Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Saints place 2nd round tender on RB Chris Ivory
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 41155
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Saints place 2nd round tender on RB Chris Ivory Reply with quote

Quote:
#Saints RB Chris Ivory has has been issued a second-round tender, according to a source.


http://twitter.com/LarryHolder/statuses/310187297112993792

That means that if a team wishes to sign him, they will have to send the Saints a 2nd round pick.

The Saints don't have a 2013 second round draft pick because of bountygate. This is one way to get one.

The former undrafted free-agent ran for 1,307 yards in his 3-year career under 256 carries [5.1 average per carry] and scored 8 TDs.
_________________
#JDI
Official Roster Cutdowns Thread
All Time Top Ten Safeties Ranking
Tom Brady Tribute
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Porter22


Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 2514
Location: Weyhe, Germany
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15841220#15841220

Too late mister Spikes! Laughing

No just kidding, good move, but I would love to see a team spending a 2nd rounder on him. Getting a 2nd round back, would be very very helpful, but I doubt it...
_________________
Adopt a Saint 2014:

QB Drew Brees - 1,203 YDs ; 7 TD ; 3 INT ; 71.4% Pct

DB Patrick Robinson - 12 Tackles, 3 PDefs, 1 INT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3294
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saints will not get a 2nd rounder for Ivory... I almost feel sorry for the dude, he will likely once again be stuck behind Thomas, Sproles & Ingram when he is clearly the most productive power back we have.

Sucks for him, gives us depth... Still, Ivory should be our starter!
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 48490
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is a dumb move by the Saints, personally. Ivory is very talented but they're not getting a 2nd. So unless they are going to trade him or Ingram/Thomas for compensation, they should have let him walk. It's just more cap tied up in the HB when they have too many players and not enough carries to go around.
_________________
The LBC wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Don't worry. Sean Payton would pass the ball in a Tornado.

But would he do it in a Sharknado?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3294
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I think this is a dumb move by the Saints, personally. Ivory is very talented but they're not getting a 2nd. So unless they are going to trade him or Ingram/Thomas for compensation, they should have let him walk. It's just more cap tied up in the HB when they have too many players and not enough carries to go around.


We'll have to wait and see... Maybe Payton seen enough last season from the couch to release Thomas or trade Ingram.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17848
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't think a team like Green Bay, who's picking late in the the draft, wouldn't offer a RB that has proven to be productive like Ivory has, a reasonable deal at around 3 million per year, which is still much cheaper than what the rest of the FA running backs will be looking for 5-7 million per year, and it only costs them a late 2nd round pick that they might've used on a RB but not one that can be considered a proven NFL player.

So yeah I think we could definitely see a team offer a contract that's rather cheap to Ivory and they just let him walk rather than paying an extra 1 mil than the tender would offer to get a 2nd round pick from it.
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3294
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
You don't think a team like Green Bay, who's picking late in the the draft, wouldn't offer a RB that has proven to be productive like Ivory has, a reasonable deal at around 3 million per year, which is still much cheaper than what the rest of the FA running backs will be looking for 5-7 million per year, and it only costs them a late 2nd round pick that they might've used on a RB but not one that can be considered a proven NFL player.

So yeah I think we could definitely see a team offer a contract that's rather cheap to Ivory and they just let him walk rather than paying an extra 1 mil than the tender would offer to get a 2nd round pick from it.


Absurd, will not happen! Your overvaluing Ivory... Is he worth a late 3rd to mid 4th, sure but a 2nd all be it a late 2nd... NO!

Far to injury prone and plays a position that has been proven to be found much later in the draft. Then you mention Green Bay, Ted Thompson hardly ever trades draft picks away, especially 2nd rounders.

I can see a desperate team like maybe Denver trying to get that power back (which if they had they would have beaten Baltimore) to try to get over the hump but still not at a price on a #2.

What's happening here is a lot of fans feel that because we don't have a 2nd rounder that we need to get one. Then they start to figure out ways that can happen and begin to overvalue our own personnel. Ivoy happens to be a popular name in this because a lot of fans see him as a moveable asset, one of the only pieces like that the saints possess but that dosent make him worth a 2nd round selection.

It's like overvaluing a draft prospect simply because you need help at that position. Just because there is a need does not make a player better than others ahead of him.

