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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7402
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5214
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.


The problem with the "I just want to fix the trenches" position is it doesn't follow that this years crop of FA, our abilities in FA, and this years draft fit the fix the trenches mentality. Even if this is a defensive line heavy draft, I think its a LE, UT, and 3-4 DE heavy draft. Which is what the Raiders team has been stuck with the last 6 years. We need some NT's and pass rushers. If the players warrant the price and the draft position then so be it. But its not wise to chase the big nasty's at all expense, both in cost and attention to other positions. You could have a studded line with Ross and Chekwa as your CB's and Matt Cassel would look like Peyton. Well maybe not that extreme Laughing But something along those lines.
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3986
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DarthDavis wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.


The problem with the "I just want to fix the trenches" position is it doesn't follow that this years crop of FA, our abilities in FA, and this years draft fit the fix the trenches mentality. Even if this is a defensive line heavy draft, I think its a LE, UT, and 3-4 DE heavy draft. Which is what the Raiders team has been stuck with the last 6 years. We need some NT's and pass rushers. If the players warrant the price and the draft position then so be it. But its not wise to chase the big nasty's at all expense, both in cost and attention to other positions. You could have a studded line with Ross and Chekwa as your CB's and Matt Cassel would look like Peyton. Well maybe not that extreme Laughing But something along those lines.


That may or may not be the case, but either way that makes an OT a viable option. Fisher or Joeckel seem like reliable picks. I assume that is what he meant by "both sides" of the trenches as opposed to both sides of the defensive line.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7402
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justwinbaby81 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.


The problem with the "I just want to fix the trenches" position is it doesn't follow that this years crop of FA, our abilities in FA, and this years draft fit the fix the trenches mentality. Even if this is a defensive line heavy draft, I think its a LE, UT, and 3-4 DE heavy draft. Which is what the Raiders team has been stuck with the last 6 years. We need some NT's and pass rushers. If the players warrant the price and the draft position then so be it. But its not wise to chase the big nasty's at all expense, both in cost and attention to other positions. You could have a studded line with Ross and Chekwa as your CB's and Matt Cassel would look like Peyton. Well maybe not that extreme Laughing But something along those lines.


That may or may not be the case, but either way that makes an OT a viable option. Fisher or Joeckel seem like reliable picks. I assume that is what he meant by "both sides" of the trenches as opposed to both sides of the defensive line.


Yes, exactly. In addition obviously Darth is higher on Bryant than I am.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 2428
Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Adams is an unknown. He played well, but seriously? Some are ready to start him?

Adams, Chekwa, Ross - these guys are not starters IMO. Not now.

Get me at least 1 solid CB. I like Kennan Lewis in FA personally.


Adams got better with PT as young players do, truth is he's probably our best CB on our roster...give me a solid CB and I'd be fine with Adams starting...We can only fill so many holes and unless we take Milliner or throw money at the position, Adams will be a big piece in our secondary
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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Location: Long Beach, Ca
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.


Mike Jenkins at the right price would be nice...
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5214
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
DarthDavis wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
Sadly . . .

I could care less who the Raiders Cbs are. Fix the trenches. Weak on both sides. This will take more than a season. I just want to see "smart" signings a la 2012 even they don't pan out. ex- Mike Jenkins.


The problem with the "I just want to fix the trenches" position is it doesn't follow that this years crop of FA, our abilities in FA, and this years draft fit the fix the trenches mentality. Even if this is a defensive line heavy draft, I think its a LE, UT, and 3-4 DE heavy draft. Which is what the Raiders team has been stuck with the last 6 years. We need some NT's and pass rushers. If the players warrant the price and the draft position then so be it. But its not wise to chase the big nasty's at all expense, both in cost and attention to other positions. You could have a studded line with Ross and Chekwa as your CB's and Matt Cassel would look like Peyton. Well maybe not that extreme Laughing But something along those lines.


That may or may not be the case, but either way that makes an OT a viable option. Fisher or Joeckel seem like reliable picks. I assume that is what he meant by "both sides" of the trenches as opposed to both sides of the defensive line.


Yes, exactly. In addition obviously Darth is higher on Bryant than I am.


