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The truth about Pryor vs. SD
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22240
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Bruce Gradkowski held off-season workouts all the time that people attended. This is important information and means A LOT!!!!


Pics from twitter or it didn't happen.
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HvacRaider


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Elsinore
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason the pics are being posted is because
They are all young!!! Young people do those things!!!
Pryor doesn't throw a pass and take a pic while ford
Hauls it in and then post it to twitter before the next throw!!
They are working Pryor ford DMC the "O" is trying to gel they
Are trying to get better together! Pryor is the leader there, just
Like in the SD game when he try to break up the scuffle. He is working to
Fix his problems without the knowledge that he will be the starter
Or the backup.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11758
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Bruce Gradkowski held off-season workouts all the time that people attended. This is important information and means A LOT!!!!


Pics from twitter or it didn't happen.


I don't think he has Twitter. No street cred Sad
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14745
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Bruce Gradkowski held off-season workouts all the time that people attended. This is important information and means A LOT!!!!


cp did also
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10012
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/3/1/4055048/how-many-of-oakland-raiders-carson-palmer-stats-came-in-garbage-time

Quote:
Raiders quarterback, Carson Palmer, threw for over 4000 yards last season but the Raiders finished with a 4-12 record. This has led to many people saying his stats are mostly worthless. But how true is that?

......

His total stats in garbage time during 2012 were:

689 yards passing, 6 TD's, 2 int's

Which makes his adjusted total of stats that truly mattered:

3329 passing yards, 16 TD's, 12 int's

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HvacRaider


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Elsinore
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/3/1/4055048/how-many-of-oakland-raiders-carson-palmer-stats-came-in-garbage-time

Quote:
Raiders quarterback, Carson Palmer, threw for over 4000 yards last season but the Raiders finished with a 4-12 record. This has led to many people saying his stats are mostly worthless. But how true is that?

......

His total stats in garbage time during 2012 were:

689 yards passing, 6 TD's, 2 int's

Which makes his adjusted total of stats that truly mattered:

3329 passing yards, 16 TD's, 12 int's


WOW,,,,, those are top tier QB numbers!! Worth 13 ,10,8 million right lol
Start Pryor and probably get same #'s but with rushing yards and rush TD'S
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HvacRaider wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/3/1/4055048/how-many-of-oakland-raiders-carson-palmer-stats-came-in-garbage-time

Quote:
Raiders quarterback, Carson Palmer, threw for over 4000 yards last season but the Raiders finished with a 4-12 record. This has led to many people saying his stats are mostly worthless. But how true is that?

......

His total stats in garbage time during 2012 were:

689 yards passing, 6 TD's, 2 int's

Which makes his adjusted total of stats that truly mattered:

3329 passing yards, 16 TD's, 12 int's


WOW,,,,, those are top tier QB numbers!! Worth 13 ,10,8 million right lol
Start Pryor and probably get same #'s but with rushing yards and rush TD'S


Assuming he doesn't hurt himself while attempting a 5 step drop, right?
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Somewhere, RR strokes his mustache with pride
Among other things...
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HvacRaider


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 71
Location: Elsinore
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
HvacRaider wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/3/1/4055048/how-many-of-oakland-raiders-carson-palmer-stats-came-in-garbage-time

Quote:
Raiders quarterback, Carson Palmer, threw for over 4000 yards last season but the Raiders finished with a 4-12 record. This has led to many people saying his stats are mostly worthless. But how true is that?

......

His total stats in garbage time during 2012 were:

689 yards passing, 6 TD's, 2 int's

Which makes his adjusted total of stats that truly mattered:

3329 passing yards, 16 TD's, 12 int's


WOW,,,,, those are top tier QB numbers!! Worth 13 ,10,8 million right lol
Start Pryor and probably get same #'s but with rushing yards and rush TD'S


Assuming he doesn't hurt himself while attempting a 5 step drop, right?

Yeah,, "don't get hurt its bad for stats" goes for
All players
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thebeyonder


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Django wrote:
holyghost wrote:
thelawoffices wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
Because some of the mindless dribble actually watch the game and see that he has the ability to zip balls in there.


