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bill21792


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 454
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
bill21792 wrote:
Am I the only one that's okay with Breno? Not saying he's great or anything, but he's worlds better than what we used to deal with in Sean Locklear. I thought he was pretty decent last year minus the penalties, which simmered down a lot after his benching in the Panthers game.

We need depth overall at tackle though. We're screwed if Okung or Breno go down.
Sean Locklear in his prime was better than Breno. He was just really bad for a two year stretch here.

Why settle for fine? That's the point of all this. Breno is a good run blocker and a solid pass blocker. Winston is a great (borderline dominant) run blocker and a good pass blocker. It's an all around improvement and creates stronger backup depth with Breno.


I really don't think that the Hawks should be big players in free agency in general. It's not that I don't think that we could use upgrades, it's just that we're going to have a lot of guys needing contract extensions in a year or 2. Sherman can re negotiate next year, Chancellor will need a new deal soon. Don't forget about Wilson in a few years. If I remember correctly, Earl Thomas will only have 1 year left on his contract after this season. KJ Wright down the road too.

There's just too many players that we got as late round steals, that are going to command large pay checks when their rookie contracts are expiring. I think it's more important to keep those players from leaving, and add cheap talent via draft (although it's a crap-shoot)
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bill21792 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
bill21792 wrote:
Am I the only one that's okay with Breno? Not saying he's great or anything, but he's worlds better than what we used to deal with in Sean Locklear. I thought he was pretty decent last year minus the penalties, which simmered down a lot after his benching in the Panthers game.

We need depth overall at tackle though. We're screwed if Okung or Breno go down.
Sean Locklear in his prime was better than Breno. He was just really bad for a two year stretch here.

Why settle for fine? That's the point of all this. Breno is a good run blocker and a solid pass blocker. Winston is a great (borderline dominant) run blocker and a good pass blocker. It's an all around improvement and creates stronger backup depth with Breno.


I really don't think that the Hawks should be big players in free agency in general. It's not that I don't think that we could use upgrades, it's just that we're going to have a lot of guys needing contract extensions in a year or 2. Sherman can re negotiate next year, Chancellor will need a new deal soon. Don't forget about Wilson in a few years. If I remember correctly, Earl Thomas will only have 1 year left on his contract after this season. KJ Wright down the road too.

There's just too many players that we got as late round steals, that are going to command large pay checks when their rookie contracts are expiring. I think it's more important to keep those players from leaving, and add cheap talent via draft (although it's a crap-shoot)
Now this is a fair argument.
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

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LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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SaveourSonics


Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are among the top teams in the league as far as available cap space is concerned. Making one splash move in FA to get either Levitre, Cook, or Winston will not set us back any in our attempts to retain our own players.
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bill21792


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
We are among the top teams in the league as far as available cap space is concerned. Making one splash move in FA to get either Levitre, Cook, or Winston will not set us back any in our attempts to retain our own players.


I'm not so sure.

Thomas: Will see a decent increase, although those old rookie contracts are ridiculous. But he's one of the best, if not the best saftey in the game

Chancellor: May or may not get a huge contract, depending on whether 2011 or 2012 Chancellor shows up. But either way, he's going to turn his cap hit from a few hundred thousand into a few million.

KJ Wright: Pretty much same scenario with Kam.

Wilson: Salary will jump from a few hundred thousand to potentially over 10 million a season. Potential HUGE cap hit, although losing Flynn will help.

Sherman will go from virtually making no dent in the cap to over 10 million per season as a top-tier corner. Or we could let him go...

I'm predicting after this year, Golden Tate's play will make him command a larger contract than his rookie one.

Just way to many core guys to retain
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bill21792 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
We are among the top teams in the league as far as available cap space is concerned. Making one splash move in FA to get either Levitre, Cook, or Winston will not set us back any in our attempts to retain our own players.


I'm not so sure.

Thomas: Will see a decent increase, although those old rookie contracts are ridiculous. But he's one of the best, if not the best saftey in the game

Chancellor: May or may not get a huge contract, depending on whether 2011 or 2012 Chancellor shows up. But either way, he's going to turn his cap hit from a few hundred thousand into a few million.

KJ Wright: Pretty much same scenario with Kam.

Wilson: Salary will jump from a few hundred thousand to potentially over 10 million a season. Potential HUGE cap hit, although losing Flynn will help.