Chris Ivory is not worth a 2nd round pick... talented, yes! 3rd-4th round maybe, a 2nd hell no!
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 23078
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
I think this is a dumb move by the Saints, personally. Ivory is very talented but they're not getting a 2nd. So unless they are going to trade him or Ingram/Thomas for compensation, they should have let him walk. It's just more cap tied up in the HB when they have too many players and not enough carries to go around.

Eh. He's capable of being a starting HB, and were only paying him a shade over a million. Why would we let him walk for nothing? Injuries happen, I'd rather keep him around as depth then have him go to Atlanta and destroy us twice a year. It was a smart move.
_________________

RTR
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17848
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Raves wrote:
You don't think a team like Green Bay, who's picking late in the the draft, wouldn't offer a RB that has proven to be productive like Ivory has, a reasonable deal at around 3 million per year, which is still much cheaper than what the rest of the FA running backs will be looking for 5-7 million per year, and it only costs them a late 2nd round pick that they might've used on a RB but not one that can be considered a proven NFL player.

So yeah I think we could definitely see a team offer a contract that's rather cheap to Ivory and they just let him walk rather than paying an extra 1 mil than the tender would offer to get a 2nd round pick from it.


Absurd, will not happen! Your overvaluing Ivory... Is he worth a late 3rd to mid 4th, sure but a 2nd all be it a late 2nd... NO!

Far to injury prone and plays a position that has been proven to be found much later in the draft. Then you mention Green Bay, Ted Thompson hardly ever trades draft picks away, especially 2nd rounders.

I can see a desperate team like maybe Denver trying to get that power back (which if they had they would have beaten Baltimore) to try to get over the hump but still not at a price on a #2.

What's happening here is a lot of fans feel that because we don't have a 2nd rounder that we need to get one. Then they start to figure out ways that can happen and begin to overvalue our own personnel. Ivoy happens to be a popular name in this because a lot of fans see him as a moveable asset, one of the only pieces like that the saints possess but that dosent make him worth a 2nd round selection.

It's like overvaluing a draft prospect simply because you need help at that position. Just because there is a need does not make a player better than others ahead of him.

Chris Ivory is not worth a 2nd round pick... talented, yes! 3rd-4th round maybe, a 2nd hell no!


Now you are overvaluing draft picks, especially in a draft that lacks any real talent at RB, none that looks as good as Ivory does, and you are also undervaluing the RB position. Now granted had this been Pierre Thomas and not Chris Ivory, in regards to age, being tendered, their production etc, I would agree as Thomas has proven to be a little more versatile, bu you are also undervaluing the RB position greatly.

Yes teams aren't willing to spend a buttload of money on running backs as they can find capable running backs in the 2nd rounds or later, but in a draft that lacks a running back that not only lacks a true first round talent, but the best RB options that could come in and contribute early via draft are both going to be gone by mid 2nd round in Lacy and Giovanni. Then you look at the real crop of FA running backs. Every running back that would take a team like Green Bay or Denver, since you added them for me thank you for that, will be looking at 5-7 million a year minimum on a 3+ year contract. It's being rumored that Stephen Jackson will be getting a contract in the vicinity of 3yr 21 million. That's a running back with injury concerns, 30 y/o, and more. So you look at what's going to be there in FA, if a team like Denver or Green Bay, both of which are a good power running game to take off pressure from the passing game, who are looking to win immediately, aren't willing to shell out the extra money, it wouldn't be surprising to see them go after a guy like Ivory who although will cost them a late 2nd round pick, is better than any option in the draft.

I might be the only one here, but when if I was a GM and I was looking at the draft and free agency getting ready to put together a plan of attack on filling my needs to continue putting together a Super Bowl contender, I would look at RFAs the same way I do draft prospects. In essence I would have 3 big boards, which seems like a lot. The first big board would be of vets and how I would grade them out, this would include RFA, on a scale of 1-100 on how impactful they will continue to be as well as for my team, granted this is only for positions that I will be looking at signing players at, for the Saints that would be OLB, DL, DB, and possibly OT. I would then also take into account on that big board how much it would likely cost to sign them, because let's be honest we all rate the top FAs high but the cost to sign them would make it impossible to do so. For RFA I would also rank them with if they were in this draft what round grade I would put them at, possibly even giving them a slight boost/knock due to the fact they are already proven depending on production injuries.

