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Jarvis Jones does NOT have Spinal Stenosis...
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dswinton


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At two you cant draft a guy with potential he has to be the sure thing.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dswinton wrote:
At two you cant draft a guy with potential he has to be the sure thing.


Aaron Curry approves
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
dswinton wrote:
At two you cant draft a guy with potential he has to be the sure thing.


Aaron Curry approves


Yea, nothing safe about him anymore
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact is there are no safe picks.

If you're trying to draft "safe" then you're going to have a bad draft.
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Jags


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dswinton wrote:
I mean both but more specically a guy who can average 10 plus sacks a season or close to it. Mingo and Dion haven't been consistent enough.


Well if that is production for college, then there are very few players who are fitting your bill of production out of college.

I guess you wouldn't want JJ Watt (average 6 sacks per year in college), Osi U. (6.5 SPY in college), Clay Matthews III (> 5 SPY), Charles Johnson (> 7 SPY), John Abraham (> 7 SPY), Cameron Wake (> 4 SPY), Chris Clemons (> 4 SPY), Chris Long (6 SPY) the list can go on, but these are just a few examples.

Just saying I don't agree with your principle. It just takes good coaching, placement, and hard work to get production and if someone is fitting the bill, then that is who you choose to get production from.

Only issue is.... It is easier said than done.
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Last edited by Jags on Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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dswinton


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@jags: Was any of those guys you name selected at 2. For example Von Miller was a sure thing at 2 so was RG3 . Those guys you name probaly was'nt taken in the top 5 yet along at 2.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Von Miller was far from a sure thing, especially in terms of his role in a 4-3. He was seen as relatively a boom or bust guy that was a 3-4 only linebacker.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jags wrote:
dswinton wrote:
I mean both but more specically a guy who can average 10 plus sacks a season or close to it. Mingo and Dion haven't been consistent enough.


Well if that is production for college, then there are very few players who are not fitting your bill of production out of college.

I guess you wouldn't want JJ Watt (average 6 sacks per year in college), Osi U. (6.5 SPY in college), Clay Matthews III (> 5 SPY), Charles Johnson (> 7 SPY), John Abraham (> 7 SPY), Cameron Wake (> 4 SPY), Chris Clemons (> 4 SPY), Chris Long (6 SPY) the list can go on, but these are just a few examples.

Just saying I don't agree with your principle. It just takes good coaching, placement, and hard work to get production and if someone is fitting the bill, then that is who you choose to get production from.

Only issue is.... It is easier said than done.
Thank you. College production does not necessarily translate to the NFL game and vice versa.
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dswinton


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm sayin is at 2 you take the sure thing over potential Jarvis is the sure thing, Geno is the sure thing as well.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you take the player that will become the best player. Period. You don't take the one who had the best college career just because they had the best college career. That's how you end up missing on Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, JJ Watt, and etc.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to mention that college stats =/= sure thing
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me explain this for everyone, so we all get it.

At the college level, there is a huge talent disparity between the guys who are good, and the guys that aren't. There is a huge difference in size, speed, and general athletic ability, not to mention game intelligence. That disparity just isn't there at the NFL level. There's such a small group of the best of the best, that it's just not that different.


So to get back to the college game, even on great teams, there's usually only a few guys that are "NFL" ready on one side of the ball or the other while they're in college. The other players are usually middling talent, the type that would be lucky to catch on a practice roster. And this goes for the best of the best of the best. This means that when a player is playing against another team, if they do one thing really well, they can dominate at the college level, by taking advantage of that middling talent. Mike Hart (whom I've played against in high school, so that's why I'm using that as an example) is a near perfect example of this. He was bigger than the majority of college guys and had really good strength. Because he excelled at this one thing, he dominated at the college level like few college backs of that time. However when it came time for him to make the transition to the NFL, he was completely incapable of doing so because the NFL teams weren't overpowered by his strength and he lacked the other skills to be successful.

This type of thing happens all the time with stat accumulators in college, they dominate with the few skills that they have, but when it comes time to transition that to the pro game, they're so limited in the abilities that they have, that they just can't use that limited pool of things to be successful anymore.

And these "skills" that accumulate stats sometimes aren't even skills, but scheme fits, talent level of the opposition, or a bevy of other things coming into play.

So in contrast, other times we see incredible talents at the college level who are just put in a bad scheme (Mingo playing contain, for example) where they can't be a stat compiler and you have to look at their actual talent.

So please, for the love of all things good, stop using college stats as a predictor of future success. It is wrong and has never, at any time, been a successful way to guage how talent transitions to the pro level.
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dswinton


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You draft college players not only on stats but stats against tough competition. Jarvis dominated the TOUGHEST conference and college consistently. If you going to just draft on potential why not draft me I am 24 years old I'm 6ft 6 weigh 175 pds if you give me and offseason to get in shape I can potentially be the best WR in the NFL but never played college football but I can play I have a ton of potential.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dswinton wrote:
You draft college players not only on stats but stats against tough competition. Jarvis dominated the TOUGHEST conference and college consistently.
And again...
Quote:
So to get back to the college game, even on great teams, there's usually only a few guys that are "NFL" ready on one side of the ball or the other while they're in college.
...
And these "skills" that accumulate stats sometimes aren't even skills, but scheme fits, talent level of the opposition, or a bevy of other things coming into play.


Quote:
If you going to just draft on potential why not draft me I am 24 years old I'm 6ft 6 weigh 175 pds if you give me and offseason to get in shape I can potentially be the best WR in the NFL but never played college football but I can play I have a ton of potential.
Do you have the speed to play wide receiver? Have you shown quality hands? Are you able to go over the middle without fear? Are you able to comprehend a playbook? Are you able to run routes effectively? How good is your body control? Do you have good acceleration? Do you have the strength to beat a jam? Can you play in space? Can you read a defense? Do you have any of the physical skills that it takes to be a wide receiver?

To put it lightly, your analogy is just plain dumb.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
The fact is there are no safe picks.

If you're trying to draft "safe" then you're going to have a bad draft.


*inserts South Park Aspen gif.....here* Laughing
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