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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think plenty of people backing Tebow and bringing up the "to make an NFL roster you have to be talented" argument are a little bit misunderstanding what those who are saying Tebow doesnt have NFL qb talent are saying.

Of course Tebow's a talented football player. More talented than me or you or probably anyone posting in this forum as football talent goes. My argument is that in relation to other QB's in the NFL, even the backups, he's not as talented.

Now Tebow can provide a spark to an offense thru his running and heart. But he's not a guy you can put in for four quarters. He'll hurt ya that way.

He's almost like a middle reliever in baseball. Not good enough stuff to start, not good enough to close, but can still provide help in a very limited way, situationally (think lefty/righty specialist). He's a niche player, not a starting QB. Carve out a niche for him, and he can provide a team value, but thats not playing all game, its a very small dose per game.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoever the Broncos strength and training coach is freaking awesome. Based on the pics I saw today, the players look like they are in tip top shape. DT looks stronger, which is scary for the DB's.
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PackAtBroncos07


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'll wait for anyone to just answer this one question. If Tim Tebow is so obviously an NFL caliber long-term franchise QB, then why were all 32 teams hesitant to pick him up or keep him? Why is his only landing spot as a 3rd string QB with no guaranteed roster spot? Surely if he's as good as everyone says, then he should have no problem landing on an NFL roster...hell, by what most people say, he should have teams banging the doors down for him. So why don't they? Why do the people who have the job of assembling talent not want Tebow? Could it be that :gasp: he just isn't that talented????

You asked more than one question!!!!

You dont make an NFL roster unless your talented. Enough of people saying hes not. Thats got to be the most ignorant thought NFL "fans" can have. Hes talented. Quit arguing that. He got drafted in the 1st round, STARTED on an NFL team that went to the playoffs, won a playoff game, was traded for ACTUAL draft picks and then signed by the smartest coach in the NFL today. Hes got talent.

If you were to have any argument, it would be "Can he improve his throwing mechanics?" Thats the only argument against the guy. And in the offense with the Pats, its the best offense for his skillset. Plus, he re-unites a very smart coach that thinks he can fix him.

Broncos fans should be more appreciative of what Tebow did in Denver. Without his play, yes HIS PLAY, they likely wouldnt have landed Peyton Manning and be where they are right now. Remember, Kyle Orton was 1-4 before Tebow took over.


This.

Argument over.

Dude, Elloit, do you even understand what you're saying? What is your definition of the perfect QB? A man with such a ridiculous arm that he literally doesn't have to move to make every throw he needs to? Bout as close as we have to that is Tom Brady and he can't even do it. Peyton's ability to shuffle in the pocket is his greatest strength coupled with his arm strength and accuracy, but good luck calling much play action roll outs or gaining any yards on the ground with him. You thing about the QB that people don't understand is that you can treat it like a ball carrier and make it dynamic, multi-dimensional if you will. He's just the man that receives the snap. And that player can do what ever he wants with it, hand it off, throw it, don't look at any receivers and try to just flat out run with it, run play action. I can't explain it much better than that. You say Tim isn't talented when he can literally do all those things. It just doesn't make sense. There are only a few QB's that can also do all those in this league right now at as high a level as him (Russel Wilson, RG3, Colin Kaepernick, and maybe Andrew Luck to an extent). But Russel is short and it hinders him, RG3 is breakable, Colin is more talented than Tebow I think but Tebow has better running vision and less of a risk for injury, and Luck is a huge injury risk running power QB runs or option plays.

You see it yet? Do you see the possibilities?
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broncosfan07


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah look at that throwing ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTFhkHK6t1A

I seriously wonder what people actually watch his throws look even worse in practice with no pressure on him.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Oh yeah look at that throwing ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTFhkHK6t1A

I seriously wonder what people actually watch his throws look even worse in practice with no pressure on him.

Anyone can play that game. Perfect throw here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuUIhv8z3M
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brassglobos


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't really been following the discussion but I would hope Denver fans would be appreciative of Tebow and what he did for this franchise. It was the most entertaining 3 months of Denver Broncos football since the late 90s.

I'm glad he's in NE, reunited with McDaniels, a coach who believes in him. Playing behind an all-time great, no QB controversy, and playing for a Head Coach who will dilute the media circus. Off the top of my head, I cannot think for a better situation for him to be in, so good for him.

I personally wish him nothing but the best, although I don't think I can force myself to cheer to the Patriots, ugh.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Oh yeah look at that throwing ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTFhkHK6t1A

I seriously wonder what people actually watch his throws look even worse in practice with no pressure on him.