Except that he hasn't shown that ability in the NFL, and he never showed that ability at Ohio State.


I watched alot of Pryor this past weekend. He can zip. He just doesn't often enough, doesn't trust it I guess.

What's really weird is that he looked like a much more natural passer in the beginning of his Ohio State career. His footwork was livelier, his motion was just easier and more natural coming out, it just seemed he was much more comfortable passing. Like he wasn't thinking about it at all, he was just passing. The thing is he looked better in his natural playing style than he does later on. So whoever got into his head to tell him he had to be something more actually messed him up. His motion, footwork, zip, they were actually pretty damn good as they were when he first played for OSU.

Something happened his last 2 years at Ohio State that turned him into a stiffer less natural passer. It's like confidence or someone telling him the wrong things, or uncertainty about his own abilities or some such.. I don't know what it is. He just looks stiff in the pocket and over concerned with his motion and accuracy and touch now and in his last years at OSU.

And he zipped it more then, he can zip it. I saw passes come from him, low laser type ones. It's not Aaron Rodgers or Russell out there, but I saw all the arm strength needed to zip any NFL throw. As much arm strength as most passers have - Rivers, Mannings, Brady, Brees. No less zip than those guys. But for whatever reason he doesn't trust it and doesn't do it.
If I had to guess he's overobsessed with touch, or becoming a prototypical pro passer type. Because it seems like he is trying to make sure to put touch on every pass. Or trying to be too perfect with every pass and just not letting loose sometimes. Like I said I don't know what it is, but I know for certain it's mental and not physical. Physically, I saw it happen.


I've said this before. Pryor had two things happen at OSU. He changed his throwing mechanics.....and he got heavier. Because of these two things....he got sloppier (even though statistically he obviously improved) thus causing arm strength/accuracy issues. Think Brady Quinn and Tim Tebow as guys who are ripped....but have no arm strength.

Pryor started plodding in the pocket. It looked as though he got heavy feet. Originally Pryor's throwing motion was more sidearm. However, the ball came out quicker, more zip....but wasnt a "prostyle throwing motion"

So he's changed. It the more over the top throwing motion. However, its taken away some of his zip to be more accurate.

Look at this throw in the spring game of 2009. This is more zip than he's ever displayed in the last 4 years. HOwever, look at the motion. He was coming off his freshman season.....

Look at the zips some of throws on these passes.....

*CHECK OUT THE BIG TIME NFL THROW at 1:36!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDDeMNxaWe8

He looked more natural throwing than he has as a pro. WHY the change TRESSEL (or Pryor...)?


Well that makes sense then. I for one do not think he needed to change anything. Who cares if you don't have a picture perfect motion as long as it is not a significant hindrance. Ala Byron Leftwich. A bit sidearm isn't the end of the world especially considering what he lost as a result of the change. Geno Smith's motion is pretty poor, but he gets the job done.

Pryor lost alot of zip, he lost all feel for his footwork and natural passing.

He got bigger since but I really don't think that's the issue. I can tell the slow feet and lobby passes are about overthinking mechanics and touch.


Maybe it's because he hasn't played that much in the last few years? I know that in a game like professional soccer, not playing for a year or two sets even the most talented players back.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a maybe, but I don't think so. Something changed after his freshman year. While watching random highlights of him I started to notice what looked like a totally different player from way back. A guy who looked as if he had no problems with footowork, just slinging it with abandon. And zip, still some natural accuracy issues, but some sick passes in there. A couple tight sideline ones at a good distance - real pro stuff.
Then the next year that guy was just gone. And in his place was a heavy footed overthinker lofting everything. Who hadn't gained any accuracy but lost all his fire, all his natural feel. Just robotic as Django said...

Something happened between freshman and sophomore seasons. It's sooo clear just watching stuff. But damn, if we could ever get that original guy back. Because honestly, he looked like a faster even more confident Kaepernick. He looked like a total badass pro QB prospect, as a freshman no less. Django said he had a quirky sidearm thing, but to be honest it couldn't have been very quirky because I didn't even notice it. And it was definitely not enough of a quirk to limit him in the pros. But somehow, at that point Pryor got it in his head to change everything into a "prototypical" pro passer style stance and motion. But it's so clear #1 that it hurt him as a passer to do that and #2 he didn't even need to in the first place..

