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Pie Romania


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 1828
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Trade Value? Reply with quote

Ok, let me first state that this isn't something that I want. However, with the emergence of certain players coming up, we aren't going to be able to re-sign all of our young stars. Some may be a product of the system more-so than others and getting value for them in terms of draft picks and/or other players might be better than just letting them walk and hoping for a high compensatory pick. Which players do you think we could afford to trade without taking a drastic hit in performance?

On Offense:
-Anthony McCoy: He probably won't net a lot, and while (at times) he can be very good, I just don't get the feeling that he's completely into football. He has all of the physical skills you look for in a receiving TE, but he makes quite a few bone-headed mistakes and drops. When this happens, I have noticed, he doesn't seem too concerned about it, and late last season, I even saw him smiling/laughing after a few of these types of plays. If we can acquire someone similar to him for a reasonable price whether via draft or free agency, I wouldn't mind getting what we can for him honestly. Not sure on his value, so I won't throw out any guesses.

-Leon Washington: As with McCoy, Washington probably won't net very much given that kick returners don't play as important of a role as they once did. I don't feel like Washington adds much to the offense in terms of 'change of pace'. He is far too easy to tackle, and while his speed can make things happen, he needs space to get things going. His salary is high IMO for what he does, so maybe if he restructures, then he'd be fine on the roster. (5th Round Pick/Maybe 6th)

Defense:
-Kam Chancellor: Arguably one of my favorite players. The guy is an enforcer. The thing is, I believe he is the biggest product of the system on this team (outside of Clemons & Bryant). I believe Kam would be the easiest to replace on this defense in terms of getting solid value for him without much drop off in production. I'd love him to stay on the Seahawks, but I feel Sherman & Thomas are much more vital to the success of our team. (2nd or 3rd Round Pick?)

Brandon Browner: Browner isn't a young buck, but he manhandles opposing WR's and takes their lunch money. He makes plays, and while he gets burnt on occasion, it is happening less frequently as time goes on. He's showing vast improvement, but with the money that will be tied up in retaining Sherman and Thomas, I don't know that I'd want to pay Browner what he deserves. I mean, I hope he gets the money he has earned, but I think it would have to be somewhere else. I would rather draft another tall, physical corner project and see if we can replicate some of the same success. (Early 3rd Round Pick?)

Anyone else I am forgetting? Hope we retain Rice & Miller, but for what production we're getting, I hope they restructure. Not expecting it, but it would be nice. The only other one I can think of is Red Bryant, however, I would wait and see how his injury pans out. When he is healthy, he's vital to our run defense and if we can snag a guy who can spell him and also play inside on passing downs from the draft (maybe Datone Jones?), then I would be all for keeping him, assuming he returns to form.
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sirensong


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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Location: Vancouver BC
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of those guys are being traded...

This thread is kind of coming out of left field in my opinion... I mean talking about trading Kam Chancellor are you kidding me? Hes one of the building blocks of our D and will be here a long time. Leon and McCoy? Not exactly the type of players teams go out and trade for, I mean if Winslow only got a conditional 7th what in the world would any team give up for McCoy?

Browner is the only reasonable name to throw out, but alot of that was coming from him being a package for Revis which clearly isnt happening now.

The most likely guy to be traded you didnt even list...Matt Flynn, hes about the only realistic trade option we have in terms of guys other teams would have interest in and we wouldnt mind moving.

We have a TON of cap space right now and we will get our guys signed.
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Pie Romania


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
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Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
None of those guys are being traded...

This thread is kind of coming out of left field in my opinion... I mean talking about trading Kam Chancellor are you kidding me? Hes one of the building blocks of our D and will be here a long time. Leon and McCoy? Not exactly the type of players teams go out and trade for, I mean if Winslow only got a conditional 7th what in the world would any team give up for McCoy?

Browner is the only reasonable name to throw out, but alot of that was coming from him being a package for Revis which clearly isnt happening now.

The most likely guy to be traded you didnt even list...Matt Flynn, hes about the only realistic trade option we have in terms of guys other teams would have interest in and we wouldnt mind moving.

We have a TON of cap space right now and we will get our guys signed.


Flynn was a given. Didn't think I had to state the obvious. I wouldn't go so far as to say we have a "ton" of space either. What we have right now may seem like a lot, but it's really not. Like I said, I am a HUGE Kam Chancellor supporter, but if you think we will be able to keep all of our stars with no problems, I'd bet you'd be mistaken. Kam and Sherm are my favorite players on the team. I wouldn't throw out Kam's name for no reason.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pie Romania wrote:
sirensong wrote:
None of those guys are being traded...

