift toward putting a more explosive offense on the field.

No longer will we see 60%+ of our salary cap allocated to the defense, because all those years we had a top 5 defense resulted in early playoff exits, but last year we finally put a respectable offense on the field and made a title run.

I still think we'll add speed to the defense, particularly in the front 7, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we use our premium picks to bolster the offense and the middle and late rounds to fill in the holes on defense.

I know its a complete 180 degree shift from our identity as a franchise since 1996, but in a league where the rules are consistently modified to enhance the offense's ability to score and nominally add greater player safety to the game, the days of a defense bludgeoning an opponent into submission are gone--probably forever.

The past decade has shown us that the game has changed drastically, and Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens FO are smart enough to realize that a bend but don't break defense can win multiple titles if you have an offense that is capable of winning those shootouts.
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BareYourTeeth


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 994
Location: I'm a machine Jerk!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, I would re-sign Reed instead of Ellerbe. He won't be worth the contract we would have to sign him to, as stated a dozen times. Plus, this year's and next year's drafts are STACKED at ILB... with players I like much more than Ellerbe. Instead, sign a veteran stopgap, preferably, Bradie James. Then, go entirely defensive in the early rounds of the draft. With the first pick take Datone Jones, in the second round Shamarko Thomas, third round Chase Thomas, and then in the fourth... imitate the FFMD draft and take Gerald Hodges and Joe Kruger. Yes, take Kruger even though Jones was taken in the first. Why? Because the value would be way too good to pass up. As a result, it would give us the luxury of moving Ngata to NT, who is the type of NT Pees seems to prefer...one that can penetrate. Now, this is what the depth chart would look like:

DE: Joe Kruger, Pernell McPhee, DeAngelo Tyson
NT: Haloti Ngata,Terrence Cody
DE: Datone Jones, Arthur Jones, Bryan Hall
OLB: Courtney Upshaw, Albert McCellan
ILB: Gerald Hodges, Jameel McClain, Brendon Ayanbadejo
ILB: Bradie James, Josh Bynes
OLB: Terrell Suggs, Chase Thomas, Adrian Hamilton
LCB: Lardarius Webb, Corey Graham
FS: Ed Reed, Omar Brown, Christian Thompson
SS: Bernard Pollard, Shamarko Thomas
RCB: Jimmy Smith, Chykie Brown, Asa Jackson



Then in next year's draft, take Shayne Skov to have him replace Bradie James and start beside Hodges.





wackywabbit wrote:
We're really going to have to do nail the draft. I don't think it's that bad a depth chart. If we can get 1 or 2 decent rookie starters, I think we're good. I assume we go defense heavy in the draft and we have like 12 picks, plus any UDFA we bring in.

BTW, I think this is the year Jimmy Smith breaks out into a really good player.

I think our front office has similar thoughts. You don't leave a guy you don't trust in true 1 on 1 coverage, at left CB, on the opposing team's #1 WR, on 4th and goal in the super bowl.

So, Graham's the dime guy, imo.


Agreed.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ I think our whole fanbase might be too astounded by our offense's breakout to realize what really happened in the playoffs. Yes, our passing game was great and our rushing game was decent at times.

However, us winning the Super Bowl has just as much to do with the fact that we had the best defense in the playoffs, and I don't even think it's close/debatable.

We held the Colts to 9 points (lowest output in playoffs) and forced 2 turnovers.

We held a Peyton Manning led offense to 21 points in 5 quarter, forced 3 turnovers including a pick returned for a TD, a fumble that set up a TD drive, and a pick in OT that set up the GW FG.

We held a Pats offense that was one of the highest scoring ever to 13 points, 0 in the 2nd half, and forced 3 turnovers.

In the first half against the 49ers, we allowed 6 points and forced 2 turnovers. The second half we were bad. Allowed 23 points.


What defense played better? The 49ers could not stop the pass against the Falcons or us. The seahawks let Matt Ryan shred them for 3 quarters, and then again on the last drive; plus they may have lucked out a little with the RG3 injury. The Texans got steamrolled by the Pats. The Falcons defense collapsed twice in 2 total games. The Broncos and Pats got "Flacco'd". Am I missing anyone? I guess the Bengals didn't get exposed, but that's because they were out so quick.

Am I being a homer here, or is this as clear as it seems to me?


Last edited by wackywabbit on Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Point being defense is still the foundation of this team, and needs to be great for us to remain super bowl contenders.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sign Louis Delmas.

