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Broncos will ask Dumerville to restructure.
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whenmidgetsatak


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 7018
Location: University of Kansas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Cutler06 wrote:
Anybody interested to see what Jeremy Beal is gonna look like this year ?

Not really no. If Beal was going to do anything of consequence in the NFL he would have shown it already. He's buried on the PS for a reason. He can be, at best, a below-average rotational player in the NFL.

The Broncos now have no choice but to overpay for a veteran DE who's well on the downside of his career (Freeney, Abraham, et. al.) and spend their first round draft pick on a DE. We're now pigeonholed into now having to draft based on need and not on BPA.

.


AAA, I'm really not trying to pick on you man, but posts like this and your previous drive me nuts.

How bout this quote:
Quote:
All of those who we will hear in the days and weeks ahead apologizing for and/or applauding this move have one thing in common, they are wrong.


Can't you at least occasionally say IMO?

You post your opinion as indisputable fact. I don't get it.

Beal was a great DE at oklahoma and was placed on IR last August.

What do you mean they have no choice? Of course they do. Ayers, jackson, Beal as a darkhorse, yet you say we have no choice but to draft a DE in the 1st.

Listen, we all respect your opinion, but when it's posted as fact it gets old in a hurry. We've got great, knowledgeable posters here that disagree with both of us a lot. I respect that and honor those opinions.



Also appreciate the shot at the Broncos fanbase earlier in the thread. Keept it classy, AAA.

Remember AAA said the Packers made the worst decision in franchise history to let Favre go in lieu of Aaron Rodgers, and also coined the beautiful quote in my sig Wink . Take his posts with a very large grain of salt. Being a mod doesnt make his opinions any more right or noteworthy than a poster with 1 post.


All that said, I am sad to see Doom go. A pass rush is vital to a high scoring team. I dont know much about Freeney and Abraham's current abilities, but have heard many places that Abraham is still okay, while Freeney isnt. Dont get Peytons desire to play with a guy thats never on the field at the same time as him, seems a little bit selfish imo. Like he only wants him here because hes a friend, not because hes best for the team.

I hope we draft another undersized, unathletic pass rusher that got huge sack numbers in college, just like Doom, to replace him.

RIP VonDoom
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champ+jay+al=SB


Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 15459
Location: Boulder
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Further, another part of me wonders if Elvis weren't drafted by Mike Shanahan how people would feel about him.


Drafting Dumervil where we did was a steal. Anyone who defends Dumervil because of Shanahan should bear in mind that Mike Shanahan isn't the one responsible for giving Dumervil a gigantic contract, that blame lies with Josh McDaniels.


Best round we have ever had since I've been a fan. Epic.

I'm sad to see Elvis go, I've always been a fan. He was awesome for a couple years. But I don't see him as an impact player anymore and don't see this as a bad loss. He definitely isn't as bad as some people make him out to be, but he is very average. I don't know what you are thinking if you don't think we can replace an average player.

But yeah as far as Freeney goes, I'm not really interested. But I'm sure that's happening
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1769
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Cutler06 wrote:
Anybody interested to see what Jeremy Beal is gonna look like this year ?

Not really no. If Beal was going to do anything of consequence in the NFL he would have shown it already. He's buried on the PS for a reason. He can be, at best, a below-average rotational player in the NFL.

The Broncos now have no choice but to overpay for a veteran DE who's well on the downside of his career (Freeney, Abraham, et. al.) and spend their first round draft pick on a DE. We're now pigeonholed into now having to draft based on need and not on BPA.

And the worst thing about all of this is that none of it is really the Broncos' fault. They, wisely, weren't going to pay Doom $12m. They offered him a fair contract and his agent screwed up the fax. They then offered him another fair contract and, after weighing the options, he decided sign with another team. This is really just an awful turn of events for the Broncos.


As is becoming the norm with your analysis, you will be proven wrong. There was a time Rod Smith was "buried" on the practice squad. Not saying Beal is Smith but Jeremy is a pretty good player who has made progress. I predict at the very least he will be a capable back up. When I bump this thread again in the fall, feel free to give me an official warning.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 18537
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll ignore the personal attacks and respond to the posts on their merit.

