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Could Eric Winston be out?
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DT58_lives_on wrote:
I think what Nic is saying, and I obviously could be wrong is. His understanding is that we'd be charged the 6.3 million for his signing bonuses as well.


Exactly, so I minus the escalated (total) signing bonus that remains ($6,300,000) from the 2013 base salary ($4,900,000) and that comes out to a negative or "hit" of $1,400,000. So basically we would lose salary cap space in 2013 and 2014 by cutting Winston...obviously the cap space lost in 2014 is not overwhelming ($300,000).
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Rumless


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned in another thread, but I'm curious how Jeff Allen would perform at RT. Perhaps I'm in a hivemind with the front office?

Pray
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rumless wrote:
I mentioned in another thread, but I'm curious how Jeff Allen would perform at RT. Perhaps I'm in a hivemind with the front office?

Pray


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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.

Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.

Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.

How would you feel if we cut Winston?

And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat?


That guys reasoning is flawed...even if we were cutting Winston that doesn't point to Joeckel, that points to them liking Stephenson at RT. Cuz drafting Joeckel would basically be like taking a RT #1 overall.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT.
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ArrowheadRage58


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT.


Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1.
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT.


Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1.


Why wouldn't you want 2 Derrick Johnsons in the middle. They never have to come off the field, and when DJ's play starts to decline AB will be taking over as top dog
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winston being cut -

Not sure if srs.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
This isn't Madden where guys can just switch positions and their ratings barely change. You can't just move LTs to RT. It's a different position. We can't keep Albert, cut Winston, and take Joeckel #1, because then we have no RT, and we have 2 LT.


Thank you...you're sometimes the only one that sees my logic....and I like AB about as much as you...I just can't see the value of his position at #1.


Why wouldn't you want 2 Derrick Johnsons in the middle. They never have to come off the field, and when DJ's play starts to decline AB will be taking over as top dog


Well there is that... Think
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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wishbone20


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I alsmost started a thread questioning Winston's roster spot. Guy makes a bunch of money for how much of a liability he was in pass pro, but it looks like he is savy enough and put together an advantagious contract.

I personally wouldn't have any problem with Luke and Brandon being tackles. We've seen players plugged in at different positions on the line usually with interior guys staying inside and tackles having the ability to change sides. I doubt it happens but I disagree with the idea that we couldn't have BA and Joeckel anchoring the flanks.

With Albert tagged the Joeckel Winston combo seems more likely and more hazardous.
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KC_Guy


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.

Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.

Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.

How would you feel if we cut Winston?

And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat?


Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)

Bad move.
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DT58_lives_on


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)

Bad move.


Ok, so as I read this we'd need our starting right tackle to cost us under .7 million or be someone on the roster to even break even? Couldn't agree more with you on this, absolutely doesn't give enough roster relief this year to make it worth while.
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Eric Berry


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure he was the 26th overall tackle last year according to PFF. Not sure why we would release him. He had a great year last year. Remember how lopsided our run averages were from the left side to the right side 2 years ago? Running to the right side was actually a strong point of our offense for the first time in a long time. We can't afford to lose him.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? Reply with quote

KC_Guy wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.

Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.

Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.

How would you feel if we cut Winston?

And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat?


Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)

Bad move.


I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but doesn't the base salary (unless specifically guaranteed in the contract) comes off of the salary cap, so any prorated signing bonus amount that adds up as less than the base salary and any roster bonus that is not guaranteed and any workout bonuses. I believe the key is cutting the player before those yearly bonuses are due, then they come off of the cap as well (IIRC, any yearly bonuses like roster bonuses and workout bonuses are automatically counted against the cap of the year they are included in, then if they are not reached they are credited to the cap amount of that year).
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KC_Guy


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Could Eric Winston be out? Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
KC_Guy wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
He counts against the cap $4.9MM this year, was selected by the previous regime, and ultimately was very underwhelming this past year.

Daniel Jeremiah on NFL network keeps saying Joeckel is still the pick at #1 because Winston could be out.

Seeing our cap situation, I could definitely see it as an option.

How would you feel if we cut Winston?

And KC_Guy, how much dead money would we eat?


Winston's cap this year: 7 M$
If released: 6.3 M$ (and no player)

Bad move.


I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but doesn't the base salary (unless specifically guaranteed in the contract) comes off of the salary cap, so any prorated signing bonus amount that adds up as less than the base salary and any roster bonus that is not guaranteed and any workout bonuses. I believe the key is cutting the player before those yearly bonuses are due, then they come off of the cap as well (IIRC, any yearly bonuses like roster bonuses and workout bonuses are automatically counted against the cap of the year they are included in, then if they are not reached they are credited to the cap amount of that year).


Winston's going to make 4.9 M$ base this year.
He had a 8.4 M$ signing bonus for 4 years - thus prorated signing bonus 2.1 M$/year.
His base salary goes away if cut - but the three remaining portions of signing bonus accelerate into 2013: 6.3 M$. Unless he's designated a June 2 release - which is a different story again.
Any amortized bonus (e.g. roster bonus) already paid when the player is cut counts against the cap as well. Nothing like that on Winston's contract though.
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