This thread is kind of coming out of left field in my opinion... I mean talking about trading Kam Chancellor are you kidding me? Hes one of the building blocks of our D and will be here a long time. Leon and McCoy? Not exactly the type of players teams go out and trade for, I mean if Winslow only got a conditional 7th what in the world would any team give up for McCoy?

Browner is the only reasonable name to throw out, but alot of that was coming from him being a package for Revis which clearly isnt happening now.

The most likely guy to be traded you didnt even list...Matt Flynn, hes about the only realistic trade option we have in terms of guys other teams would have interest in and we wouldnt mind moving.

We have a TON of cap space right now and we will get our guys signed.


Flynn was a given. Didn't think I had to state the obvious. I wouldn't go so far as to say we have a "ton" of space either. What we have right now may seem like a lot, but it's really not. Like I said, I am a HUGE Kam Chancellor supporter, but if you think we will be able to keep all of our stars with no problems, I'd bet you'd be mistaken. Kam and Sherm are my favorite players on the team. I wouldn't throw out Kam's name for no reason.


The stark reality is that we are going to lose players over the next 3-4 years. Besides BB, Kam probably is the next likely casualty. Russell Okung is already on a big contract (so getting the next one shouldn't misbalance the current cap situation by a lot) and ET/Sherm will definitely get a nice payday. Other players like KJ Wright won't get a contract near what Kam could potentially get.
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sirensong


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
Pie Romania wrote:
sirensong wrote:
None of those guys are being traded...

This thread is kind of coming out of left field in my opinion... I mean talking about trading Kam Chancellor are you kidding me? Hes one of the building blocks of our D and will be here a long time. Leon and McCoy? Not exactly the type of players teams go out and trade for, I mean if Winslow only got a conditional 7th what in the world would any team give up for McCoy?

Browner is the only reasonable name to throw out, but alot of that was coming from him being a package for Revis which clearly isnt happening now.

The most likely guy to be traded you didnt even list...Matt Flynn, hes about the only realistic trade option we have in terms of guys other teams would have interest in and we wouldnt mind moving.

We have a TON of cap space right now and we will get our guys signed.


Flynn was a given. Didn't think I had to state the obvious. I wouldn't go so far as to say we have a "ton" of space either. What we have right now may seem like a lot, but it's really not. Like I said, I am a HUGE Kam Chancellor supporter, but if you think we will be able to keep all of our stars with no problems, I'd bet you'd be mistaken. Kam and Sherm are my favorite players on the team. I wouldn't throw out Kam's name for no reason.


The stark reality is that we are going to lose players over the next 3-4 years. Besides BB, Kam probably is the next likely casualty. Russell Okung is already on a big contract (so getting the next one shouldn't misbalance the current cap situation by a lot) and ET/Sherm will definitely get a nice payday. Other players like KJ Wright won't get a contract near what Kam could potentially get.


Kam's going not going anywhere, yes we have some young stars to get locked up. But guys like Bryant, Clemons, and even guys like Rice and Miller and Washington will either be gone or have restructured deals. We can clear room by letting go of aging players to keep the young guys.

Keeping the talented youth should and will be the priority. Theres no way a guy like Red keeps his contract while we let Kam go, it just won't happen.
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bobob123


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Schneider is a pretty smart guy, and I'm sure he can see a way of signing all of our guys to long term contacts.

Okung & Earl are going to be in their 4th year of their rookie deals, so they don't need to be resigned yet.

Kam will get a nice deal but nothing HUGE like Earl, and I'm sure it will be cap friendly.

Sherm's deal will be a prob IMO, If he has another year like he did last year we might be talking about Sherm being the highest paid CB in the league.

BB is still on contract and at his age might re-sign after next year to a cap friendly deal just to stay with the team.

I don't see Leon or McCoy having any trade value, Leon has a big deal for just being a return guy, and McCoy is still raw and underdeveloped as a TE, every team in the league has a TE like McCoy on their roster.


The beauty of all our guys is their contracts are all offset to each other and that means John can 'front load' or 'back load' the deals as need be... and trading off Flynn will net us another $3.5 Mill to the cap space which can be used to help resign one of the players mentioned above.... and that brings up a question, Will we be having cap rollover every year, or is it just for this year only?
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Pie Romania


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 1828
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bobob123 wrote:
John Schneider is a pretty smart guy, and I'm sure he can see a way of signing all of our guys to long term contacts.

Okung & Earl are going to be in their 4th year of their rookie deals, so they don't need to be resigned yet.

Kam will get a nice deal but nothing HUGE like Earl, and I'm sure it will be cap friendly.

Sherm's deal will be a prob IMO, If he has another year like he did last year we might be talking about Sherm being the highest paid CB in the league.

