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49ers trade QB Alex Smith to Chiefs for 2nd rounder, another
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Mongo


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pierrepet wrote:
bpinsky33 wrote:
Chiefer wrote:

The BIG difference is our defense. We were really close in 2003 but we couldn't stop the Colts to save our lives.


I really dont understand the comparisons to Trent Green. Trent Green had 4 season in which he threw for over 4,000 yards and 2 more over 3600 yards. Green also had TD numbers of 26, 24 and 27. Alex Smith has never been close to 4,000 yard passing, only exclisping the 3000 yard mark once and has never thrown for even 20 TD's?

What exactly are their similarities?

Good call. There is no comparison. Trent Green Was solid B-grade QB, which you can win a SB with. Alex Smith is a C+ QB. You can win an SB with them too but you better have an A grade team around him, like the 49ers. The Chiefs are not there yet.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantasy football has ruined the world!!!! Aaaaaarrrrggghhh!!!!
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trent Green had never had a 4000 yard season when he came to KC.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Quote:
Thats taking a page out of the Seinfeld episode where one character who is a loser starts doing the exact opposite of what he usually would do and becomes successful.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vyb5dkQZPw

This was LOL awesome though.. posted for the younglings... Laughing


Hi my name is RVM, I'm unemployed and live with my parents.


Just assumed that everyone with a post count exceeding 1000 is.. and does...




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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefer wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:

To be fair it's gotten us 3 byes....no, we don't have an actual playoff win to enjoy, but that's not cuz our teams haven't been good enough. If those teams weren't quite good enough to get a playoff bye or if there was no bye, we'd have some playoff wins.

QB trades thru the years have been sited as the biggest reason for lack of a playoff win and that is part of it....Bono, Grbac, and Cassel were pitiful trades and the biggest reason their team lost in the playoffs....guys with no upside (Bono, Cassel) or no heart, leadership, intangibles (Grbac), not to mention all 3 were unproven as starting NFL QB's. Mind Boggling.

Now when we've traded for a proven QB, that has turned out great...Montana notched 2 playoff wins and Green, who had proven himself legit not only with the greatest show on turf but a very nice season with the Redskins. We didn't lose to the Colts or fail to make the playoffs in 02,04, and 05 because our QB wasn't good enough. We ignored the defense and it cost us dearly..maybe if we draft Palalmalu or Scrabble instead of LJ it's a different story.

Alex falls into that same category...a proven starter with playoff success.

To be fair Byes mean diddly when you don't win anyway.

Playoff Success? One win, against a crappy Saints defense and an elite Defense and running game supporting him? Then he faces a real D like the Giants and looks like crap. Coincidentally they lose.

Proven, sure.


Were you this skeptical of Trent Green? He had no playoff experience and would have won plenty of playoff games in KC if the D was even average.

The point about the byes was that we would more than likely have 3 playoff wins if we got to host a 1st round game instead of wait til the 2nd round.
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People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pierrepet wrote:


I really dont understand the comparisons to Trent Green. Trent Green had 4 season in which he threw for over 4,000 yards and 2 more over 3600 yards. Green also had TD numbers of 26, 24 and 27. Alex Smith has never been close to 4,000 yard passing, only exclisping the 3000 yard mark once and has never thrown for even 20 TD's?

What exactly are their similarities?


Trent Green's best quality was accuracy and decision making...so is Alex, with more mobility. Don't you think Alex could've put up similar numbers with that OL, Priest Holmes, Dante Hall, and Tony G? Also, Alex was well on pace for over 20 TD's this year.

Wilmtalk, I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that Geno has a good chance of being a franchise QB...he just doesn't necessarily have the makings up a superstar or elite QB.
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49ers Finest wrote:

People just seem to be mad because the chiefs are all of a sudden doing what their fans thought they were capable of
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Trent Green had never had a 4000 yard season when he came to KC.


Correct, sir. To play devil's advocate, though, here are his first 3 seasons (before he came to the Chiefs:

1997 (Rookie season): WAS, didn't play.
1998: 14 GS for WAS, 278/509, 54.6%, 3441 yds, 23 TDs, 11 INTs, 6.7 YPA, 49 Sacks, 81.8 QBR
1999: 5 GS for STL, 145/240, 60.4%, 2063 yds, 16 TDs, 5 INTs, 8.6 YPA, 24 Sacks, 101.8 QBR

In his second season starting, he was on pace for well over 4,000 yards that season with 3.33 TDs per start. That was the year Kurt Warner took over and brought the Greatest Show on Turf to the Super Bowl. Better supporting cast? Sure. His first two seasons were both better than Alex's, though. I know, I know, extenuating circumstances and everything. I get that. The bottom line is that Alex Smith has started a full season twice during his career. Two out of eight seasons. His last four seasons have either been very close to or above 60% completion %, which is definitely an upgrade over Cassel.

My point is that Alex's history as a player has proven he can't stay healthy, but when healthy, is a solid starter. And he'll be 29 when the season starts.

