Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Dave Caldwell's "Draft History"
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Jacksonville Jaguars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Give us a little insight into the Julio Jones trade

We had a very good franchise quarterback in Matt Ryan, our young quarterback. We had a good receiver in Roddy White and we were really looking for a compliment to him or someone to come in after Roddy is on the tail end of his career in two to three years and take over that number one role. Where our team was at the time, I think we were number one in draft retention, so we had about 27 of our 30 players we drafted on our roster and we just felt like a lot of those picks we were trading we were going to have to draft them to cut them or cut some players on our roster that we liked. It was just a point where we were at with our team. Also, which we'll do here, we'll start scouting not only this year's draft but future drafts. So we kind of looked at the receiver class and some of the other value positions we'd be drafting in the first round last year, whether it be offensive tackle, defensive end and felt like if we were picking in that 20 to 32 range, that it wasn't that big of a gamble to give up that future one for a dynamic player like Julio.


http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2013/3/9/4078784/david-caldwell-1010xl-interview-transcript
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That interview, along with what we already know, makes me feel like we aren't going Geno at #2.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 83150
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
That interview, along with what we already know, makes me feel like we aren't going Geno at #2.


I'm sure you're happy to hear that
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
That interview, along with what we already know, makes me feel like we aren't going Geno at #2.


I'm sure you're happy to hear that


I like Geno...
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JaguarCrazy2832


Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 83150
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
That interview, along with what we already know, makes me feel like we aren't going Geno at #2.


I'm sure you're happy to hear that


I like Geno...


But not at 2?...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
That interview, along with what we already know, makes me feel like we aren't going Geno at #2.


I'm sure you're happy to hear that


I like Geno...


But not at 2?...


I don't think he's a likely selection at #2 given everything that has been said and done up to this point. I would prefer not to select him at #2 because I believe there are better routes for us and that Gabbert gets one last year to prove himself - which is essentially what the organization has been saying up to this point.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iPwn


Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 45492
Location: Warbortles Nation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Geno is still a possibility.

If a team does it right, they can select Geno at #2 and still have a QB competition. Liken it somewhat to how the Brees/Rivers situation went down. Yes, Brees was ultimately given the job based on his ability to perform when Rivers was holding out, but you can do it in a similar way. There's certainly a precident for other QBs taken at the top of drafts being forced to win the job. Carson Palmer comes to mind, and he was taken #1 overall.

Overall, it comes down to how everything is viewed. Does Caldwell see Geno as Matt Ryan? Does he see a mid-round QB as Russel Wilson? Does he see us in position to get a QB next year? Does he view the pass rush group as having strong options later?

Certain things point away from Geno, but I think some other things point towards him as well. There's not enough either way for me to really say with certainty that he's going or not going to be the pick.
_________________

- Best since day one -
The road to success is always under construction - Gus Bradley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you provide examples of things that point toward Geno?

I've become less confident that we're going to select a LEO and Geno is certainly a possibility, but everything I've seen points away from taking a QB.

I'm also not sure how sold I am on the Brees/Rivers comparison. Brees wasn't a top 10 selection and the outcome ended up "favorable" for them only because of Brees' injury. They let him walk, received little compensation, and went forward with Rivers. What happens if we draft Geno at #2, somehow Gabbert wins the starting job, and plays well? What do we do with Geno? If we trade him away, we likely don't get #2 compensation back.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iPwn


Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 45492
Location: Warbortles Nation
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Could you provide examples of things that point toward Geno?

I've become less confident that we're going to select a LEO and Geno is certainly a possibility, but everything I've seen points away from taking a QB.
The way that things are going point away from LEO at #2. The praise for mid-round LEOs being the main factor there. The Chiefs have brought in a QB, CB, retained their LT and WR. It's starting to become evident that they're going DT. With Star's heart condition, that leaves Floyd as the "most logical" pick for KC. They could still go Joeckel, but it's not that likely right now, if they were, they should have let Albert walk so they can spend more in FA than they are now, and they're already going big there. That leaves no one at DT worthy of the selection. There's no CB worthy of the selection, we don't need a RT at 2 plus Caldwell's pedigree doesn't point to early picks on o-linemen anyway, especially not someone who wouldn't be a LT. We have two young starters at WR, so there isn't a need there, and there's no RB worthy of that type of pick. The value at safety isn't there, and unless you're going rush LB (and it would be better to find a LEO that could do this), there's no value there.

