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Ponder-iffic or Ponder-errible? the 2013 Pre-Season Debate.
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Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And how old are those guys compared to Christian? Open and shut case.
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Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
Doesn't Tony Romo have similar sleeves too.



I think so, it just bother's me so much. LOL It's my OCD mode coming out in full swing.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem with Ponder is not the full sleeves of his jersey. it's the lack of grey pants in the color scheme.

really throws him off.



always good to have Frank back for a visit!

Very Happy
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Frank Costello


Joined: 01 Mar 2009
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Location: in 2009, Vikings>Saints
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
the problem with Ponder is not the full sleeves of his jersey. it's the lack of grey pants in the color scheme.

really throws him off.



always good to have Frank back for a visit!

Very Happy





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Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Cam Newton
Andrew Luck
Colin Kaepernick
Andy Dalton
RG3
Wilson
Ryan Tannehill

I would take any of these QBs over Ponder.


That's a decent list.

Tannehill's numbers weren't great last year but he looked good in highlights and gets to play with Wallace this year.

Dalton has been productive but he's really struggled in some key areas, like in the red zone and with downfield accuracy, and hasn't shown much in big games. I'd say it's still possible that he won't have a great career.

Of the other 5, Newton, Luck and RG3 weren't available (once Webb leads the rally to win in Washington).

Kaepernick and Wilson are pretty obviously going to be top flight QBs and were definite misses by the Vikings on draft day. I think the team's experiences with Webb and TJack biased them against Kaepernick, who seemed more like a project coming out. I'd also say the Seahawks and Niners would be top flight teams, probably better than the Vikings, even without elite QB play (the Niners went 13-3 and were an unlucky bounce on a punt away from the Super Bowl with Alex Smith, the Seahawks won a playoff game in 2010 with Hasselbeck and have been formidable in preseason even with TJack and other lesser QBs playing with backups).

I'd say there's still a good chance that Ponder can become Alex Smith Jr: competent game manager, overdrafted compared to better QBs taken later the same year (Kaepernick, Rodgers), able to hold a starting job but never capable of making the team a favorite.

That's not great but not terrible. It would be upgrade over anything we've had at QB since Daunte blew out his knee, aside from Favre's one good year. It may be a tough choice to decide whether to continue building around him (which is what happened in SF with Smith until midseason in his 7th year) or move on.


Last edited by Krauser on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
And how old are those guys compared to Christian? Open and shut case.


Andy Dalton often wears long sleeves underneath his jersey...what's his excuse?

I like the traditional sleeves myself (the cuffed short sleeves actually look kinda silly, see Russell Wilson for example)...and in 2014-15, those long sleeves will come in handy.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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Location: Toronto, CA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:

I'd say there's still a good chance that Ponder can become Alex Smith Jr: competent game manager, overdrafted compared to better QBs taken later the same year (Kaepernick, Rodgers), able to hold a starting job but never capable of making the team a favorite.


I agree, Ponder's peak is likely merely average game manager
If it stays that way, I wouldn't want to give him a long term deal, I'd rather move on and throw someone else on the field (may be better, maybe won't be better, but its a chance you gotta take if you want a chip)
We have a window right now with Jared, AP, Greenway, rather solid O-Line and great young players all over the squad and top notch special teams.

We should be looking to strike while the iron is hot, and make it hot by striking.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/82202/season-of-reckoning-for-2011-qb-class

Analysis of the 2011 drafted QBs from a scout at ESPN, says nicer things about Ponder than his coaching, and puts some doubts on Dalton's ceiling (who gets lumped in with Ponder, Locker and Gabbert, not Newton and Kaepernick).

In terms of the Vikings scheme this year, I'd say they don't need "play action bombs" so much as they need intermediate routes that keep the LBs back on their heels in play action (similar to what RG3 did to us last year). Ponder actually did OK in that range against SF last week: 4/4 on passes targeted 10-20 yards downfield.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PaulWall_23 wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
milanb wrote:
There's about a half dozen QBs taken in 2011-2012 who have looked better than him so far.


and I think Dalton and Ponder are about the same QB.



Good one.


This has been said for about 3 years now since they've been drafted, but gosh. Thanks.

oh, and judging by that picture, Ponder might be staring down his receiver, so he'll never be anything more than a low tier starting QB.

Hey, am I doing it right?
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wcblack34


Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 5769
Location: Anywhere but Wisconsin.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Costello wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
the problem with Ponder is not the full sleeves of his jersey. it's the lack of grey pants in the color scheme.

really throws him off.



always good to have Frank back for a visit!

Very Happy







This gets my vote for best exchange between two posters Smile
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pjnugget


Joined: 27 Aug 2013
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Ponder-iffic or Ponder-errible? the 2013 Pre-Season Deba Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:


Brian Billick: "I think it's time to start holding Christian Ponder accountable. But only if they give him the proper weapons. Percy Harvin is a heck of a weapon. And when he was healthy, he was a great way to go. They don't have that big shot down the field. They were hoping Jerome Simpson could be that. They don't have that. That's got to be a top priority. For me, I've got to come out with a big play weapon down the field."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/193332151.html


it's been way too quiet on the FF Viking forum as to Ponder's ability and opportunity to be our long term starting QB. i say let the debate rage on, yet another year!


I haven't really seen anything to make me think Ponder is the future. He is absolutly awful throwing the deep ball. He usually isn't within 10 yards of his target. That's not exactly a formula for success.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome aboard, pj!

feel free to sign in to our INTRO thread at the top of the page!

Applause
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Ponder-iffic or Ponder-errible? the 2013 Pre-Season Deba Reply with quote

pjnugget wrote:
vike daddy wrote:


Brian Billick: "I think it's time to start holding Christian Ponder accountable. But only if they give him the proper weapons. Percy Harvin is a heck of a weapon. And when he was healthy, he was a great way to go. They don't have that big shot down the field. They were hoping Jerome Simpson could be that. They don't have that. That's got to be a top priority. For me, I've got to come out with a big play weapon down the field."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/blogs/193332151.html


it's been way too quiet on the FF Viking forum as to Ponder's ability and opportunity to be our long term starting QB. i say let the debate rage on, yet another year!


I haven't really seen anything to make me think Ponder is the future. He is absolutly awful throwing the deep ball. He usually isn't within 10 yards of his target. That's not exactly a formula for success.


I disagree with two things in this post, Ponder is actually average at throwing a deep ball, he doesn't have the strongest arm, but on his completions he's shown quite good touch. I also disagree that he needs to be super successful at it to have success in the league, you can have plenty of success without throwing the deep ball, his completion percentage in 10-20 yards is what I'm going to be watching this year, if he can get that to 55% plus, which would put him ahead of QB's like Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco then he has a chance, that number is the number that needs to improve from the 46%, because then as a team we'll be able to move the ball down the field better while passing.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realistically, what we need is for defenses to respect the downfield passing. I'm hoping Wright and Patterson can make those plays for us, and Ponder can get it there.

Throwing the deep ball is not a formula for success, simply because its not called that much, and its much harder for any QB to do (its simple physics).

So if Ponder can improve on the passes that go from 10-25 yards, it'll be a good year for him and for this team. It'd be real nice to take away some pressure from the Runningback.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deep ball wont make or break a QB. Its the 15-30 yard routes that will. You need to be able to hit those chunks in the passing game and have the throwing velocity to make those throws in traffic. Ponder has not shown the skills to succeed in this area yet, on a consistent level, but his receivers have been horrible so its hard to put the blame on him. This year will be telling since Jennings has had a long career excelling in the 15-30 yard area and Patterson should do well in this part of the passing game as well.
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