AKRNA wrote:
Beal was a great DE at oklahoma and was placed on IR last August.

Who cares what he did in college. He's done nothing in the NFL. Not next to nothing, nothing. He's been on the PS and he's been on IR. I think it's far more likely that he continues to do nothing in the NFL than he bursts onto the scene, gets 13 sacks and is chosen for the All Pro team.

AKRNA wrote:
What do you mean they have no choice? Of course they do. Ayers, jackson, Beal as a darkhorse, yet you say we have no choice but to draft a DE in the 1st.

Perhaps I was unclear. They have no choice for a pass rusher other than to sign a veteran DE with pass rush ability and draft another one highly.

Beal, as I said above, is roster fluff. Jackson was drafted to be a rotational/depth player who can play LDE and UT, not to get double-digit sacks from the RDE spot. Why people continue to have faith in Robert Ayers as a pass rusher is beyond me. Ayers has never done anything as a pass rusher and wouldn't even have a job here had Jason Hunter stayed healthy. He's an average LDE who can play situationally. That's it. He will be Derek Wolfe's backup just as he was last year.

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
All that said, I am sad to see Doom go. A pass rush is vital to a high scoring team. I dont know much about Freeney and Abraham's current abilities, but have heard many places that Abraham is still okay, while Freeney isnt. Dont get Peytons desire to play with a guy thats never on the field at the same time as him, seems a little bit selfish imo. Like he only wants him here because hes a friend, not because hes best for the team.

I agree. Abraham had some production last year. Taking a quick look at his stat splits, 7 of his 10 sacks last year came at home, on the fast, dry, artificial surface in the Georgia Dome. 6 of the 10 sacks came when Atlanta was ahead, which could mean that he gets a lot of "garbage time" sacks, which was a justification from some around here for getting rid of Dumervil.

I did see Freeney play a lot this year, I watched a lot of Indy games because I liked studying Andrew Luck. What I saw in Freeney was a player who should retire because he can't play anymore. He looked, slow, uninterested, he took plays off, lacked bust and explosion. His famous spin move is a thing of the past and he lacks the size and strength to hold up against the run.

Sadly, it appears Freeney is the odds on favorite to land here. What, if anything, that has to do with Peyton I do not know. I would hope that John Elway, Matt Russell and the others at Dove Valley will sign the best football player for the Denver Broncos based only on what he can do on the field and not because he has a buddy on the team.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5132
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I'll ignore the personal attacks and respond to the posts on their merit.

AKRNA wrote:
Beal was a great DE at oklahoma and was placed on IR last August.

Who cares what he did in college. He's done nothing in the NFL. Not next to nothing, nothing. He's been on the PS and he's been on IR. I think it's far more likely that he continues to do nothing in the NFL than he bursts onto the scene, gets 13 sacks and is chosen for the All Pro team.

AKRNA wrote:
What do you mean they have no choice? Of course they do. Ayers, jackson, Beal as a darkhorse, yet you say we have no choice but to draft a DE in the 1st.

Perhaps I was unclear. They have no choice for a pass rusher other than to sign a veteran DE with pass rush ability and draft another one highly.

Beal, as I said above, is roster fluff. Jackson was drafted to be a rotational/depth player who can play LDE and UT, not to get double-digit sacks from the RDE spot. Why people continue to have faith in Robert Ayers as a pass rusher is beyond me. Ayers has never done anything as a pass rusher and wouldn't even have a job here had Jason Hunter stayed healthy. He's an average LDE who can play situationally. That's it. He will be Derek Wolfe's backup just as he was last year.

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
All that said, I am sad to see Doom go. A pass rush is vital to a high scoring team. I dont know much about Freeney and Abraham's current abilities, but have heard many places that Abraham is still okay, while Freeney isnt. Dont get Peytons desire to play with a guy thats never on the field at the same time as him, seems a little bit selfish imo. Like he only wants him here because hes a friend, not because hes best for the team.

