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The truth about Pryor vs. SD
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
again, im not questioning it... Palmer has great work ethic.. but i just think pryors is better

working with 3 qb coaches, supposedly was practicing with some of our wrs a few weeks ago, ive read hes always the last one of the field, always trying to get more reps in, ect.

obviously im not there so i may be wrong... but from what ive gathered, it seems like pryor is working his butt off for this job


So he's a great worker b/c he has so many flaws he's trying to fix?? I bet if Palmer was that bad, he'd have all those coaches too. That is quite the unfair argument.
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dmac505


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
again, im not questioning it... Palmer has great work ethic.. but i just think pryors is better

working with 3 qb coaches, supposedly was practicing with some of our wrs a few weeks ago, ive read hes always the last one of the field, always trying to get more reps in, ect.

obviously im not there so i may be wrong... but from what ive gathered, it seems like pryor is working his butt off for this job


So he's a great worker b/c he has so many flaws he's trying to fix?? I bet if Palmer was that bad, he'd have all those coaches too. That is quite the unfair argument.



Palmer does have a lot of flaws in his game too... I dont see him calling up a bunch of coaches.

are you saying Palmer is the perfect qb?

everyone can improve their game Laughing
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10112
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
again, im not questioning it... Palmer has great work ethic.. but i just think pryors is better

working with 3 qb coaches, supposedly was practicing with some of our wrs a few weeks ago, ive read hes always the last one of the field, always trying to get more reps in, ect.

obviously im not there so i may be wrong... but from what ive gathered, it seems like pryor is working his butt off for this job


So he's a great worker b/c he has so many flaws he's trying to fix?? I bet if Palmer was that bad, he'd have all those coaches too. That is quite the unfair argument.



Palmer does have a lot of flaws in his game too... I dont see him calling up a bunch of coaches.

are you saying Palmer is the perfect qb?

everyone can improve their game Laughing


So we should bash every QB who isn't working with a million coaches to try and learn how to do a 5 step drop and read a defense?
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
again, im not questioning it... Palmer has great work ethic.. but i just think pryors is better

working with 3 qb coaches, supposedly was practicing with some of our wrs a few weeks ago, ive read hes always the last one of the field, always trying to get more reps in, ect.

obviously im not there so i may be wrong... but from what ive gathered, it seems like pryor is working his butt off for this job


So he's a great worker b/c he has so many flaws he's trying to fix?? I bet if Palmer was that bad, he'd have all those coaches too. That is quite the unfair argument.



Palmer does have a lot of flaws in his game too... I dont see him calling up a bunch of coaches.

are you saying Palmer is the perfect qb?

everyone can improve their game Laughing


Every QB has flaws. Not even Montana was perfect. Should he have had all those coaches also??
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
trying to downplay his leadership really shows your bias against him.


Personally, I find the leadership argument to be a moot point. Both of them are leaders. And for that matter, most QBs are. So why should either of them be lauded for something most QBs do? If anything its more of an indictment that people have to bring it up, in my opinion. Its like they're saying "See? He isn't bad at something." more than a compliment. Just how I see it.


i find people seem to think of leader as you either are one or you arent.

but i dont think its like that.... some players are better leaders than others. Palmers a good leader, says all the right things... but i do believe pryor is more of a natural leader on the field.

yes it is way less important than other characteristics like arm strength, foot work, (which is why i like palmer over pryor) but id take pryors leadership and work ethic over palmers.


Why? Palmer not only does just as much as Pryor, but mentors Pryor on top of it...

Palmer came in after that trade and was running the no huddle a week or two later, just a small example but I'm not sure how anyone can question his work ethic.


wasnt that the whole selling point "cp knows hue's offense"?
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
trying to downplay his leadership really shows your bias against him.


Personally, I find the leadership argument to be a moot point. Both of them are leaders. And for that matter, most QBs are. So why should either of them be lauded for something most QBs do? If anything its more of an indictment that people have to bring it up, in my opinion. Its like they're saying "See? He isn't bad at something." more than a compliment. Just how I see it.


i find people seem to think of leader as you either are one or you arent.

but i dont think its like that.... some players are better leaders than others. Palmers a good leader, says all the right things... but i do believe pryor is more of a natural leader on the field.

yes it is way less important than other characteristics like arm strength, foot work, (which is why i like palmer over pryor) but id take pryors leadership and work ethic over palmers.