Sherman will go from virtually making no dent in the cap to over 10 million per season as a top-tier corner. Or we could let him go...

I'm predicting after this year, Golden Tate's play will make him command a larger contract than his rookie one.

Just way to many core guys to retain
We can't resign Wilson until after his 3rd year. I also expect restructures to Zach and Sidney's contracts at some point. I wouldn't be shocked if Red Bryant ended up cut after this season.
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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bill21792


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
bill21792 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
We are among the top teams in the league as far as available cap space is concerned. Making one splash move in FA to get either Levitre, Cook, or Winston will not set us back any in our attempts to retain our own players.


I'm not so sure.

Thomas: Will see a decent increase, although those old rookie contracts are ridiculous. But he's one of the best, if not the best saftey in the game

Chancellor: May or may not get a huge contract, depending on whether 2011 or 2012 Chancellor shows up. But either way, he's going to turn his cap hit from a few hundred thousand into a few million.

KJ Wright: Pretty much same scenario with Kam.

Wilson: Salary will jump from a few hundred thousand to potentially over 10 million a season. Potential HUGE cap hit, although losing Flynn will help.

Sherman will go from virtually making no dent in the cap to over 10 million per season as a top-tier corner. Or we could let him go...

I'm predicting after this year, Golden Tate's play will make him command a larger contract than his rookie one.

Just way to many core guys to retain
We can't resign Wilson until after his 3rd year. I also expect restructures to Zach and Sidney's contracts at some point. I wouldn't be shocked if Red Bryant ended up cut after this season.


Yea, I just brought up Wilson, because I'm talking about cap space in general, not just this and next year.

I hope given their production that Rice and Miller restructure. On the other hand, I'm thinking if Wilson plays most of next season like he did at the end of 2012, it'll inflate their numbers. So it may be crazy for them to restructure after this next season.

Agree about Red unless he can get back to 2011 form.
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SwiftTexan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not going to be a ton of money. If you take what Winston will get paid and subtract the amount Breno is getting paid - that's how much Winston total salary is for the Sehawks essentially. This year has a couple of big name guys like Mike Wallace that will probably get the biggest chunk of money but guys like Winston, Levitre, Jenkins won't be as highly paid.

My point about Winston is that if you look at A) How many OTs (especially RTs) are going to be available in free agency, it decreases Winston's market value because he loses his leverage. B) You look at the position as a whole and the value placed on the position and it decreases Winston's value. C) And finally, teams see how deep the draft is at this position and they know they can address it at in April - they don't have to pay the big dollars to guys who are just trying to hold out for the biggest payday.

If Winston is willing to dance and take a reasonable salary relative to his skillset that I think we'd be fools not to try and sign him. He's not some washed up veteran looking for one last paycheque. I think we can all agree he was released because the Chiefs know who they will draft and they don't need three tackles on their team earning starters paycheques. He's a talented player who can help this team and is a great run blocker which is perfect for us.
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union hawk fan


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to get Winston but I'm not sure how much he helps this team. Breno isn't that bad of a right tackle, yes he had a lot of flags early in the year but after the panther game he played pretty good. If we can sign Winston for a decent deal great, if not no big deal. I'd rather upgrade at guard than right tackle if we could.
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KayJayz


Joined: 31 May 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like Breno, his flags iritated me but they did start to trail off at the end of the season. With that said, we would be fools not to make a legit run at Winston. He is a top RT and that would make Breno one of the best backup tackles that we could ever hope for. We end up with a dynamic OL with some quality depth. Christmas comes early, thank you KC.

I agree that we have many young core players coming up soon that need to be retained but that does not prevent us from spending money now. We have 3 more years of having a cheap top 10 QB, let's take advantage of that by signing Winston, Levitre, Cook, Jennings/Wallace, Abraham, and/or Jenkins. Any or all of them would make our team elite. Even if we have to cut them in a couple years, we get a of couple legit chances at the superbowl all while retaining all of the young core players that we all know and love.

Hell, I even want to turn our 10 draft picks into 3 or 4 early round picks because we all know that 10 rookies will not make the team. The rebuild project is complete. We have already built for the future, it is time to tweak what we already have to win it all now.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
It's not going to be a ton of money. If you take what Winston will get paid and subtract the amount Breno is getting paid - that's how much Winston total salary is for the Sehawks essentially. This year has a couple of big name guys like Mike Wallace that will probably get the biggest chunk of money but guys like Winston, Levitre, Jenkins won't be as highly paid.