What I saw in his freshman season was everything that constitutes a #1 overall QB pick. Then that guy just disappeared.

And to those saying he has a noodle arm. Well maybe. But not naturally. It looks like it now but as a freshman he had an upper tier pro arm with tons of power and zip. Not a Russell level cannon (but how many guys really have that kind of arm or ever need it), but upper tier and definitely more than enough for any pro throw.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165714-third-times-a-charm-terrelle-pryor-next-sophmore-heisman-winner

See scroll down abouta page and a half. "There was no sign of the awkward, shotput-like throwing motion he sometimes displayed last season."

Shotput? Who cares... Just pretty much ruined a future HOFer and turned him into a mental case right there. Does Peyton Manning have picture perfect mechanics? No. He has what he needs to be a natural passer and get the job done. Pryor is trying to be perfect, and failing at being Terrelle Pryor. This is already 4 or 5 years ago though, as Django pointed out. Can it ever go back? Or can he get himself back with the new mechnics? Dunno... Doesn't look like it.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
raiders707 wrote:
Django wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
Django wrote:
If Pryor could just throw with zip.....he would be the QB of the future. Not saying starter over Carson. But the team would let him be the guy one day. However, those floaters scare DA.


I'd be on board with that in that scenario. Unfortunately, it isn't the one we're in though Confused



Also, when is part 2 of this thread coming around? The DARE about Pryor vs SD?


I think drafting Geno cancels out the possible "leadership problem" we may have next year.

Looking at that last game...and how the young guys cling to Pryor for workouts....it probably could be a distraction.

Reece said emphatically that we MUST bring Carson back. He's the leader. He's the QB. However, judging from the off season workouts....guys like Ford, (use to be DHB), Moore, Hagan.....are getting work done with Pryor.
Cant underestimate something like that. Steve Corkran said Pryor has always had a following (from the team), just needs to show it on the field.

I think both Carson and Pryor are leaders (Carson's obviously the better QB now).

Carson is the guy you want to lead you into battle. Pryor is the guy you want leading you out of a foxhole.

Still needs to throw better Laughing




1+++++++ nuff said


Fans read to much into the fact that the players get with Pryor off the field. They are all young and live similar lifestyles.

Palmers a mid 30's married white guy with kids (?). Sure he has his own life and friends to hangout with away from the field.

When he works out, players are there with him. He's been a great leader off the field as well.
They get with Pryor off the field to work out, not because there all young and have similar lifestyles. You trying to downgrade the work these guys are doing to prepare themselves for the upcoming season like there out clubbing or something. The point is there out working on there game at a time when when most others are not.


No. The difference is they are posting pics on twitter and fans like yourself start clamoring over how great a leader Pryor is. When in fact most PROFESSIONAL athletes are working on their games with teammates and friends from other teams.
Nah bro he showed his leadership in the SD game. Working with his teamates trying to get better shows he aint just sitting around wanting to be a backup his whole career.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165714-third-times-a-charm-terrelle-pryor-next-sophmore-heisman-winner

See scroll down abouta page and a half. "There was no sign of the awkward, shotput-like throwing motion he sometimes displayed last season."

Shotput? Who cares... Just pretty much ruined a future HOFer and turned him into a mental case right there. Does Peyton Manning have picture perfect mechanics? No. He has what he needs to be a natural passer and get the job done. Pryor is trying to be perfect, and failing at being Terrelle Pryor. This is already 4 or 5 years ago though, as Django pointed out. Can it ever go back? Or can he get himself back with the new mechnics? Dunno... Doesn't look like it.


What's wrong with Peyton's mechanics??? I always thought Peyton had a very efficient release and excellent footwork?
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
holyghost wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165714-third-times-a-charm-terrelle-pryor-next-sophmore-heisman-winner

See scroll down abouta page and a half. "There was no sign of the awkward, shotput-like throwing motion he sometimes displayed last season."