Why? Palmer not only does just as much as Pryor, but mentors Pryor on top of it...

Palmer came in after that trade and was running the no huddle a week or two later, just a small example but I'm not sure how anyone can question his work ethic.


wasnt that the whole selling point "cp knows hue's offense"?


Well he spent one year with Hue as his OC at SC in 1999, so although he was familiar with some terminology, Hues playbook was still a lot different and more in depth as an NFL OC, not to mention there was 11 years in between. He didn't "know" the playbook by any means, although I'll agree it was familiar to him. It was noted how Palmer spent the entire bye week etc studying the playbook and working with the players, and he did the same thing last off season as far as organizing work outs with the players goes.

Quote:
While the post-injury Palmer would likely be an upgrade on the dreadful Kyle Boller, Boller has one advantage on Palmer: He knows the playbook. Hue Jackson might have been USC's offensive coordinator while Palmer was there in the late-nineties, but that doesn't mean that the Raiders are running a similar sort of offense with the same language and personnel.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/6988/the-cost-of-carson-and-the-rest-of-the-nfl-trading-deadline-deals

Palmer himself said that he knew roughly 10% of the playbook going in to the KC game.
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HvacRaider


Joined: 12 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmac505 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:

Nah bro he showed his leadership in the SD game. Working with his teamates trying to get better shows he aint just sitting around wanting to be a backup his whole career.


"Great leader". LOL. I love how this guy gets crowned king for the most basic aspect of QBing LOL.

Pryor is nothing special. The sooner you see it, the sooner we don't have to live w/ this constant jock riding. It's pathetic. And to the bold, it's what he should be doing b/c he'll be lucky to be that LOL


yes its one of the most basic aspects... but given the fact its a basic aspect shows how valuable / desireable it is in a qb.

Look @ tony romo in Dallas!
yes everyone thinks the QB is the leader of teams... but a lot of QBs are not, and it is a very over looked factor IMO

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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15258
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
trying to downplay his leadership really shows your bias against him.


Personally, I find the leadership argument to be a moot point. Both of them are leaders. And for that matter, most QBs are. So why should either of them be lauded for something most QBs do? If anything its more of an indictment that people have to bring it up, in my opinion. Its like they're saying "See? He isn't bad at something." more than a compliment. Just how I see it.


i find people seem to think of leader as you either are one or you arent.

but i dont think its like that.... some players are better leaders than others. Palmers a good leader, says all the right things... but i do believe pryor is more of a natural leader on the field.

yes it is way less important than other characteristics like arm strength, foot work, (which is why i like palmer over pryor) but id take pryors leadership and work ethic over palmers.


Why? Palmer not only does just as much as Pryor, but mentors Pryor on top of it...

Palmer came in after that trade and was running the no huddle a week or two later, just a small example but I'm not sure how anyone can question his work ethic.


wasnt that the whole selling point "cp knows hue's offense"?


Well he spent one year with Hue as his OC at SC in 1999, so although he was familiar with some terminology, Hues playbook was still a lot different and more in depth as an NFL OC, not to mention there was 11 years in between. He didn't "know" the playbook by any means, although I'll agree it was familiar to him. It was noted how Palmer spent the entire bye week etc studying the playbook and working with the players, and he did the same thing last off season as far as organizing work outs with the players goes.

Quote:
While the post-injury Palmer would likely be an upgrade on the dreadful Kyle Boller, Boller has one advantage on Palmer: He knows the playbook. Hue Jackson might have been USC's offensive coordinator while Palmer was there in the late-nineties, but that doesn't mean that the Raiders are running a similar sort of offense with the same language and personnel.


http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/6988/the-cost-of-carson-and-the-rest-of-the-nfl-trading-deadline-deals

Palmer himself said that he knew roughly 10% of the playbook going in to the KC game.


maybe thats what it was cause i vaguely remember cp saying that most of the termanology was the same.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
trying to downplay his leadership really shows your bias against him.


