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Ponder-iffic or Ponder-errible? the 2013 Pre-Season Debate.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disaacs wrote:
Take it for what it's worth, but Ponder was the 7th worst QB under pressure last season:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/317662385437556736/photo/1

Ponder was better than Michael Vick, Andy Dalton, and Mark Sanchez (among those with a significant amount of dropbacks), but the 3 just ahead of him on this "worst" list will be pretty surprising for most.

Just for comparison's sake, here's the top 10:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/317652846252265475/photo/1


Question.

If the raiders were somehow to drop Palmer because he won't restructure, would anyone be interested in bringing him in?

If so please don't use the kill his confidence excuse. Franchises aren't suppose to coddle players.
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Purple Faithful


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt

5 Aaron Rodgers, QB 7.78
16 Jay Cutler, QB 6.99
21 Matthew Stafford, QB 6.83
31 Christian Ponder, QB 6.08

32 Blaine Gabbert, QB 5.98

Yards per attempt, slightly better indicator than passer rating, and it speaks to the problem. Easier to understand, too. No point in ignoring we face a stacked box, then throw in front of it often.
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twslhs20


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tend to prefer AYPP. It accounts for interceptions.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple Faithful wrote:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt

5 Aaron Rodgers, QB 7.78
16 Jay Cutler, QB 6.99
21 Matthew Stafford, QB 6.83
31 Christian Ponder, QB 6.08

32 Blaine Gabbert, QB 5.98

Yards per attempt, slightly better indicator than passer rating, and it speaks to the problem. Easier to understand, too. No point in ignoring we face a stacked box, then throw in front of it often.


YPA is a better indicator of what, exactly?

What is the ultimate duty of a QB?

Because a typical QBs YPA is almost 75% more than a typical RBs YPC, why wouldn't teams pass on every play?

A hint at the problem in your logic: 'per'.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:
Tend to prefer AYPP. It accounts for interceptions.


You're getting warmer. Keep going.

Wink
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Vikefan79


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twslhs20 wrote:


If the raiders were somehow to drop Palmer because he won't restructure, would anyone be interested in bringing him in?

If so please don't use the kill his confidence excuse. Franchises aren't suppose to coddle players.


No because at this point I don't think Palmer is much of an upgrade over Ponder and he would cost too much.
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Purple Faithful


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
Purple Faithful wrote:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt

5 Aaron Rodgers, QB 7.78
16 Jay Cutler, QB 6.99
21 Matthew Stafford, QB 6.83
31 Christian Ponder, QB 6.08

32 Blaine Gabbert, QB 5.98

Yards per attempt, slightly better indicator than passer rating, and it speaks to the problem. Easier to understand, too. No point in ignoring we face a stacked box, then throw in front of it often.


YPA is a better indicator of what, exactly?

What is the ultimate duty of a QB?

Because a typical QBs YPA is almost 75% more than a typical RBs YPC, why wouldn't teams pass on every play?

A hint at the problem in your logic: 'per'.
Winning the game. Yes, you can fine-tune YPA.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_net_yds_per_att_career.htm

Anyway, for my money, Vikes won 10 games, so, what they say is worth the benefit of the doubt. Problem, to me, is obvious. Vikes don't throw over the box very often, and it reflects in Ponder's numbers. If everyone was spread out more, then the short ones probably would work a bit better. Everyone's packed in to stop AD, though, and vikes don't throw over that. Vikes say the reason for that is the WR position. Harvin is an elite talent, but is never where he is supposed to be. So, the talented WR the vikes had couldn't be trusted to be where he is supposed to and the passing attack struggled. The signed Jennings and say they love him because he's a precise route runner. Problem addressed. Probably get further addressed in the draft.

Good enough for me, because Vikes won 10 games. Without much offense. Vikes offense basically scored what the defense gave up - worth about a .500 record. Vikes were 6-6 in games without a return TD (pick or kick/punt) 4-0 in games where they had a return. Vikes did no worse without Harvin, matter fact, they did better. Further proof vikes are on top of the problem. So, 10 wins without a marginal passing attack. Return game is worse right now, but I'll trade kick returns for a viable passing attack. I'm willing to wait and see as the Vikes have earned a pass on the passing attack. 10 wins.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Purple Faithful;

Could it be that the smaller YPA was partly due to Musgraves' scheme to throw short, to Harvin, and throw shorter to keep Ponders' completion pct high, and avoid risky throws downfield to avoid turnovers?
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DJpillz317


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the kid; he has a fantastic work ethic and seems like a great person. He has made some boneheaded plays, but that's to be expected at this point in his career for the most part. I think he has the "clutch gene" possibly, I saw it during the Redskins game where he got us back in the game, but the defense gave up that 70 yard TD run to RGIII. The last Packer game comes to mind, and the first game of the year during the Jags game.

I think if we give him some more talent to boost his confidence, he will be a solid starter for us. Worst case, we get our guy in a year or two.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purplexing wrote:
@ Purple Faithful;

Could it be that the smaller YPA was partly due to Musgraves' scheme to throw short, to Harvin, and throw shorter to keep Ponders' completion pct high, and avoid risky throws downfield to avoid turnovers?


The Vikings definitely ran an offense that didn't ask much from Ponder but that was because they didn't trust him. That needs to be seen as a negative.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
I like the kid; he has a fantastic work ethic and seems like a great person. He has made some boneheaded plays, but that's to be expected at this point in his career for the most part. I think he has the "clutch gene" possibly, I saw it during the Redskins game where he got us back in the game, but the defense gave up that 70 yard TD run to RGIII. The last Packer game comes to mind, and the first game of the year during the Jags game.

I think if we give him some more talent to boost his confidence, he will be a solid starter for us. Worst case, we get our guy in a year or two.

i like you.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
Purplexing wrote:
@ Purple Faithful;

Could it be that the smaller YPA was partly due to Musgraves' scheme to throw short, to Harvin, and throw shorter to keep Ponders' completion pct high, and avoid risky throws downfield to avoid turnovers?


The Vikings definitely ran an offense that didn't ask much from Ponder but that was because they didn't trust him. That needs to be seen as a negative.


Or perhaps the WR corps was so dreadful, even when Harvin was active, that the team has no confidence in the receivers. It goes both ways. His WRs were dreadful, even when Harvin was running 5 yard patterns or less.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're being dishonest if you watched the games. Ponder was scared in the pocket and inaccurate downfield much of the year. In the 2nd Bears game, the Vikings were flat out afraid to let him throw the ball.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worm Guts wrote:
I think you're being dishonest if you watched the games. Ponder was scared in the pocket and inaccurate downfield much of the year. In the 2nd Bears game, the Vikings were flat out afraid to let him throw the ball.


again, can you blame them. Jenkins & co were brutal downfield and couldnt get separation.
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Worm Guts


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's just deflecting from the issue. Ponder played poorly on his own and it was obvious.
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