My point about Winston is that if you look at A) How many OTs (especially RTs) are going to be available in free agency, it decreases Winston's market value because he loses his leverage. B) You look at the position as a whole and the value placed on the position and it decreases Winston's value. C) And finally, teams see how deep the draft is at this position and they know they can address it at in April - they don't have to pay the big dollars to guys who are just trying to hold out for the biggest payday.

If Winston is willing to dance and take a reasonable salary relative to his skillset that I think we'd be fools not to try and sign him. He's not some washed up veteran looking for one last paycheque. I think we can all agree he was released because the Chiefs know who they will draft and they don't need three tackles on their team earning starters paycheques. He's a talented player who can help this team and is a great run blocker which is perfect for us.
Levitre will get paid very well this offseason. Upwards of $8M I'd think. I agree with your premise though, Winston should come fairly cheaply.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
I didn't think that was obvious. In fact, I bet a handful of people here would rather have the upgrade at RT than the upgrade at #2 TE.


And they would be right given one player(Winston) is an upgrade in the running game while the Tight End people want is a downgrade in that area to go along with being an all-round inconsistant player.
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SaveourSonics


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I didn't think that was obvious. In fact, I bet a handful of people here would rather have the upgrade at RT than the upgrade at #2 TE.


And they would be right given one player(Winston) is an upgrade in the running game while the Tight End people want is a downgrade in that area to go along with being an all-round inconsistant player.


Breno is already quite good in run blocking and is probably slightly worse than Winston in pass pro. The difference we'd see with the product of football on the field would change slightly in relation IMO. But if you add a mismatch nightmare at the #2 TE spot where we really don't have a receiving threat currently on the team, you open this offense up to do things it can't currently do. Cook would essentially erase our need for a WR.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I didn't think that was obvious. In fact, I bet a handful of people here would rather have the upgrade at RT than the upgrade at #2 TE.


And they would be right given one player(Winston) is an upgrade in the running game while the Tight End people want is a downgrade in that area to go along with being an all-round inconsistant player.


Breno is already quite good in run blocking and is probably slightly worse than Winston in pass pro. The difference we'd see with the product of football on the field would change slightly in relation IMO. But if you add a mismatch nightmare at the #2 TE spot where we really don't have a receiving threat currently on the team, you open this offense up to do things it can't currently do. Cook would essentially erase our need for a WR.
Breno is more than slightly worse in pass pro. Winston is far from amazing but only gave up 3 sacks. Breno is average at best in pass pro.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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SaveourSonics


Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I didn't think that was obvious. In fact, I bet a handful of people here would rather have the upgrade at RT than the upgrade at #2 TE.


And they would be right given one player(Winston) is an upgrade in the running game while the Tight End people want is a downgrade in that area to go along with being an all-round inconsistant player.


Breno is already quite good in run blocking and is probably slightly worse than Winston in pass pro. The difference we'd see with the product of football on the field would change slightly in relation IMO. But if you add a mismatch nightmare at the #2 TE spot where we really don't have a receiving threat currently on the team, you open this offense up to do things it can't currently do. Cook would essentially erase our need for a WR.
Breno is more than slightly worse in pass pro. Winston is far from amazing but only gave up 3 sacks. Breno is average at best in pass pro.


...Winston is not known for his pass pro. Mediocre at best there as well.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaveourSonics wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
SaveourSonics wrote:
I didn't think that was obvious. In fact, I bet a handful of people here would rather have the upgrade at RT than the upgrade at #2 TE.


And they would be right given one player(Winston) is an upgrade in the running game while the Tight End people want is a downgrade in that area to go along with being an all-round inconsistant player.


Breno is already quite good in run blocking and is probably slightly worse than Winston in pass pro. The difference we'd see with the product of football on the field would change slightly in relation IMO. But if you add a mismatch nightmare at the #2 TE spot where we really don't have a receiving threat currently on the team, you open this offense up to do things it can't currently do. Cook would essentially erase our need for a WR.
Breno is more than slightly worse in pass pro. Winston is far from amazing but only gave up 3 sacks. Breno is average at best in pass pro.


...Winston is not known for his pass pro. Mediocre at best there as well.
I fully realize he's not know for his pass pro. But he's still noticeably better than Breno
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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