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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: What to do about Sean Smith? Reply with quote

Sean Smith is without question a tough decision. On the surface, I really do agree with the camp that says let him walk. Actually, if I just examine Smith and his contract demands, I say let him walk too. No doubt. His play is okay, but he is no ball hawk and he is asking for WAY to much money. However, the CB class of free agents which I have heard referred to as "very good' isn't so great to me upon closer examination.

Here's one site's list of free agent CB's. Agree or disagree about the rankings, I don't care, I'm just wanting everyone to see who is likely to be available, so I use this site just for the sake of discussion:

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2013CB.php


My take on some of the Free Agent CB's in this years class:


1) Sam Shields is a restricted FA and going to be retained by the Packers. Or at least they are going to give him a tender and we'd have to compensate with draft picks. He also is a bit short, which is, supposedly not what Coyle likes in his corners. I'd love Shields, but I think the is a long shot to be available unless we give up a 1st or 2nd.

2) Aqib Talib - He looked great in NE, but he is a head case and Philbin has supposedly sent headcases packing. No sense in giving a head case coming off an injury a huge contract.

3) Keenan Lewis - I like Lewis. He may be the strongest case to replace Smith, but the criticisms of Sean Smith are largely the same as with Lewis. Keenan Lewis had 0 INT's on the season and had a good half of the season and a bad one. Who are you gonna get?

4) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie - DRC is ahead case and not a hard worker. Philbin wants to change the culture? DRC isn't going to help that in ANY way. DRC is awful in run support and was one of the more penalized corners in the league.

5) Chris Houston - I like Chris Houston, but he did just come from a pretty awful secondary, is on the shorter side, has had 3 INTS in 6 years of play, and doesn't seem like an upgrade to Smith to me.

5) Cary Williams - Williams is gonna get overpaid because he just won a Superbowl and probably the best games of his last couple of seasons happened on a big stage. He is a prime candidate to get way more money than his body of work suggests he deserves. Plus he isn't as good as Sean Smith. And he's older.


6) Brent Grimes - I love what Grimes was, but he is coming off of an achilles injury and is 30. He should lose a step from the injury and the age. Not the safest player to invest in.



I could go on, but my point is I don't see much better. I'm open to possibilities. I am NOT defending Smith here, really. What I see is a known commodity, he works hard, he has improved most seasons he's been in the league, he fits the mold of what the team (Coyle) likes in their CB's and he is just 26.

The other option is to draft a CB. I am okay with that. I hope we do. However, most corners take a few years to be good, and its NOT a high percentage position for success. Expecting a rookie CB to start is tricky. If the Dolphins opt to do that, I could be okay with it, but we can't fill all our needs via the draft, and we only have a few top end picks. Also, forcing a "need" choice into the first couple of rounds is a recipe for reaching. I'd be leery of that. To me, the draft seems the way to go for replacing Sean Smith, but its a time consuming way to go, and has mediocre outcome for highly drafted players.

Its too bad Sean Smith and his agent seem so intent on being absurd about their asking price. My sense from Ireland is that he would pay to bring back Smith, but that Smith's side is being unreasonable about their asking price. I can't be mad at Ireland for not paying anywhere near the asking price we are hearing from Smith and his reps. However, I do think we should propose an aggressive offer and I view him as one the better options if we chose to fill the CB position with a free agent.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith is kind of the elephant in the room. I ultimately don't think Miami retains him mainly for the fact that he wants to get PAID. I respect that, but at the same time we have to make a deal that is good for us. Smith is a solid starting CB in the NFL with the potential for more. I would give Smith a four year deal that the team can get out of after two years, and if they keep him his pay significantly increases in year 3/4.

4 years $34 million
Year 1: $6,000,000
Year 2: $7,000,000
Year 3: $10,000,000
Year 4: $11,000,000

Play well and you get your money, play average and you get to try FA in two seasons.
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Judson49


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion that Sean Smith has had enough of the Miami Dolphins dollars already based on the fact he's big, young, has nice combine measurables and plays like a shutdown corner in practice (copyright Omar Kelly).

When I look at the list you've assembled above that Merc what I see is a bunch of guys who probably aren't looking to fleece the franchise for their pot of gold contract based off of years of bang average play. I'll take one of them thanks. I seriously doubt there will be a noticeable drop off in CB play.

Sean Smith and his agent need to visit Planet Earth once in a while and realise that, on occasion, tangible production determines worth.
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SUG


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know FA isn't yielding a whole Lotta options.
Then again a rookie takes 2 yrs to develope.