Anyone can play that game. Perfect throw here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuUIhv8z3M
Never said he didn't have his good moments, but if you actually watched the games there were more bad plays than good. And that is why no one who needed a starter wanted Tebow, despite moments of looking very good there was so many fundamentally bad plays that no one can take that chance. For every Minnesota game where Tebow was flawless you get KC, Buffalo, NE, Detroit games where he was abysmal.
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JerseysFinest27


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brassglobos wrote:
Haven't really been following the discussion but I would hope Denver fans would be appreciative of Tebow and what he did for this franchise. It was the most entertaining 3 months of Denver Broncos football since the late 90s.

I'm glad he's in NE, reunited with McDaniels, a coach who believes in him. Playing behind an all-time great, no QB controversy, and playing for a Head Coach who will dilute the media circus. Off the top of my head, I cannot think for a better situation for him to be in, so good for him.

I personally wish him nothing but the best, although I don't think I can force myself to cheer to the Patriots, ugh.

Well said brassglobos
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Oh yeah look at that throwing ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTFhkHK6t1A

I seriously wonder what people actually watch his throws look even worse in practice with no pressure on him.

Anyone can play that game. Perfect throw here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuUIhv8z3M


There are A LOT more instances of the first type of throw than the second.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lmao Peyton Manning came to Denver because of what Tebow did for the franchise? Peyton Manning came here because there were two great young receivers breaking out, an unreal defense, a winning head coach, a Hall of Fame QB is the VP and one hell of a sales pitch, part of that pitch being, "if you sign the Tebow circus will not be here."

Please, when Tebow un does the throwing motion that his muscles have memorized for 13+ years I'll applaud him. Then when he becomes accurate with his new motion - the biggest challenge because he's not accurate with that wind up motion hes used all his life then I will admit you guys are right.

Seriously whats your guys argument here. He can become a starting quarterback if he works his butt off. I bet he can, but he'll still likely be one of the worst 5 starting QB's in the league. Is that what you guys would want if he were still here? Good argument - "i told you he could do it, Elliot. He became a starting QB despite what you said." Yea but he's one of the worst in the league, and one that his franchise wont be hesitant to move on from. Who really wins that argument?
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PackAtBroncos07 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'll wait for anyone to just answer this one question. If Tim Tebow is so obviously an NFL caliber long-term franchise QB, then why were all 32 teams hesitant to pick him up or keep him? Why is his only landing spot as a 3rd string QB with no guaranteed roster spot? Surely if he's as good as everyone says, then he should have no problem landing on an NFL roster...hell, by what most people say, he should have teams banging the doors down for him. So why don't they? Why do the people who have the job of assembling talent not want Tebow? Could it be that :gasp: he just isn't that talented????

You asked more than one question!!!!

You dont make an NFL roster unless your talented. Enough of people saying hes not. Thats got to be the most ignorant thought NFL "fans" can have. Hes talented. Quit arguing that. He got drafted in the 1st round, STARTED on an NFL team that went to the playoffs, won a playoff game, was traded for ACTUAL draft picks and then signed by the smartest coach in the NFL today. Hes got talent.

If you were to have any argument, it would be "Can he improve his throwing mechanics?" Thats the only argument against the guy. And in the offense with the Pats, its the best offense for his skillset. Plus, he re-unites a very smart coach that thinks he can fix him.

Broncos fans should be more appreciative of what Tebow did in Denver. Without his play, yes HIS PLAY, they likely wouldnt have landed Peyton Manning and be where they are right now. Remember, Kyle Orton was 1-4 before Tebow took over.


This.

Argument over.

Dude, Elloit, do you even understand what you're saying? What is your definition of the perfect QB? A man with such a ridiculous arm that he literally doesn't have to move to make every throw he needs to? Bout as close as we have to that is Tom Brady and he can't even do it. Peyton's ability to shuffle in the pocket is his greatest strength coupled with his arm strength and accuracy, but good luck calling much play action roll outs or gaining any yards on the ground with him. You thing about the QB that people don't understand is that you can treat it like a ball carrier and make it dynamic, multi-dimensional if you will. He's just the man that receives the snap. And that player can do what ever he wants with it, hand it off, throw it, don't look at any receivers and try to just flat out run with it, run play action. I can't explain it much better than that. You say Tim isn't talented when he can literally do all those things. It just doesn't make sense. There are only a few QB's that can also do all those in this league right now at as high a level as him (Russel Wilson, RG3, Colin Kaepernick, and maybe Andrew Luck to an extent). But Russel is short and it hinders him, RG3 is breakable, Colin is more talented than Tebow I think but Tebow has better running vision and less of a risk for injury, and Luck is a huge injury risk running power QB runs or option plays.

You see it yet? Do you see the possibilities?


Did you really just ask me if I understand what I'm saying and then go on to compare Tim Tebow to the best young quarterbacks in the game today?

Just to break it down for you, you compared Tim Tebow, a guy who wasn't offered a starting job in the CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE to the best young quarterbacks in the NFL.