In short, we NEED another starting quality QB. BEFORE this year, he's missed 30 games. 30 games out of 112 possible starts. That's 26.78% of the games he was expected to start that he couldn't due to injury. Yes, that's averaging more than 4 games every year. To say the least, that's concerning. His sacks and fumbles aren't much of an issue in my eyes. It's that he's 29 years old, we gave up what was essentially a late 1st rounder and he's missed more than a quarter of his games due to injury.

We still need Geno. BADLY.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Trent Green had never had a 4000 yard season when he came to KC.


Correct, sir. To play devil's advocate, though, here are his first 3 seasons (before he came to the Chiefs:

1997 (Rookie season): WAS, didn't play.
1998: 14 GS for WAS, 278/509, 54.6%, 3441 yds, 23 TDs, 11 INTs, 6.7 YPA, 49 Sacks, 81.8 QBR
1999: 5 GS for STL, 145/240, 60.4%, 2063 yds, 16 TDs, 5 INTs, 8.6 YPA, 24 Sacks, 101.8 QBR

In his second season starting, he was on pace for well over 4,000 yards that season with 3.33 TDs per start. That was the year Kurt Warner took over and brought the Greatest Show on Turf to the Super Bowl. Better supporting cast? Sure. His first two seasons were both better than Alex's, though. I know, I know, extenuating circumstances and everything. I get that. The bottom line is that Alex Smith has started a full season twice during his career. Two out of eight seasons. His last four seasons have either been very close to or above 60% completion %, which is definitely an upgrade over Cassel.

My point is that Alex's history as a player has proven he can't stay healthy, but when healthy, is a solid starter. And he'll be 29 when the season starts.

In short, we NEED another starting quality QB. BEFORE this year, he's missed 30 games. 30 games out of 112 possible starts. That's 26.78% of the games he was expected to start that he couldn't due to injury. Yes, that's averaging more than 4 games every year. To say the least, that's concerning. His sacks and fumbles aren't much of an issue in my eyes. It's that he's 29 years old, we gave up what was essentially a late 1st rounder and he's missed more than a quarter of his games due to injury.

We still need Geno. BADLY.


Trent Green was drafted in 1993 by SD. Got cut in Canada Football and spent 95-98 with the skins. He never recorded stats so they aren't on ESPN. He did NOT play in 99 those are his 2000 stats when Warner got hurt. He came off the bench for Warner. Got injured in pre-season 99.

You can we need Geno all you want, but if it happens I'll bring the 30 pack for day 2 of the draft.
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ryknowssd


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Trent Green was drafted in 1993 by SD. Got cut in Canada Football and spent 95-98 with the skins. He never recorded stats so they aren't on ESPN. He did NOT play in 99 those are his 2000 stats when Warner got hurt. He came off the bench for Warner. Got injured in pre-season 99.

You can we need Geno all you want, but if it happens I'll bring the 30 pack for day 2 of the draft.


Doh! That's what I get for using ESPN! Laughing

It's a sad, sad day when wiki is more accurate than a major sports outlet...

...and deal. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryknowssd wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
Trent Green was drafted in 1993 by SD. Got cut in Canada Football and spent 95-98 with the skins. He never recorded stats so they aren't on ESPN. He did NOT play in 99 those are his 2000 stats when Warner got hurt. He came off the bench for Warner. Got injured in pre-season 99.

You can we need Geno all you want, but if it happens I'll bring the 30 pack for day 2 of the draft.


Doh! That's what I get for using ESPN! Laughing

It's a sad, sad day when wiki is more accurate than a major sports outlet...

...and deal. Cool


the only reason I know, is cause I looked at ESPN to see his stats before KC. I saw 1997 as his 1st year while seeing 15 year veteran. I knew something wasn't right. I had to investigate. Laughing
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Mongo


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:

Were you this skeptical of Trent Green? He had no playoff experience and would have won plenty of playoff games in KC if the D was even average.

The point about the byes was that we would more than likely have 3 playoff wins if we got to host a 1st round game instead of wait til the 2nd round.

I was. KC gave up an R1 for him after giving up an R2 for Vermeil. I wanted Drew Brees.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
Chiefer wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:

To be fair it's gotten us 3 byes....no, we don't have an actual playoff win to enjoy, but that's not cuz our teams haven't been good enough. If those teams weren't quite good enough to get a playoff bye or if there was no bye, we'd have some playoff wins.

QB trades thru the years have been sited as the biggest reason for lack of a playoff win and that is part of it....Bono, Grbac, and Cassel were pitiful trades and the biggest reason their team lost in the playoffs....guys with no upside (Bono, Cassel) or no heart, leadership, intangibles (Grbac), not to mention all 3 were unproven as starting NFL QB's. Mind Boggling.

Now when we've traded for a proven QB, that has turned out great...Montana notched 2 playoff wins and Green, who had proven himself legit not only with the greatest show on turf but a very nice season with the Redskins. We didn't lose to the Colts or fail to make the playoffs in 02,04, and 05 because our QB wasn't good enough. We ignored the defense and it cost us dearly..maybe if we draft Palalmalu or Scrabble instead of LJ it's a different story.