So who is left? You've got Geno and the few 5-tech/REs or you can take a risk on Star. But the fact that they're negotiating with Terrance suggests they aren't completely sold on Star or Floyd (or a dislike for Alualu, but why keep him around at his salary then?). And there's a good group a 5-techs in the mid-rounds.

Then you look at the whole idea of competition everywhere...And the fact that there is going to be a QB brought in. Is there a better competition than the "two best QBs in this class"? I know that the offense will be tailored to the players, but I also think that Fisch would prefer his downfield style offense to be a big part of what they do. Gabbert has never really been a push it downfield guy, it was my biggest knock on him coming out. Clearly that's been compounded by the "safe" offensive philosophy that was pushed in him by Mularkey, the o-line problems, receiver issues and Blackmon running underneath routes for half the year, but I still think that's typically something he's always going to have; the west coast offense passing style. If Fisch wants the downfield style, Geno is the best fit from the draft for that.


I'm not saying that Geno is the most likely or anything like that. But if you were to name off 5 prospects that are most likely at this point, I think Geno has to be on that list.

Quote:
I'm also not sure how sold I am on the Brees/Rivers comparison. Brees wasn't a top 10 selection and the outcome ended up "favorable" for them only because of Brees' injury. They let him walk, received little compensation, and went forward with Rivers. What happens if we draft Geno at #2, somehow Gabbert wins the starting job, and plays well? What do we do with Geno? If we trade him away, we likely don't get #2 compensation back.
It was an example of how you can make it work, not necessarily how another team has done the same thing. Brees wasn't top ten, but at this point that doesn't matter. It's more how you can draft a QB early and then let the guy ahead of him still be the man. They were also going to let Brees walk regardless of the injury. His contract ended and they were confident enough in Rivers to hand everything over.

And I've already said that it's not ideal if both develop. I've mentioned several times that you don't want to pass on Larry Fitzgerald for Phillip Rivers when you already have Drew Brees. But you also don't want to take Reggie Williams over Ben Roethlisberger because you have Byron Leftwich either (Of course Gabbert over J.J. Watt too). I don't think you have to worry about the compensation you get for a QB though. The team isn't going to be good in every game, even if Gabbert turns it around. You play Geno in clean up duty, and if he plays well, you will get a very good deal for him. Teams will pay ridiculous amounts for mid/late round QBs who flash (Cassel, Kolb, Rob Johnson, Schaub, etc.) and for older game managers (Alex Smith) they will pay big for a first round QB who flashes. I can promise you that. You may not get #2 compensation, but you will get at least mid-first round value.

I've been "arguing" "in favor" and "against" drafting Geno for quite a while now and that's mainly because of inconsistencies in the argument on both sides. I like him as a prospect, and would be happy to see him in Jacksonville, but at the same time, I understand the other side as well. I've argued each side seemingly as nauseum.
_________________

- Best since day one -
The road to success is always under construction - Gus Bradley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like Chiefs are still going to select Joeckel. That's irrelevant though.

There are comments that point toward and away from LEO. All I have seen as far as the QB position goes though are comments that lead me to believe that the plan is not to select one at #2.

- Repeatedly talking about giving Gabbert another year and his age
- Frank Scelfo's comment
- Saying we'll "upgrade when we can"

from the interview I linked

- alluding to not selecting one high or selecting one at a later time
- discussing need to build base for a QB to be brought in to succeed - ties into selecting one later in process. Specifically mentioned Seattle and Wilson - 3-4 years down the road.

It doesn't really change anything for me if your view of the "process of elimination" leaves him there. Of course he's a possibility, but has anything been said about the QB position that leads you to believe we're going QB at #2?

We could go LEO, DT, CB. As much as I disagree with it, Milliner is as much of a likelihood as any other prospect. We can't eliminate anybody, including Geno. Based on everything that has been said though, I am led to believe he's less likely than even LEO where Caldwell sees options there later on.

Going QB at #2 just isn't likely to me. Pick up competition for Gabbert, but do it elsewhere. At #2, we have an opportunity to fix other big holes. Specifically, our pass rush which has been horrid for years. Even with Babin and Branch, we have room to add another future piece there.