I would then make a board of all the draft prospects I'm looking at, how they grade out, what round pick I would be willing to spend on them and also where I expect that player to be picked, and organize it accordingly.

I would then have a 3rd board, that would combine my draft prospects with the RFAs. If when looking at my draft board, I see that a RFA has a higher grade than I put on all the players that are likely to be available at my pick at a position of need, unless I spend a higher pick than I would want to draft a player of similar to just slightly higher caliber, than I would likely be more prone to go after that RFA, at least put a minimal contract offer in, and see what happens.

If Chris Ivory was in this draft, knowing what we know about his production and his injuries, he would likely grade out in the top 4 of the running backs with Lacy, Giovanni, and Bernard. With his NFL experience, although with some minor injuries, nothing serious just some hamstring issues which might not even be accurate since the Saints do have so many capable running backs it might've just been the reasoning they kept him out although he would've otherwise been able to play, I would actually probably put him tied or just behind Lacy, and just slightly behind Giovanni with a 2nd round grade on him, as no RB has shown to be worth a 1st in this draft.

So now you are the Packers/Denver and both are looking at the FA market and unless they want to spend 5-7 million dollars, 2-4 million more than a contract to get Ivory would cost, on a RB that is 27+, has more injury concerns than Ivory, over 30 years old, or draft an unproven running back that who knows if they translate into a productive player for a playoff team that will be grading out lower than they did Ivory, why not go after him?

I'm not saying it's likely, or even that I feel if we were simply looking to trade Ivory, that we would get a 2nd round pick, but he's young, with the exception of some hamstring injuries, which I doubt the severity of, he's been healthy, and when given a chance has been extremely productive IN THE NFL, looking at this current draft class, I could see a team picking late that would be looking at drafting a RB, willing to give a small contract offer to Ivory to pick him up on a small contract compared to the rest of the FA RBs and give up a pick that likely would've went towards a player they didn't regard as highly, or at worst makes the Saints pay a little more to retain him.

On top of that Denver has little money to spend, only about 9 million based on one article, so they won't be in the Stephen Jackson/Reggie Bush/Ahmad Bradshaw sweepstakes, Green Bay has about 20 million but they need to resign Greg Jennings and will likely look to use a good bit of their money to shore up the OL, such as going after our own La Puente if he's not resigned or the Titans' center, so they won't likely be in the sweepstakes either but I wouldn't be surprised if they made a move on Jackson/Bush though as they would fit their system well.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013RB.php

4th ranked RB in free agency, probably comes cheaper than the rest, only 25 y/o, and more prone to produce than a drafted running back, I could see a team wanting to go cheap giving up a 2nd for Ivory as a RFA THIS YEAR ONLY.

If this was discussed last year I wouldn't have considered it at all, but there is a definite lack of depth at RB in this draft, none are worth even a late 1st so they would likely want to trade back and pick them up in the early to mid 2nd, but won't be there by the end of it in Lacy/Giovanni, getting a guy like Ivory, provided a team does their due diligence and works him out/interviews him like they would any FA, I could see a Denver or Green Bay giving up a late 2nd round pick that fills a need cheaply, is better than they would expect to get from the draft, and I could see the Saints letting him walk for even as little as 500k extra a year due to wanting another pick and 3 already more than capable running backs already on the roster.

So yes, Ivory COULD be signed and a team like Denver or Green Bay giving up a 2nd round pick for him. IMO both teams have 2 options, over pay for one of the better running backs in FA, give a similar contract to a worse RB in FA and hope it works out, I'll call it the Cedric Benson solution, reach for a RB in the draft that you know won't be there in the 2nd, or reach for a running back in the 2nd that you don't feel will be there in the 3rd, and still not as good as Ivory.

Based off WalterFootball mock drafts, which typically are pretty good, they had originally had Denver taking RB Eddie Lacy in the first but have recently switched it to John Hankins as Denver needs interior DL help bad, then top 2 RBs then go in the 2nd round by pick 40, Giovanni to Cinci at 37 as BJGE has some concerns and would compliment him, and Lacy to the Jets at 39 who are likely to part ways with subpar Shonn Greene and would need to fill the position. The next RB drafted based on their mock isn't until Green Bay in the 3rd with Knile Davis followed by Denver in the 3rd with Montee Ball.