Alex falls into that same category...a proven starter with playoff success.

To be fair Byes mean diddly when you don't win anyway.

Playoff Success? One win, against a crappy Saints defense and an elite Defense and running game supporting him? Then he faces a real D like the Giants and looks like crap. Coincidentally they lose.

Proven, sure.


Were you this skeptical of Trent Green? He had no playoff experience and would have won plenty of playoff games in KC if the D was even average.

The point about the byes was that we would more than likely have 3 playoff wins if we got to host a 1st round game instead of wait til the 2nd round.

Probably but I was 10 years old at the time so I wasn't that big a fan , then again Green had good success with Vermeil, started over Warner at one point, and was going to a system he already knew and was tailor made for. I wouldve forgoven that trade a lot more, I'm not seeing that with Smith who's got no where near the same arm strength as Green that could fit Reid's vertical attack.

And don't be such a revisionist, we lost and that's that. Doing the same thin we always do.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your assuming Reid will use "his" vertical attack. I'll bet we run a pretty traditional WCO. Moves the chains consistently.
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wilmtalk


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
wilmtalk wrote:
I was one of the first of the 49'ers site that wanted Kaep to start over Smith. In comparison with Kaep Smith doesn't measure up. He is not a QB who has all the tools or can do everything. He is however a good QB. What I can not understand is the posters on this site who are upset with this trade. It was a good trade for KC. It was a good trade for SF because they had Kaep. If Kaep were not there or a lesser QB the Niners would not have traded him for even more or better picks.

Some KC fans are upset because the FO did not want to take a gamble with Geno. Now it is agreed by most to All the scouts that that there are no QB's in this draft worthy of a first round pick. It would only be an act of desperation that would make any team waste a first round pick on any of them. Yet the fans rational is that they should take a gamble on Geno using the #1 pick just because their might me a slim chance that he could end up being a franchise QB. The rational being that they have never picked a QB first before and they should try it because the other way hasn't worked yet. Right so lets wait for a draft when it is least likely to have any success to do so. Very convoluted reasoning. Thats taking a page out of the Seinfeld episode where one character who is a loser starts doing the exact opposite of what he usually would do and becomes successful. Totally moronic reasoning. They don't want to give up a second for Smith, but are willing to give up the first pick in the draft on a long shot.


Just a hint, if you want to come into another forum and if your true intent is to engage in a dialogue, maybe refrain from insulting people. Again, just a hint. I realize the fact that your teaming being on an apparent upswing may give you the distinct ability to be an extert on all NFL teams, but coming across the way you did might not be the best way to start a conversation.


No I don't consider myself an expert on any NFL team let alone all. There are many aspects of football that are presently beyond my comprehension. There are a few that I think I know well enough to comment on. I try to stay away from those that I am ignorant in and just shut up and try to learn. First I didn't even say that I had read those specific lines of reason on this site. I said some KC fans used this line of reasoning. It was the line of reasoning I was commenting on. This same line of reasoning is not totally limited to football but is relevant to any subject. The line I referred to as moronic was the idea that if playing it safe has never worked than the logical alternative is to take a big risk. Risks are logical only if the reward is great enough to balance out the risk. Taking a risk should not be confused with picking a QB early. Now that might make sense to say-- Not taking a QB high in the draft has never worked so it makes sense to try that. Now that might make sense. That is much different than taking a QB when the odds of success are the minimal as is the case this year.

Example you might take a chance against the odds if the reward justifies it. The odds of winning the lottery is astronomical however betting a dollar makes the risk minimal. Now it would be ridiculous to bet say a thousand dollars if that money was scarce and needed to make the house payments. The risk of the loss of the house and the odds time's a thousand would only increase the chance of winning a fraction so it wouldn't be enough to justify that bet.

That was my point about this years QB crop. Sure sometimes you hit the lottery with a pick but one must always consider the cost against the risk. Remember there are very few sure bets picks at QB in the NFL. This year it's seems the risk weighted against reward is much higher than normal. It would even make more sense to trade this years #1 for a # 1 next year when the Class is stronger. I still stand by my statement on that type of reasoning to be Moronic and illogical. I believe that most NFL coaching staffs are generally better acquiped to evaluate talent and make that sort of decision than the majority of fans who might be driven by frustration and impatience. Not everyone is good at everything and it is often that fans because of frustration fall into a pattern of thinking that is more emotional rather than logic driven. My point in my first post was to point that out. I have also in my past been fallen into illogical thinking. That does not make me stupid or moronic. It only says that under certain conditions I am capable of that. I do not intent to insult the individual rather the logic the individual used. There is a difference. We do not need to be defined by our perspective if we allow ourselves the capability to change that perspective.
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Diesel2692


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Your assuming Reid will use "his" vertical attack. I'll bet we run a pretty traditional WCO. Moves the chains consistently.


We will have to. Reid gonna have to get back to his roots.
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