I agree. Abraham had some production last year. Taking a quick look at his stat splits, 7 of his 10 sacks last year came at home, on the fast, dry, artificial surface in the Georgia Dome. 6 of the 10 sacks came when Atlanta was ahead, which could mean that he gets a lot of "garbage time" sacks, which was a justification from some around here for getting rid of Dumervil.

I did see Freeney play a lot this year, I watched a lot of Indy games because I liked studying Andrew Luck. What I saw in Freeney was a player who should retire because he can't play anymore. He looked, slow, uninterested, he took plays off, lacked bust and explosion. His famous spin move is a thing of the past and he lacks the size and strength to hold up against the run.

Sadly, it appears Freeney is the odds on favorite to land here. What, if anything, that has to do with Peyton I do not know. I would hope that John Elway, Matt Russell and the others at Dove Valley will sign the best football player for the Denver Broncos based only on what he can do on the field and not because he has a buddy on the team.


Of course you're right.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
Posts: 21192
Location: Manchester, England
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I wouldn't get too riled up about all of this. The Broncos fanbase is littered with Dumervil haters. It was also littered with Tebow fanboys


"Tebow!"

Sad to see Elvis go because he was popular in the dressing room and a good pass rusher. That said, he was inconsistent and I wouldn't have wanted anything other than a deal we could get out of in two years.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Further, another part of me wonders if Elvis weren't drafted by Mike Shanahan how people would feel about him.


Drafting Dumervil where we did was a steal. Anyone who defends Dumervil because of Shanahan should bear in mind that Mike Shanahan isn't the one responsible for giving Dumervil a gigantic contract, that blame lies with Josh McDaniels.


Well, I certainly agree on both points, just pointing out the "nostalgia" that can be associated with Shanny era players.
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Winder23


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I wouldn't get too riled up about all of this. The Broncos fanbase is littered with Dumervil haters. It was also littered with Tebow fanboys


"Tebow!"

Sad to see Elvis go because he was popular in the dressing room and a good pass rusher. That said, he was inconsistent and I wouldn't have wanted anything other than a deal we could get out of in two years.
He was popular in the dressing room? What are they trying on dresses??? Laughing

AAA the quote above is a personal attack as well. Way to be consistent. Wink Rolling Eyes

As for Doom. I am not surprised. An athlete that gets paid millions of dollars acts like a child when they are asked to take a paycut and goes to another team. Oh well, it is the same way we got Welker and seems to bethe norm in the NFL now.
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The Helicopter


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be interesting to see how well Dumbervil flourishes with the Ravens. He's had more experience, coaching, and probably goes to a team with a better line. Could depend on how 'hungry' the Ravens are next year with the loses of their defensive leaders. He could be very successful and make Baltimore happy for having him (back in a 3-4).

What irks me is how HE treated the Broncos. IMO, the organization has paid him highly for his past services including a year with injury, they gave him ample time to think about a new contract and his future and offered him more money than what the market would bear. Ultimately, his final decision cost the Broncos cap space, maybe a draft pick (via trade or compensatory), other players that were available before signing with other teams, and just left an F U donkeys mark. Was the front office niave? Is this a fooled me once, but not twice learning experience or will the brass always treat their players with this kind of respect even if it means a potential lose-lose situation in the end?

IMO he didn't really want to be back with the Broncos next year anyway or he would have signed something way before the deadline. I wonder why...it's not like we got outbid or have a bad franchise.
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lomaxgr


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winder23 wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I wouldn't get too riled up about all of this. The Broncos fanbase is littered with Dumervil haters. It was also littered with Tebow fanboys


"Tebow!"

Sad to see Elvis go because he was popular in the dressing room and a good pass rusher. That said, he was inconsistent and I wouldn't have wanted anything other than a deal we could get out of in two years.
He was popular in the dressing room? What are they trying on dresses??? Laughing


Haha Embarassed

I put an interesting stat in the NFL News forum for those who use Elvis' sack numbers to big him up.

In his last 32 regular season starts, Elvis has had at least 1.0 sack in only 15 of those games. Von Miller has had 21 in his 31 regular season games and that includes the 3 games at the end of 2011/12 where he played with a broken hand (no sacks in any of these games).