Personally, I find the leadership argument to be a moot point. Both of them are leaders. And for that matter, most QBs are. So why should either of them be lauded for something most QBs do? If anything its more of an indictment that people have to bring it up, in my opinion. Its like they're saying "See? He isn't bad at something." more than a compliment. Just how I see it.


i find people seem to think of leader as you either are one or you arent.

but i dont think its like that.... some players are better leaders than others. Palmers a good leader, says all the right things... but i do believe pryor is more of a natural leader on the field.

yes it is way less important than other characteristics like arm strength, foot work, (which is why i like palmer over pryor) but id take pryors leadership and work ethic over palmers.


Why? Palmer not only does just as much as Pryor, but mentors Pryor on top of it...

Palmer came in after that trade and was running the no huddle a week or two later, just a small example but I'm not sure how anyone can question his work ethic.


wasnt that the whole selling point "cp knows hue's offense"?


Didn't you argue against me that he didn't one time?
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Raiiiiidersssss


Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
TerrellePryor: I won't be Denied


https://twitter.com/terrellepryor/status/313877911490920448

Shocked
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
dmac505 wrote:
trying to downplay his leadership really shows your bias against him.


Personally, I find the leadership argument to be a moot point. Both of them are leaders. And for that matter, most QBs are. So why should either of them be lauded for something most QBs do? If anything its more of an indictment that people have to bring it up, in my opinion. Its like they're saying "See? He isn't bad at something." more than a compliment. Just how I see it.


i find people seem to think of leader as you either are one or you arent.

but i dont think its like that.... some players are better leaders than others. Palmers a good leader, says all the right things... but i do believe pryor is more of a natural leader on the field.

yes it is way less important than other characteristics like arm strength, foot work, (which is why i like palmer over pryor) but id take pryors leadership and work ethic over palmers.


Why? Palmer not only does just as much as Pryor, but mentors Pryor on top of it...

Palmer came in after that trade and was running the no huddle a week or two later, just a small example but I'm not sure how anyone can question his work ethic.


wasnt that the whole selling point "cp knows hue's offense"?


Didn't you argue against me that he didn't one time?


doubt it.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Quote:
TerrellePryor: I won't be Denied


https://twitter.com/terrellepryor/status/313877911490920448

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Django


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Raiiiiidersssss wrote:
Quote:
TerrellePryor: I won't be Denied


https://twitter.com/terrellepryor/status/313877911490920448

Shocked


tOSU wrote:

How was your senior year??



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Django


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I'll put this here. Its Harbaugh worried about Kaep. Its the same issue I brought up about Pryor a while back. Some of the commenters make good points about Tebow and Quinn and how it affected their motion (Obviously Kaep's arm is and will be stronger than all those guys...however, your mechanics can suffer from too much weight lifting)


Quote:
If youre just talking about weightlifting and upper-body strength, yes, I think there is that fear, Harbaugh told Matt Maiocco of CSNBayArea.com. Its something weve talked about. I dont want you getting too jacked-up, Colin. I want some speed, quickness.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/22/harbaugh-worries-that-kaepernicks-arms-are-getting-too-muscular/#comments


Quote:
randyschwimmer7 says:
Mar 22, 2013 12:17 PM
I hate to bring this name up, but that is exactly what happened with Tebow. Dude was so worried about lifting weights and being huge that the muscle mass in his upper body effected his throwing motion and got in the way of him learning to get it more compact.

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m52876


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read pages 1, 6, 7, and 8 so forgive me if I am just repeating something that has already been said about TP but there is nothing about his leadership ability, arm strength, work ethic, or mechanics that is holding him back. I kept reading that from other posters.

It's his head. Plain. Simple. QB is a position for individuals that can process information very quickly. 3 to 4 reads, if no time, check, throw away or run. If time, more reads. Get the team in and out of the huddle quickly. This is the basic stuff. He can't do that stuff yet. Palmer can.

I hope all his hard work and study gets him there because if he can get those basics down we've got a great QB for the next decade. The coaches hope that too. That's why they say there is an open competition. It's an attempt to motivate him to do the things an NFL QB needs to do to succeed.
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