They have both Green Bay and Denver drafting a WR in the 2nd round. So in short, yes I think both Denver and Green Bay could definitely look to sign Ivory, giving up a 2nd round pick for a RB that easily is in the same grade as Lacy/Giovanni and better than the rest of the backs after them.
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 23078
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. Absolutely no chance of us getting a 2nd round pick for Chris Ivory. None. HBs don't hold a lot of value in today's NFL. Worms 100% right here.
_________________

RTR
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
navysaintsfan


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 11252
Location: Frednecksburg, VA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gallette and DLP also given 2nd round tenders.
_________________

Adopt-A-Saint:
Kenny Vaccaro 28 Tkls 2 PD 1 SCK
Ben Watson 9 Rec 64 Yds
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3294
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not falling for the argument... No team will give up a 2nd round pick on a injury prone running back who's been in the league 4 years. Any other position, maybe. Had Ivory remained healthy throughout his career and been more productive (whether by his fault of the teams) I could maybe see your argument.

The fact is that Ivory is a power back in a passing league that uses up backs and spits them out. Unless your a special talent like AP (which Ivory is not) then no team is going to build around you. Ivory is good at what he does but the simply fact is that your overvaluing him because you see what he can do up close and have a level of belief in him that might not be viewed as such around the league.

Most from the outside feel Ivory is a very good back but injury prone with a rugged running style that is likely to lead to more injuries. He's a solid starter and great backup but not a game changer and not reliable enough to cough up a long term contract and a 2nd rounder to boot.
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Raves


Moderator
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 17848
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Not falling for the argument... No team will give up a 2nd round pick on a injury prone running back who's been in the league 4 years. Any other position, maybe. Had Ivory remained healthy throughout his career and been more productive (whether by his fault of the teams) I could maybe see your argument.

The fact is that Ivory is a power back in a passing league that uses up backs and spits them out. Unless your a special talent like AP (which Ivory is not) then no team is going to build around you. Ivory is good at what he does but the simply fact is that your overvaluing him because you see what he can do up close and have a level of belief in him that might not be viewed as such around the league.

Most from the outside feel Ivory is a very good back but injury prone with a rugged running style that is likely to lead to more injuries. He's a solid starter and great backup but not a game changer and not reliable enough to cough up a long term contract and a 2nd rounder to boot.


Now look at the draft, what RB would you not say the same thing about with the exception of two.

The contract mentioned isn't big, a 2nd round pick when you are looking for a RB and your next best option is drafting Knile Davis a round early or hoping he's there, which has his own injury concerns, or paying 5-7+ million per year for Jackson/Bush/Bradshaw over 3 years, your next best option becomes Shonn Greene and Mendenhall... both are injury prone, both are less productive, and will still cost a team around 3 million a year.

So you take a guy that's been buried on a team that uses a lot of specialty packages, so he has low miles, only ~260 carries, but averages 5.1 ypc and has 8 TDs, a 2nd round pick, for someone that has proven he can do that on a pass first team, which means his power will make their nickel packages even more suspect like he did for the Saints, he'll be able to continue that throughout an entire year. If you would spend a 2nd round pick on Lacy or Giovanni from the draft, then not being willing to spend it on Ivory is stupid.

Now I'm not saying that we will get a 2nd for him, as mentioned some team might work out a trade for less, maybe a late 3rd or 4th, but to say he isn't worth a 2nd when you take everything into account, isn't true IMO. Had this been last years draft, I agree. I think next years draft looks pretty good too, but this year, well the RB talent just stinks.
_________________

2013 Adopt-A-Saint
TE Jimmy Graham-86 rec, 1215 yds, 16 TDs
WR Kenny Still-34 rec, 641 yds, 5 TDs
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 23078
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be ecstatic to get a 4th for Ivory. He isn't worth more than that regardless of how bad this draft class is.
_________________

RTR
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Thought someone broke into my house.
Jumped out of bed (left my brother)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3294
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not buying it... I agree with Harp here, getting a 4th would be about all we'd land for Ivory.

As far as the draft, you say the talent is bad at RB but that doesn't mean teams will give up a premium pick for another teams backup. By the way, wasent Ivory an undrafted FA?

RB's can be found everywhere... even in bad drafts and even after the draft. It is just not a position you get crazy with. (unless your the Saints of course, we the only team stupid enough to trade valuable assets for depth at a low value position which is one of the reasons were in the situation were in)!
_________________


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk958n5n66o
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New Orleans Saints All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group