Draft a combination of John Simon, Corey Lemonier, Khaseem Greene, Arthur Brown, Kiko Alonso, Kevin Reddick, Bacarri Rambo in rounds 2 and 3.
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gooselovechild


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2595
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
^^ I think our whole fanbase might be too astounded by our offense's breakout to realize what really happened in the playoffs. Yes, our passing game was great and our rushing game was decent at times.

However, us winning the Super Bowl has just as much to do with the fact that we had the best defense in the playoffs, and I don't even think it's close/debatable.

We held the Colts to 9 points (lowest output in playoffs) and forced 2 turnovers.

We held a Peyton Manning led offense to 21 points in 5 quarter, forced 3 turnovers including a pick returned for a TD, a fumble that set up a TD drive, and a pick in OT that set up the GW FG.

We held a Pats offense that was one of the highest scoring ever to 13 points, 0 in the 2nd half, and forced 3 turnovers.

In the first half against the 49ers, we allowed 6 points and forced 2 turnovers. The second half we were bad. Allowed 23 points.


What defense played better? The 49ers could not stop the pass against the Falcons or us. The seahawks let Matt Ryan shred them for 3 quarters, and then again on the last drive; plus they may have lucked out a little with the RG3 injury. The Texans got steamrolled by the Pats. The Falcons defense collapsed twice in 2 total games. The Broncos and Pats got "Flacco'd". Am I missing anyone? I guess the Bengals didn't get exposed, but that's because they were out so quick.

Am I being a homer here, or is this as clear as it seems to me?


If you're going to credit our defense for the 1st half, you have to credit the 49ers for the 2nd half of the SB, where they only gave up 6 points (the kick return doesn't count against them there if you aren't counting the 2 we gave up in Denver).

And I won't argue that our defense played its best football of the season in the playoffs, but the offense showed up in every game, averaging almost 28 a game even with the defensive/ST TDs removed.

But its hard to argue that "great" defenses can't dominate the way they used to. The rules don't allow for it over the long haul of as many as 20 games if you make a SB run. The offseason moves we've made thus far have done nothing to dissuade me from the belief that going forward we are going to devote more resources to strengthening the offense as much as possible while maintaining a reasonable but not great defense.

Simply put, you don't invest as much as $120M in your QB and then not give him the toys to play with to be as successful as possible to justify the contract.

I was a "defense wins championships" guy for most of my life too, but teams with strong offenses and respectable defenses are what wins in the current NFL. A strong defense can be exposed by a strong offense, and you have to be able to win track meets to win championships anymore.

And that's why I feel like we are headed in that direction as opposed to everything we've ever known from the Ravens.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Sign Louis Delmas.

Draft a combination of John Simon, Corey Lemonier, Khaseem Greene, Arthur Brown, Kiko Alonso, Kevin Reddick, Bacarri Rambo in rounds 2 and 3.


Why sign Delmas if we have Rambo as well?
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
Sign Louis Delmas.

Draft a combination of John Simon, Corey Lemonier, Khaseem Greene, Arthur Brown, Kiko Alonso, Kevin Reddick, Bacarri Rambo in rounds 2 and 3.


Why sign Delmas if we have Rambo as well?


We won't have Delmas forever. Delmas could get hurt. We wouldn't have Rambo prior to signing Delmas. If Rambo is available at 96 he is the best player available.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BareYourTeeth wrote:
First of all, I would re-sign Reed instead of Ellerbe. He won't be worth the contract we would have to sign him to, as stated a dozen times.


Whoops, I should have explained that point a bit more. This scenario of Reed, Williams, and Kruger all walking while having Ellerbe re-signed was influenced by the reports of Reed hiring an agent and having a good chance at signing elsewhere. Who knows if there's any truth to that last part but at this point I wouldn't be surprised to see him move on. It seems like Baltimore is really committed to not over-valuing their older veterans. I hope it doesn't extend to Reed too but at the same time I don't want them to overpay him either.

The same goes for Ellerbe but I think he might be the most likely candidate to be re-signed at this point. Kruger is going to get a big contract elsewhere and Williams will probably cash in too (not that I'm upset about him leaving Baltimore). The Ravens aren't going to let all four of those guys walk and at the end of the day it might come down to who they feel the most comfortable with overpaying. Like I've aid before I don't want them to spend whatever it takes to keep Ellerbe but given his age and the needs on the interior of the defense he could be viewed as a bigger priority than Reed.
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