We could/should make the drafting an elite DE at #12 to help minimize the lack of talent. Personally, I'd let Smith walk.
We might make the Playoffs but it wont be a CB that determines that.
So can the same equation be applied to Smith ???

sug
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SUG


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know FA isn't yielding a whole Lotta options.
Then again a rookie takes 2 yrs to develope.

We could/should make the drafting an elite DE at #12 to help minimize the lack of talent. Personally, I'd let Smith walk.
We might make the Playoffs but it wont be a CB that determines that.
So can the same equation be applied to Smith ???

sug
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to resign him if possible. Wouldn't want to break the bank but he's a good CB and looking at other FA options, I'd say he's in the top 3 of guys I'd want here. I'd be willing to give him a respectable contract personally. After all, we have a ton of cap room. I'd like to spend some of it resigning some of our better FAs - Smith, Starks, Hartline, Clemons... possibly Long (but not to his ridiculous rookie deal, of course).

The thing with Smith is that he's really our only decent CB on the roster. Marshall is okay, and everyone below that is horrid. Rookie CBs don't generally come in their first year and play well, so we'd have a hole in the position if we let Smith walk and don't replace him in FA (and most of the FA options don't look like particularly good options).
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:
I'm of the opinion that Sean Smith has had enough of the Miami Dolphins dollars already based on the fact he's big, young, has nice combine measurables and plays like a shutdown corner in practice (copyright Omar Kelly).

When I look at the list you've assembled above that Merc what I see is a bunch of guys who probably aren't looking to fleece the franchise for their pot of gold contract based off of years of bang average play. I'll take one of them thanks. I seriously doubt there will be a noticeable drop off in CB play.

Sean Smith and his agent need to visit Planet Earth once in a while and realise that, on occasion, tangible production determines worth.


I'm with you on not wanting to pay Smith. I know people in this forum think I have man-love for Smith. I don't. I just don't think he is as bad as many think he is. I also don't think he is ANYWHERE near as valuable as he must think he is, considering how much he claims to want to be paid. I just don't see a guy on the free agent list that is as good, or less issues than Smith. So I guess I would ask, who would try and pick up to replace him?

Maybe I'd go after Grimes. However, he could cost a boat load and that achilles can really slow a guy down. So that scares me. If Grimes can't run, then I'd think about pursuing Lewis, but I think we'll still spend a boat load and not get much of an upgrade, if at all. I guess I just don't see a solution in FA.

If I HAD to, I'd probably let Smith walk and then take two of the much lower priced CB in FA (probably Greg Toler & Captain Munnerlyn, both of whom I believe have some upside) and let them compete for the job. I just fear that both could flop.

Who would you target if Smith continues to demand such absurd money?
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SUG


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:
I'm of the opinion that Sean Smith has had enough of the Miami Dolphins dollars already based on the fact he's big, young, has nice combine measurables and plays like a shutdown corner in practice (copyright Omar Kelly).

When I look at the list you've assembled above that Merc what I see is a bunch of guys who probably aren't looking to fleece the franchise for their pot of gold contract based off of years of bang average play. I'll take one of them thanks. I seriously doubt there will be a noticeable drop off in CB play.

Sean Smith and his agent need to visit Planet Earth once in a while and realise that, on occasion, tangible production determines worth.


I'm with you on not wanting to pay Smith. I know people in this forum think I have man-love for Smith. I don't. I just don't think he is as bad as many think he is. I also don't think he is ANYWHERE near as valuable as he must think he is, considering how much he claims to want to be paid. I just don't see a guy on the free agent list that is as good, or less issues than Smith. So I guess I would ask, who would try and pick up to replace him?

Maybe I'd go after Grimes. However, he could cost a boat load and that achilles can really slow a guy down. So that scares me. If Grimes can't run, then I'd think about pursuing Lewis, but I think we'll still spend a boat load and not get much of an upgrade, if at all. I guess I just don't see a solution in FA.

If I HAD to, I'd probably let Smith walk and then take two of the much lower priced CB in FA (probably Greg Toler & Captain Munnerlyn, both of whom I believe have some upside) and let them compete for the job. I just fear that both could flop.

Who would you target if Smith continues to demand such absurd money?


It seems the decision of whether we resign Smith or not really hinges on whether we have anyone able to step up in his shoes or not.
Bottom line is that we have plenty of cash yo execute the deal.
And drafting a CB does not necsesarilly improve our pass coverage in 2013 so not to mention were forced to burn drft pk so ...