BB is still on contract and at his age might re-sign after next year to a cap friendly deal just to stay with the team.

I don't see Leon or McCoy having any trade value, Leon has a big deal for just being a return guy, and McCoy is still raw and underdeveloped as a TE, every team in the league has a TE like McCoy on their roster.


The beauty of all our guys is their contracts are all offset to each other and that means John can 'front load' or 'back load' the deals as need be... and trading off Flynn will net us another $3.5 Mill to the cap space which can be used to help resign one of the players mentioned above.... and that brings up a question, Will we be having cap rollover every year, or is it just for this year only?


Don't quote me on this, but I believe every team has to spend 89-90% of the available cap room. Either way, my dream is to keep all of our young star players. I am just unsure that it actually can happen. Here's hoping our FO can make some magic happen.
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MAC DRE


Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trades really don't happen that much in football. No one would ever trade for McCoy or an old back up RB/KR in Leon. But I do agree that Kam is a product of the system. I think we could easily replace him. I like the guy, but outside of hittin hard I think he's a bit overrated honestly.
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think teams that have player who have success when they are young stay together. John will have to restructure and play with guaranteed money but he comes from the GB organization. They pay their guys and are able to fill holes really quickly. So if Kam or Sherm or Okung or Anyone leave I have faith in our FO we will get someone that can produce just as good.
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Pie Romania


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
I think teams that have player who have success when they are young stay together. John will have to restructure and play with guaranteed money but he comes from the GB organization. They pay their guys and are able to fill holes really quickly. So if Kam or Sherm or Okung or Anyone leave I have faith in our FO we will get someone that can produce just as good.


Kind of the point I am making...

If we can't retain one of our young guys and they can net us a high draft pick or two, I believe we should trade them rather than just letting them hit the open market. That would give us more ammo to effectively fill the position with the least amount of drop-off possible. Potentially even upgrading the position without sacrificing one of our original picks. The main point was trying to figure out what certain guys might be worth should we feel the need to trade them.
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't think we will need high draft picks to replace these guys. Honestly Seattle FO has been shaky with the 1st and 2nd Rounds. But they've hit on most their later draft picks.

On the business side of it I see your point. Trading a player in the last year of the contract isn't a bad move. But I believe this team will stay intact. At least Core players like Sherm, Okung, ET, Wilson and a few more. Guys like Wright and Kam aren't really as important.
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Difference in philosophy. Teams that are ready to win, which Seattle is, are trying to keep their team together. Teams that are rebuilding will want to trade every talented person on their roster.

Most teams can only stay really good for 5 years before rebuild mode. Mostly because they will over pay players and get into cap trouble. The teams that remain on top for the long haul. Are willing to let players walk.
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TheoryofSeahawk


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there is any way to avoid losing players due to salary cap structure, but the key is to know when to cut guys loose. The key is to be able to recognize when players have turned the corner in their careers and are starting to decline skill wise or under perform their contracts. Plus the FO must stay away from the bloated FA agent contracts. Hopefully the guy hired to replace John Idzik can step right in and manage our cap space and keep our developing young guys here. As far as who will go, I would think Leon Washington has to be near the top of the list. He is still an effective kick returner, but with the rules changes that position has been reduced in value. Plus he adds nothing to our offense at the RB position. I also think Red Bryant needs to find a way to return to his 2011 form or he may be looking at becoming a cap casualty. The other player I'm a little worried about resigning is Sherm. Not because of his talent, but because I think he may be headed for diva status and thus try to break the bank and become the highest paid player. I don't have a problem with guys trying to get as much as they can while they play, but if he tries to get 12-15 mil per season or more, the 'Hawks are going to be in a tough position in terms of balancing the salary cap with future contracts like Russell Wilson when his rookie contract expires. Hopefully the team can capitalize on their success soon and get that SB title next year.
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SupeRG00F


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how Kam is a product of the system. You could plug someone else in there but I don't think they'd have the same production. 100 tackles for a safety isn't common.

I would be pretty depressed if he was let go/traded and am trying not to make excuses for him to be recognized as someone we can't lose. I know Sherm and Earl are much more important to the team than Kam, but he isn't a product of the system.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SupeRG00F wrote:
I don't see how Kam is a product of the system. You could plug someone else in there but I don't think they'd have the same production. 100 tackles for a safety isn't common.

I would be pretty depressed if he was let go/traded and am trying not to make excuses for him to be recognized as someone we can't lose. I know Sherm and Earl are much more important to the team than Kam, but he isn't a product of the system.
Seattle lets Kam play as a 4th LB most of the time. He's in a position to wrap up a lot of tackles.
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