I'm a big Geno fan. I don't think it's likely we select him and ultimately due to circumstances I don't want him. If we get him, I'll be happy. If not, I'll be happy.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tugboat


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 3304
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Quote:
Give us a little insight into the Julio Jones trade

We had a very good franchise quarterback in Matt Ryan, our young quarterback. We had a good receiver in Roddy White and we were really looking for a compliment to him or someone to come in after Roddy is on the tail end of his career in two to three years and take over that number one role. Where our team was at the time, I think we were number one in draft retention, so we had about 27 of our 30 players we drafted on our roster and we just felt like a lot of those picks we were trading we were going to have to draft them to cut them or cut some players on our roster that we liked. It was just a point where we were at with our team. Also, which we'll do here, we'll start scouting not only this year's draft but future drafts. So we kind of looked at the receiver class and some of the other value positions we'd be drafting in the first round last year, whether it be offensive tackle, defensive end and felt like if we were picking in that 20 to 32 range, that it wasn't that big of a gamble to give up that future one for a dynamic player like Julio.


http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2013/3/9/4078784/david-caldwell-1010xl-interview-transcript


I love the bolded point there. I know people often tote out the idea that 'you have to focus on what's in this draft', and 'you can't compare between draft years'. But i'm really happy to hear Caldwell is looking at the bigger picture with this stuff. For a rebuilding team like the Jaguars, i really do think you have to look at where each draft is strong and weak, and allow that to factor in at least to some extent in what you ultimately decide to do in a draft.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iPwn


Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 45492
Location: Warbortles Nation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
- Repeatedly talking about giving Gabbert another year and his age
To be fair, the comments were more about why you shouldn't write him off more so than why we'll give him another year as the starter.

Quote:
- Frank Scelfo's comment
If you're going to bring in someone to compete with "the best QB in the class," ideally, you'd like the second best QB in the class, right?

Quote:
- Saying we'll "upgrade when we can"
That was when Geno was a given at #1 though. If the #1 QB drops to us, that's certainly a point where it's possibly a "when we can" moment, right? I mean you can really look at the situation with that 2008 Falcons draft he was a part of. It was pretty obvious through the process that Flacco was the Tyler Wilson/Matt Barkley/Mike Glennon of that class, so they weren't going to reach for him at three, but when Matt Ryan was there, they "upgraded when they could," right?

Quote:
I'm a big Geno fan. I don't think it's likely we select him and ultimately due to circumstances I don't want him. If we get him, I'll be happy. If not, I'll be happy.
Ultimately this is where I am though, so really the discussion about whether he's one of the five most likely picks or one of the 10 most likely picks really isn't one I think that's necessary to have.
_________________

- Best since day one -
The road to success is always under construction - Gus Bradley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you may feel differently, but a QB at #2 isn't "competition" he's THE guy.

If they view Gabbert as the #1 QB, why take the #2 QB at #2 when you already have the #1? Take another position and get the #3, #4, or #5. If Flacco is on that level then one of them could be a possibility later on.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iPwn


Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 45492
Location: Warbortles Nation
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
I know you may feel differently, but a QB at #2 isn't "competition" he's THE guy.
Typically, yeah. That doesn't mean you can't make him earn the job. Carson Palmer and Phillip Rivers, for example.

Quote:
If they view Gabbert as the #1 QB, why take the #2 QB at #2 when you already have the #1? Take another position and get the #3, #4, or #5. If Flacco is on that level then one of them could be a possibility later on.
Well, again, it comes down to the question of how they view the others. Like I said, you don't take RGIII over Blackmon/Kalil/T-Rich if you can get Russel Wilson later. If they feel one of those guys later has potential to be Wilson, then they aren't drafting Geno, but I don't think they'll pass on Matt Ryan to draft Chad Henne later either.
_________________

- Best since day one -
The road to success is always under construction - Gus Bradley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrenaline_Flux


Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 20646
Location: The Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Gabbert is in a similar situation as Jon Kitna or Drew Brees.

The comments thus far sounds like we think we can get a Russell Wilson or wait and get an Aaron Rodgers down the line if we have to though.

I can understand not wanting to eliminate QB completely from the list of options, but I haven't heard anything that has pointed to the position and have only heard things pointing away from it. To me, it makes sense to drop that position down the ladder as far as realistic selections go.
_________________


Winner of Football's Future Big Brother II
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Jacksonville Jaguars All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group