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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
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Location: SC
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| DT58_lives_on wrote: | | I think what Nic is saying, and I obviously could be wrong is. His understanding is that we'd be charged the 6.3 million for his signing bonuses as well. |
Exactly, so I minus the escalated (total) signing bonus that remains ($6,300,000) from the 2013 base salary ($4,900,000) and that comes out to a negative or "hit" of $1,400,000. So basically we would lose salary cap space in 2013 and 2014 by cutting Winston...obviously the cap space lost in 2014 is not overwhelming ($300,000).
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Rumless
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 1011
Location: Chiefs Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I mentioned in another thread, but I'm curious how Jeff Allen would perform at RT. Perhaps I'm in a hivemind with the front office?
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ryknowssd
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 22043
Location: Awesomeville
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Rumless wrote: | I mentioned in another thread, but I'm curious how Jeff Allen would perform at RT. Perhaps I'm in a hivemind with the front office?
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Remember Jordan Black, the turnstile? Yeah, that.
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3491
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.
Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.
Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.
How would you feel if we cut Winston?
And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat? |
That guys reasoning is flawed...even if we were cutting Winston that doesn't point to Joeckel, that points to them liking Stephenson at RT. Cuz drafting Joeckel would basically be like taking a RT #1 overall.
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| fortdetroit wrote: | | I wonder if people realize that Matt Cassel's 2 best seasons of his career are probably better than anything Alex Smith has ever done. |
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
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Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT.
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3491
Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Rearviewmirror wrote: | | This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT. |
Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1.
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| fortdetroit wrote: | | I wonder if people realize that Matt Cassel's 2 best seasons of his career are probably better than anything Alex Smith has ever done. |
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Rearviewmirror
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 17470
Location: Koch Arena. Ryknowssd makes BAD sigs
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | Rearviewmirror wrote: | | This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT. |
Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1. |
Why wouldn't you want 2 Derrick Johnsons in the middle. They never have to come off the field, and when DJ's play starts to decline AB will be taking over as top dog
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Mikek163
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Winston being cut -
Not sure if srs.
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ArrowheadRage58
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: Hate for the Donkeys is at a mile high
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Rearviewmirror wrote: | | ArrowheadRage58 wrote: | | Rearviewmirror wrote: | | This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT. |
Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1. |
Why wouldn't you want 2 Derrick Johnsons in the middle. They never have to come off the field, and when DJ's play starts to decline AB will be taking over as top dog |
Well there is that... 
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| fortdetroit wrote: | | I wonder if people realize that Matt Cassel's 2 best seasons of his career are probably better than anything Alex Smith has ever done. |
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wishbone20
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Springfield, Mo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I alsmost started a thread questioning Winston's roster spot. Guy makes a bunch of money for how much of a liability he was in pass pro, but it looks like he is savy enough and put together an advantagious contract.
I personally wouldn't have any problem with Luke and Brandon being tackles. We've seen players plugged in at different positions on the line usually with interior guys staying inside and tackles having the ability to change sides. I doubt it happens but I disagree with the idea that we couldn't have BA and Joeckel anchoring the flanks.
With Albert tagged the Joeckel Winston combo seems more likely and more hazardous.
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KC_Guy
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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Location: Brussels, Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? |
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| bigschmadt00 wrote: | He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.
Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.
Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.
How would you feel if we cut Winston?
And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat? |
Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)
Bad move.
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DT58_lives_on
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)
Bad move. |
Ok, so as I read this we'd need our starting right tackle to cost us under .7 million or be someone on the roster to even break even? Couldn't agree more with you on this, absolutely doesn't give enough roster relief this year to make it worth while.
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Eric Berry
Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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Location: Lexington, KY
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure he was the 26th overall tackle last year according to PFF. Not sure why we would release him. He had a great year last year. Remember how lopsided our run averages were from the left side to the right side 2 years ago? Running to the right side was actually a strong point of our offense for the first time in a long time. We can't afford to lose him.
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nicfre2011
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 5303
Location: SC
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? |
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| KC_Guy wrote: | | bigschmadt00 wrote: | He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.
Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.
Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.
How would you feel if we cut Winston?
And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat? |
Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)
Bad move. |
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but doesn't the base salary (unless specifically guaranteed in the contract) comes off of the salary cap, so any prorated signing bonus amount that adds up as less than the base salary and any roster bonus that is not guaranteed and any workout bonuses. I believe the key is cutting the player before those yearly bonuses are due, then they come off of the cap as well (IIRC, any yearly bonuses like roster bonuses and workout bonuses are automatically counted against the cap of the year they are included in, then if they are not reached they are credited to the cap amount of that year).
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KC_Guy
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 5903
Location: Brussels, Belgium
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? |
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| nicfre2011 wrote: | | KC_Guy wrote: | | bigschmadt00 wrote: | He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.
Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.
Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.
How would you feel if we cut Winston?
And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat? |
Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)
Bad move. |
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but doesn't the base salary (unless specifically guaranteed in the contract) comes off of the salary cap, so any prorated signing bonus amount that adds up as less than the base salary and any roster bonus that is not guaranteed and any workout bonuses. I believe the key is cutting the player before those yearly bonuses are due, then they come off of the cap as well (IIRC, any yearly bonuses like roster bonuses and workout bonuses are automatically counted against the cap of the year they are included in, then if they are not reached they are credited to the cap amount of that year). |
Winston's going to make 4.9 M$ base this year.
He had a 8.4 M$ signing bonus for 4 years - thus prorated signing bonus 2.1 M$/year.
His base salary goes away if cut - but the three remaining portions of signing bonus accelerate into 2013: 6.3 M$. Unless he's designated a June 2 release - which is a different story again.
Any amortized bonus (e.g. roster bonus) already paid when the player is cut counts against the cap as well. Nothing like that on Winston's contract though.
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