Here's the difference between the dual threat quarterbacks you listed, and Tim Tebow. Those guys are actually dual threat quarterbacks. They can all throw accurately, get the ball out quick and hit targets. Tebow's not a dual threat QB because he can't throw accurately or get the ball out quick enough. He lacks the throwing portion of the dual threat.

Maybe you just saw his fantasy points as a starter and assumed he's good. Have you seen him play. Or those other guys you listed? I'm not so sure, not after those Tebow comparisons, and not after saying how Russell Wilson's lack of height hinders him - how? He was unbelievable last year. I suppose Drew Brees lack of height has hindered him too though, right?
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PackAtBroncos07


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
PackAtBroncos07 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'll wait for anyone to just answer this one question. If Tim Tebow is so obviously an NFL caliber long-term franchise QB, then why were all 32 teams hesitant to pick him up or keep him? Why is his only landing spot as a 3rd string QB with no guaranteed roster spot? Surely if he's as good as everyone says, then he should have no problem landing on an NFL roster...hell, by what most people say, he should have teams banging the doors down for him. So why don't they? Why do the people who have the job of assembling talent not want Tebow? Could it be that :gasp: he just isn't that talented????

You asked more than one question!!!!

You dont make an NFL roster unless your talented. Enough of people saying hes not. Thats got to be the most ignorant thought NFL "fans" can have. Hes talented. Quit arguing that. He got drafted in the 1st round, STARTED on an NFL team that went to the playoffs, won a playoff game, was traded for ACTUAL draft picks and then signed by the smartest coach in the NFL today. Hes got talent.

If you were to have any argument, it would be "Can he improve his throwing mechanics?" Thats the only argument against the guy. And in the offense with the Pats, its the best offense for his skillset. Plus, he re-unites a very smart coach that thinks he can fix him.

Broncos fans should be more appreciative of what Tebow did in Denver. Without his play, yes HIS PLAY, they likely wouldnt have landed Peyton Manning and be where they are right now. Remember, Kyle Orton was 1-4 before Tebow took over.


This.

Argument over.

Dude, Elloit, do you even understand what you're saying? What is your definition of the perfect QB? A man with such a ridiculous arm that he literally doesn't have to move to make every throw he needs to? Bout as close as we have to that is Tom Brady and he can't even do it. Peyton's ability to shuffle in the pocket is his greatest strength coupled with his arm strength and accuracy, but good luck calling much play action roll outs or gaining any yards on the ground with him. You thing about the QB that people don't understand is that you can treat it like a ball carrier and make it dynamic, multi-dimensional if you will. He's just the man that receives the snap. And that player can do what ever he wants with it, hand it off, throw it, don't look at any receivers and try to just flat out run with it, run play action. I can't explain it much better than that. You say Tim isn't talented when he can literally do all those things. It just doesn't make sense. There are only a few QB's that can also do all those in this league right now at as high a level as him (Russel Wilson, RG3, Colin Kaepernick, and maybe Andrew Luck to an extent). But Russel is short and it hinders him, RG3 is breakable, Colin is more talented than Tebow I think but Tebow has better running vision and less of a risk for injury, and Luck is a huge injury risk running power QB runs or option plays.

You see it yet? Do you see the possibilities?


Did you really just ask me if I understand what I'm saying and then go on to compare Tim Tebow to the best young quarterbacks in the game today?

Just to break it down for you, you compared Tim Tebow, a guy who wasn't offered a starting job in the CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE to the best young quarterbacks in the NFL.

Here's the difference between the dual threat quarterbacks you listed, and Tim Tebow. Those guys are actually dual threat quarterbacks. They can all throw accurately, get the ball out quick and hit targets. Tebow's not a dual threat QB because he can't throw accurately or get the ball out quick enough. He lacks the throwing portion of the dual threat.

Maybe you just saw his fantasy points as a starter and assumed he's good. Have you seen him play. Or those other guys you listed? I'm not so sure, not after those Tebow comparisons, and not after saying how Russell Wilson's lack of height hinders him - how? He was unbelievable last year. I suppose Drew Brees lack of height has hindered him too though, right?


How did Brees do without his play-caller that hid his weaknesses?
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PackAtBroncos07


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
PackAtBroncos07 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I'll wait for anyone to just answer this one question. If Tim Tebow is so obviously an NFL caliber long-term franchise QB, then why were all 32 teams hesitant to pick him up or keep him? Why is his only landing spot as a 3rd string QB with no guaranteed roster spot? Surely if he's as good as everyone says, then he should have no problem landing on an NFL roster...hell, by what most people say, he should have teams banging the doors down for him. So why don't they? Why do the people who have the job of assembling talent not want Tebow? Could it be that :gasp: he just isn't that talented????

You asked more than one question!!!!