Shotput? Who cares... Just pretty much ruined a future HOFer and turned him into a mental case right there. Does Peyton Manning have picture perfect mechanics? No. He has what he needs to be a natural passer and get the job done. Pryor is trying to be perfect, and failing at being Terrelle Pryor. This is already 4 or 5 years ago though, as Django pointed out. Can it ever go back? Or can he get himself back with the new mechnics? Dunno... Doesn't look like it.


What's wrong with Peyton's mechanics??? I always thought Peyton had a very efficient release and excellent footwork?


Not saying there's anything wrong with his mechanics. I am just saying that pretty much no QB has picture perfect mechanics.
AFA Manning, if you were going to make him a "perfect" passer as far as mechanics you would probably want more hip turn, less base on his front foot, and you'd get rid of the tapping feet. You'd probably want some more arm strength too. But who the hell cares. Because instead of that arm strength the guy just throws to the right guy at the right time, knowing his own arm strength and what, where and when he needs to throw it.

I am sure there are college QBs who had what a scout would call "perfect" mechanics, only to be noone any of us would remember because perfect mechanics are not the end all and be all of a HOF passer. See Kyle Boller or Jeff George and the way they can spin the ball. Not by any means relevant to greatness. Phillip Rivers has had some great years and his mechanics pretty much suck bad. Drew Brees is "too short", so is Russell Wilson. Brett Favre was too much of a gunslinger. Joe Montana didn't have a strong enough arm, looked like a tire salesman physically. So did Tom Brady.
Point is none of them is what you would consider dead perfect. Doesn't matter because they got the job done being whatever they had to be that worked. And this is what went wrong with Pryor. What he did and what he was worked, and I can see it as a freshman. Change that and you end up with a perfectly mechanical robot who can't play the game naturally any more and lost alot of what made him the #1 football prospect in the nation in high school.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
holyghost wrote:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/165714-third-times-a-charm-terrelle-pryor-next-sophmore-heisman-winner

See scroll down abouta page and a half. "There was no sign of the awkward, shotput-like throwing motion he sometimes displayed last season."

Shotput? Who cares... Just pretty much ruined a future HOFer and turned him into a mental case right there. Does Peyton Manning have picture perfect mechanics? No. He has what he needs to be a natural passer and get the job done. Pryor is trying to be perfect, and failing at being Terrelle Pryor. This is already 4 or 5 years ago though, as Django pointed out. Can it ever go back? Or can he get himself back with the new mechnics? Dunno... Doesn't look like it.


What's wrong with Peyton's mechanics??? I always thought Peyton had a very efficient release and excellent footwork?


Not saying there's anything wrong with his mechanics. I am just saying that pretty much no QB has picture perfect mechanics.
AFA Manning, if you were going to make him a "perfect" passer as far as mechanics you would probably want more hip turn, less base on his front foot, and you'd get rid of the tapping feet. You'd probably want some more arm strength too. But who the hell cares. Because instead of that arm strength the guy just throws to the right guy at the right time, knowing his own arm strength and what, where and when he needs to throw it.

I am sure there are college QBs who had what a scout would call "perfect" mechanics, only to be noone any of us would remember because perfect mechanics are not the end all and be all of a HOF passer. See Kyle Boller or Jeff George and the way they can spin the ball. Not by any means relevant to greatness. Phillip Rivers has had some great years and his mechanics pretty much suck bad. Drew Brees is "too short", so is Russell Wilson. Brett Favre was too much of a gunslinger. Joe Montana didn't have a strong enough arm, looked like a tire salesman physically. So did Tom Brady.
Point is none of them is what you would consider dead perfect. Doesn't matter because they got the job done being whatever they had to be that worked. And this is what went wrong with Pryor. What he did and what he was worked, and I can see it as a freshman. Change that and you end up with a perfectly mechanical robot who can't play the game naturally any more and lost alot of what made him the #1 football prospect in the nation in high school.


My bad I was under the impression that when you suggested Peyton's mechanics "weren't perfect" that they were flawed in some way not a zero sum statement. Wink Obviously he isn't a young man anymore but I have heard in the past that Peyton had near perfect mechanics and I have also read that although unusual Peyton purposely moves his feet that way to speed release. We ALL do it but I would feel a bit uncomfortable with how that statement comes across.
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