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Dave Caldwell's "Draft History"
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
I don't think Gabbert is in a similar situation as Jon Kitna or Drew Brees.


In which way?

And I'm sure you could see my argument with Alfie, explaining why it's okay to wait. So I don't disagree with the mentality. I just think he's higher on the list than alluded to.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs


Every QB in this class has significant flaws. A handful have significant strengths too.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs


Every QB in this class has significant flaws. A handful have significant strengths too.


Okay...fill me in Wink
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs


Every QB in this class has significant flaws. A handful have significant strengths too.


Okay...fill me in Wink


On which part?

Either way it'll have to wait because I have a meeting soon.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll preface this by saying I think every QB in this class is best off not starting immediately. Some may be able to, but they better have help around them and fans better be able to take the lumps.

First off, I'm not going to focus on the pros of Geno. We already know them and you're already hard on his bandwagon. I will discuss his significant weaknesses/concerns.

- Hops when back to pass. This causes him to either 1) throw without his feet set that leads to inaccurate and uncatchable balls or 2) have to take extra time to get set to pass which may decrease production and even tip defenders on the NFL level well enough to intercept more of his passes.

- Streaky. When he gets in a rut, he stays in a rut for a while. We saw that this past season, specifically in the middle of the year when WVU had their losing streak.

- Struggles going through reads. Often is one-read and go or one-read, ditch, and improvise (note: ditch as in stops reading and just looks around, not ditch as in run like Vick would do)

- Maturity. He has a bit of a chip on his shoulder which isn't bad, but it seems like he cares too much what people think of him. That much is evident if you follow him on Twitter.

- Upside. It is hard to gauge his upside. His issues are correctable, but the amount that they provide in terms of his ceiling may be limited. He can be a good/great QB, but can he be elite? I think he has the capability, but I think he's a couple levels behind Matt Ryan who is arguably the best comparison to him.

Now, lettuce talk about the other QBs. For the sake of organization, though I severely dislike walterfootball, I'm just going to go in order of their rankings.

These will be less-detailed.

Mike Glennon

- Bad decision making and inconsistent accuracy. Fundamentally is a mess. Has size and big arm so there is potential. Worse version of Brock Osweiler as a prospect, but may go higher due to weak QB class. Not a candidate for us IMO.

Matt Barkley

- Will go in first round so he is not an option for us. This past season brought up a lot of well-documented concerns. My biggest concern remains from his season prior. Does not appear to have ability to make all the throws. In terms of pure arm strength, he has a stronger-than-advertised arm, but when making the tough throws - ie: 20 yard outs at sideline, etc - he does not appear to have the strength.

Tyler Wilson

- Concerns over arm strength, durability, and upside. Could be candidate in second round. He's my favorite potential QB in round two. Insane accuracy and he gives off a positive vibe. Very smart guy. In contrast of Barkley, may not throw the ball 50+ as well or however you want to put it, but he can make all the throws. Intelligence and accuracy are the big ones though. Hard to compare him to someone, but a taller, less interception-prone version of Drew Brees is a possibility, in my opinion.

E.J. Manuel

- Poor version of Blaine Gabbert. Why take him when we already have Blaine Gabbert?

Tyler Bray

- He's an immature idiot with bad production despite talent around him. Has physical ability, but will never make it.

Ryan Nassib

- Underrated. Similar to Tyler Wilson in that there are concerns about his arm strength and deep ball accuracy. His deep ball, at the combine/pro day or whatever, is reported as having been completely changed which does not surprise me - he had a different deep ball mechanic when he began his career at Syracuse, but adjusted it to hang/drift more due to slow WRs at the beginning of his career. Could be sleeper in 2nd-4th. Smart, accurate, team leader. Still a project though.

Zac Dysert

- Played better when in pro system. Has ability to get a lot out of nothing. Performs well under duress. Questions on arm strength, but all the tape I have seen suggests he has ability to make all the throws and has a stronger pure arm than Barkley who may go first round. In the same range as Nassib.

Landry Jones

- Worse version of Mike Glennon who is a worse version of Brock Osweiler. Could be selected late, but likely is overdrafted.

Matt Scott

- This is the last one I am doing. Has the connection to our QB coach. We were a heavy presence at Arizona's pro day where he was impressive. Raw and inexperienced, but is very, very athletic which is what we like. A lot of kinks in his play that, if worked out, could be fixed and help transcend him. Team player, but self-motivated to get better. Arizona ran a lot of trash screens last year during his extended play at QB, so in that way there is limited film. Range is 3rd-6th. I hope we grab him 4th or 5th.

Review that I did a couple months back

Quote:
Just reviewed Matt Scott vs USC (2012)

- Seems to alternate between 1) just rifling it on his backfoot & 2) slouching back & semi-shoulder-throwing it

- One of the most caddiewhompous throwing motions I've seen. Seems like with some work, he could have better arm talent than expected.

- What I'm seeing is a mess in mechanics and a lot of one-read/garbage screens that warrant his late-round status.

- Enough arm talent though to also warrant a selection late and a spot on the roster or PS for at least a year or two.

- Looks almost like a smaller-framed less-talented version of Jake Locker (as a prospect)

- A lot of one-read crap but when it's not there he doesn't panic. Keeps eyes downfield. Low delivery point. lots of batted passes.

- Dan Buckner may also be worth a late round selection. Excited for Austin Hill if he is available in 2014.

- I'll retain my 6th round grade on Matt Scott, but I'm more inclined to see him as the selection in that area than before as a project.

Worthy to note:

When I do reviews like this, I try to go through it and gather thoughts while trying to pretend like it is the first time I am seeing the prospects. Helps with the objectivity. At the end, I combine those thoughts with prior thoughts for my ending thought.

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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the list AF, thanks for the insight. I dont understand the Bray love at all
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
I like the list AF, thanks for the insight. I dont understand the Bray love at all


I don't think very many people do at this point. Laughing


There's always gonna be a few folks who fall in love with his 'big arm' and think they can 'fix him' though. Rolling Eyes
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corry


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs


Every QB in this class has significant flaws. A handful have significant strengths too.


Okay...fill me in Wink


On which part?

Either way it'll have to wait because I have a meeting soon.



You're either a fancy pants, or attending AA.
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

corry wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
If we dont bring in Geno, i dont want to draft a QB


I want to draft a QB, but not at #2


i just dont like any other QBs


Every QB in this class has significant flaws. A handful have significant strengths too.


Okay...fill me in Wink


On which part?

Either way it'll have to wait because I have a meeting soon.



You're either a fancy pants, or attending AA.


I'm a college student which means that someday I will attend AA.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must have missed that college lesson
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So AF, do you see the things pointing towards Geno now?
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
So AF, do you see the things pointing towards Geno now?


The case certainly could be made now, yes. I'm not anti-Geno and I'm not stubborn to the point where I'll sacrifice objectivity. Before, nothing pointed to him. Now, obviously, the case can be made for him...

... and Tavon Austin.
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