Alright but you are just talking about one pick at one position. The defensive line was an example to your position to "fix the trenches at all cost" mentality. Mainly because well this is a thread about DB's not OT's. Further your statement started by talking about CB's.

Bryant?[
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11135
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
Can't rely on rookies at CB anymore than you can rely on them at DE/rush LB.

So...how can we best address one hole while masking others? Upgrade the pass rush as best you can. Tried and true.


Draft and FA. Pass rushers first, followed by CBs. I'm fine with that.

Problem is, I don't see an impact pass rusher in the draft. And the FA class is going to price Oakland out of their market.


I thought you were so in love with Bjoern Werner? What happened with that?
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Posts: 11135
Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Adams is an unknown. He played well, but seriously? Some are ready to start him?

Adams, Chekwa, Ross - these guys are not starters IMO. Not now.

Get me at least 1 solid CB. I like Kennan Lewis in FA personally.


+1

I crack up when I read posts that tout these guys as possible starters next season. I have to wonder if people really believe that this group of CB's is good enough to go into battle with next year. One bad game and they will all be calling Reggie out for not upgrading the position when he had the chance early in free agency.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 12678
Location: CA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
Can't rely on rookies at CB anymore than you can rely on them at DE/rush LB.

So...how can we best address one hole while masking others? Upgrade the pass rush as best you can. Tried and true.


Draft and FA. Pass rushers first, followed by CBs. I'm fine with that.

Problem is, I don't see an impact pass rusher in the draft. And the FA class is going to price Oakland out of their market.


I thought you were so in love with Bjoern Werner? What happened with that?


Werner's a base end. We already have Lamarr Houston playing there.
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DOCLEW 28


Joined: 10 Nov 2006
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Location: East Oakland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind having two Lamar Houstons as book ends. The kid has proven that he can get to the passer. I find it funny that DE's are labeled like this when they are obviously pass rushers. In 19 years of coaching I have never pulled a kid off the field because we already had a "base" DE on the field if they were both adept at getting to the passer.

I'm just sayin. Confused
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 2859
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOCLEW 28 wrote:
I wouldn't mind having two Lamar Houstons as book ends. The kid has proven that he can get to the passer. I find it funny that DE's are labeled like this when they are obviously pass rushers. In 19 years of coaching I have never pulled a kid off the field because we already had a "base" DE on the field if they were both adept at getting to the passer.

I'm just sayin. Confused

10 sacks in 3 years...not what I'm looking for in a pass rusher...
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1409
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With this FA class and a decent draft class there is no reason why we can't bolster both the pass rush and the DB situation.

If, for example we could draft a guy like Werner, Carradine or Moore (I'm thinking we stay in a 4-3 and if the above work out Smile ) then add a guy like Porter who has links with Dennis Allen and has a lot to prove or Greg Toler of Arizona who i like a lot with plenty of upside we could with a bit of luck have a big effect on the pass defence.

Pass rusher is obviously first priority when addressing the pass defence but there is plenty of scope for multiple moves. I wouldn't want Mike Jenkins, really bad fit for what we're trying to do IMO.
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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
Location: Saturn
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after seeing Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie go for a 1 year $5m deal, this sets a fairly low bar for the other CB's. Indeed the depth in this years CB class may be playing to our advantage. As we have a young (imo high potential) group already in Ross, Chekwa, Adams, Francies, Taiwan Jones, maybe we should just go for a 1-year high experience guy like Quentin Jammer or Nnamdi (remember how Eric Allen showed even aging CB's can hold it together sometimes). Thos two guys are certain to command less than Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (who was a great signing by the dangerous looking Broncos by the way)
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DarthDavis


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5214
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
after seeing Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie go for a 1 year $5m deal, this sets a fairly low bar for the other CB's. Indeed the depth in this years CB class may be playing to our advantage. As we have a young (imo high potential) group already in Ross, Chekwa, Adams, Francies, Taiwan Jones, maybe we should just go for a 1-year high experience guy like Quentin Jammer or Nnamdi (remember how Eric Allen showed even aging CB's can hold it together sometimes). Thos two guys are certain to command less than Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (who was a great signing by the dangerous looking Broncos by the way)


I miss Eric Allen. One of my favorite Raider CB's. We haven't had a player like him since,.....well.....him.
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