He is a player that relies on leverage at the POA because he is limited as an athlete. When he comes up against an OT he can better from a leverage standpoint on a consistent basis, he has success. But when he comes up against an OT that can sink their hips and get underneath Elvis, he isn't anywhere near as effective.

Good player, not worth $$$ we had him under contract at. If the Ravens can cut him loose after paying him $8.5 million for 1 year, then I don't see the issue (assuming the move doesn't limit them signing other players).
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helicopter wrote:
IMO he didn't really want to be back with the Broncos next year anyway or he would have signed something way before the deadline. I wonder why...it's not like we got outbid or have a bad franchise.


Peter King reported in his MMQB that he would have left for anywhere that offered $1 more than the Broncos, so this is a very good point.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Helicopter wrote:
What irks me is how HE treated the Broncos. IMO, the organization has paid him highly for his past services including a year with injury, they gave him ample time to think about a new contract and his future and offered him more money than what the market would bear. Ultimately, his final decision cost the Broncos cap space, maybe a draft pick (via trade or compensatory), other players that were available before signing with other teams, and just left an F U donkeys mark. Was the front office niave? Is this a fooled me once, but not twice learning experience or will the brass always treat their players with this kind of respect even if it means a potential lose-lose situation in the end?

It didnt cost the Broncos really anything. No one was going to trade for that contract. It was really bad and even in restructuring he would be overpaid, imo. Comp pick wasn't coming they released him and his deal has to expire for comp picks to even come into play. Only possible replacements like Kruger would've been out of price range. I dont think Elway would've done much w/ the money either way. It was really restructure or release and take the cap and look for a replacement. He's going to get Freeney/Abraham and use them in subpackages and have a stouter DE and hopefully have extensions for Decker and other key guys. Dumervil owed Denver nothing and Denver owed him nothing. He left for the money.

The Helicopter wrote:
It'll be interesting to see how well Dumbervil flourishes with the Ravens. He's had more experience, coaching, and probably goes to a team with a better line. Could depend on how 'hungry' the Ravens are next year with the loses of their defensive leaders. He could be very successful and make Baltimore happy for having him (back in a 3-4).

He'll probably do well as a pass rusher and be used in passing down only role and just ask him to rush. He's going to be 2nd best pass rusher on that defense. He's a good 1 trick pony but I dont think he's worth 7 mill.
lomaxgr wrote:

Good player, not worth $$$ we had him under contract at. If the Ravens can cut him loose after paying him $8.5 million for 1 year, then I don't see the issue (assuming the move doesn't limit them signing other players).

I thought it was 12.5 mill guaranteed and basically a 2 yr deal and that'd be a a decent cap charge in the 2nd yr?
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bobdevine


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter King's report on the signing:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130325/elvis-dumervil-baltimore-ravens-peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback/?sct=hp_wr_a2&eref=sihp
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Denver goes with Freeney or Abraham it will basically be a neutral move for the Broncos if either of these players play the same amount of snaps as Elvis Dumervil did last year in Denver.

Hopefully either of this players would come on short deals which would help force Denver into getting a legitimate young player to play opposite of Von Miller.

Also, no, Denver doesn't "need" to draft a defensive end. I would love to see it, same as i would if Elvis Dumervil were to stay because Denver only has one consistent edge player and that is Von Miller and they also lack depth. I would hate to see what would happen to this defense if Von Miller were to miss action because of an injury. I know most fully understand he is a great player, but i also think most fail to realize just how big of an impact he has on the defense as a whole.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
I'll ignore the personal attacks and respond to the posts on their merit.



Not sure what you consider a "personal attack". My response to you certainly wasn't. It was a very polite commentary on your posting style which has changed greatly in the last several months.

For the worse IMO. You're recently exaggerted style basically attacks any opposing opinions. Probably a bad idea in a forum with so many diverse yet very informed opinions.

I could make a list of posters whose opinions I respect, but a much much much shorter list would be posters whose opinions I don't.

just a thought, but how 'bout we get the AAA from a year or two ago back. Just a thought. Wink
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