You dont make an NFL roster unless your talented. Enough of people saying hes not. Thats got to be the most ignorant thought NFL "fans" can have. Hes talented. Quit arguing that. He got drafted in the 1st round, STARTED on an NFL team that went to the playoffs, won a playoff game, was traded for ACTUAL draft picks and then signed by the smartest coach in the NFL today. Hes got talent.

If you were to have any argument, it would be "Can he improve his throwing mechanics?" Thats the only argument against the guy. And in the offense with the Pats, its the best offense for his skillset. Plus, he re-unites a very smart coach that thinks he can fix him.

Broncos fans should be more appreciative of what Tebow did in Denver. Without his play, yes HIS PLAY, they likely wouldnt have landed Peyton Manning and be where they are right now. Remember, Kyle Orton was 1-4 before Tebow took over.


This.

Argument over.

Dude, Elloit, do you even understand what you're saying? What is your definition of the perfect QB? A man with such a ridiculous arm that he literally doesn't have to move to make every throw he needs to? Bout as close as we have to that is Tom Brady and he can't even do it. Peyton's ability to shuffle in the pocket is his greatest strength coupled with his arm strength and accuracy, but good luck calling much play action roll outs or gaining any yards on the ground with him. You thing about the QB that people don't understand is that you can treat it like a ball carrier and make it dynamic, multi-dimensional if you will. He's just the man that receives the snap. And that player can do what ever he wants with it, hand it off, throw it, don't look at any receivers and try to just flat out run with it, run play action. I can't explain it much better than that. You say Tim isn't talented when he can literally do all those things. It just doesn't make sense. There are only a few QB's that can also do all those in this league right now at as high a level as him (Russel Wilson, RG3, Colin Kaepernick, and maybe Andrew Luck to an extent). But Russel is short and it hinders him, RG3 is breakable, Colin is more talented than Tebow I think but Tebow has better running vision and less of a risk for injury, and Luck is a huge injury risk running power QB runs or option plays.

You see it yet? Do you see the possibilities?


Did you really just ask me if I understand what I'm saying and then go on to compare Tim Tebow to the best young quarterbacks in the game today?

Just to break it down for you, you compared Tim Tebow, a guy who wasn't offered a starting job in the CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE to the best young quarterbacks in the NFL.

Here's the difference between the dual threat quarterbacks you listed, and Tim Tebow. Those guys are actually dual threat quarterbacks. They can all throw accurately, get the ball out quick and hit targets. Tebow's not a dual threat QB because he can't throw accurately or get the ball out quick enough. He lacks the throwing portion of the dual threat.

Maybe you just saw his fantasy points as a starter and assumed he's good. Have you seen him play. Or those other guys you listed? I'm not so sure, not after those Tebow comparisons, and not after saying how Russell Wilson's lack of height hinders him - how? He was unbelievable last year. I suppose Drew Brees lack of height has hindered him too though, right?


You literally bore me.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One, I have no idea how such an inconsequential player has generated so much discussion. And I do not mean just here or even in the world of sports, I mean in the universe; apparently there was talk about Tebow on the "Today Show" this morning. It's embarrassing.

Tim Tebow was a great college football player whose game simply did not translate to the NFL. The history of football is littered with similar players; I shouldn't have to name names here. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who knows football and who watched Tim Tebow play quarterback for the Denver Broncos should have seen the same thing - someone who CANNOT play QB at a NFL level; he wasn't starting QB material, he wasn't backup material, he wasn't emergency QB material and, honestly, he wasn't even roster fluff material. Unfortunately, people on both sides of the "Tebow debate" wanted to make it about things other than the man's ability, or inability, to play QB in the NFL. For that, all are guilty of this patently ridiculous amount of hype.

I will be the first to raise my hand and say I bought into the Tebow! hype, but will also be the first to admit that I was wrong. After watching what transpired in the 2011 season and the absurd (not to mention wholly inaccurate and completely displaced) hype it generated, I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed as a Broncos fan, as a football fan, as a sports fan, as a sportswriter and, lastly, I was embarrassed for Tim Tebow. He was so far out of his depth. He's a good person but he cannot play QB.

More practically, I cannot understand why a franchise which presents itself as the epitome of professionalism would do this. The Jets, sure, they invite the circus to town but the Pats....? Wow.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
broncosfan07 wrote:
Oh yeah look at that throwing ability

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTFhkHK6t1A

I seriously wonder what people actually watch his throws look even worse in practice with no pressure on him.

Anyone can play that game. Perfect throw here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zuUIhv8z3M


There are A LOT more instances of the first type of throw than the second.

Not arguing that. But what 07 did was childish. Anyone can find a video of a bad pass. Heck, I bet I can find more bad passes from Manning too. It was a stupid post, so I made a stupid post.
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