What to do, the devil you know or the devil you don't ...

sug
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SUG


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:
I'm of the opinion that Sean Smith has had enough of the Miami Dolphins dollars already based on the fact he's big, young, has nice combine measurables and plays like a shutdown corner in practice (copyright Omar Kelly).

When I look at the list you've assembled above that Merc what I see is a bunch of guys who probably aren't looking to fleece the franchise for their pot of gold contract based off of years of bang average play. I'll take one of them thanks. I seriously doubt there will be a noticeable drop off in CB play.

Sean Smith and his agent need to visit Planet Earth once in a while and realise that, on occasion, tangible production determines worth.


I'm with you on not wanting to pay Smith. I know people in this forum think I have man-love for Smith. I don't. I just don't think he is as bad as many think he is. I also don't think he is ANYWHERE near as valuable as he must think he is, considering how much he claims to want to be paid. I just don't see a guy on the free agent list that is as good, or less issues than Smith. So I guess I would ask, who would try and pick up to replace him?

Maybe I'd go after Grimes. However, he could cost a boat load and that achilles can really slow a guy down. So that scares me. If Grimes can't run, then I'd think about pursuing Lewis, but I think we'll still spend a boat load and not get much of an upgrade, if at all. I guess I just don't see a solution in FA.

If I HAD to, I'd probably let Smith walk and then take two of the much lower priced CB in FA (probably Greg Toler & Captain Munnerlyn, both of whom I believe have some upside) and let them compete for the job. I just fear that both could flop.

Who would you target if Smith continues to demand such absurd money?


It seems the decision of whether we resign Smith or not really hinges on whether we have anyone able to step up in his shoes or not.
Bottom line is that we have plenty of cash yo execute the deal.
And drafting a CB does not necsesarilly improve our pass coverage in 2013 so not to mention were forced to burn drft pk so ...

What to do, the devil you know or the devil you don't ...

sug
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:

What to do, the devil you know or the devil you don't ...

sug


I think this sums it up. I am not sure Smith is the answer for us. Not at all. I just don't see any other answers out there.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For as much as people in this forum talk down on his game he sure is wanted by alot of good teams in free agency he is at the top of the 49ers list among other teams. Its somewhat confusing to me like are we missing something here? Did we use him wrong or maybe like you said Merc the other options are just that bad. The good news is I read richard Marshall is feeling really good and working out at 100 percent right now so that can help us. Like you said sign a couple bargain guys mummerly,porter type guys with a healthy marshall and a draft pick we are still much better off then what e had for most of year with Smith and Carrol starting and wilson . Its still a nice upgrade to that
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Judson49


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
SUG wrote:

What to do, the devil you know or the devil you don't ...

sug


I think this sums it up. I am not sure Smith is the answer for us. Not at all. I just don't see any other answers out there.


I agree and I think that is one of the main problems for me - that perhaps the only real viable reason to sign him is we know what we're going get (in my opinion that's unspectacular, largely pointless CB play - something we could undoubtedly get cheaper elsewhere).

I don't want to see players like Smith rewarded with a bumper new deal just because they're local. Sean Smith is precisely the type of player that has the Dolphins stuck in this irrelevant limbo. He's a 2nd round pick whose rookie contract has expired following a collection of forgettable, anonymous performances.

He's been given ample opportunity to step up and be a difference maker and he's done nothing. He's average. Bland. Dull. If he played for any of the other 31 teams he'd be a nobody to us. If we pursued him as a FA we'd be saying "Why are we considering paying $6-7m to that guy that makes no plays, gives up TD's on 4th & 10 and gets toasted by Chaz Shillens?". If the Niners want him, good for them, pay him the big money he hasn't earned. I just hope the Dolphins don't.

As for who I'd want instead? I don't know to be honest Merc, I'll put some thought into it & try & come up with someone , but you've put together a good list of players who I doubt are looking for "Sean Smith money". I'd say replacing him with a cheaper & comparatively adequate player would be easy enough. Point is, in my opinion, we won't miss Sean Smith.
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I as the Dolphins General Manager let Sean Smith walk. Thats right I had him in my mock was overjoyed when the Dolphins selected him.

Unfortunately his pro career to date has not performed to that of an elite or even very good cornerback in the NFL. I can rate his performance overall as steady, but it has had very few peaks and far too many valleys.

Sure he is fast, has nice height but he doesn't bring the whole package as a cb. There is no frustration on the wide receivers part when they line up against him. I had high hopes for him this past year and he started out relatively well, then spiraled down quickly.

So let the Eagles, 49'ers or whatever suitor out there overpay. The smart move is to strenghten the pass rush, look at the linebackers with Burnett and Dansby now on the wrong side of 30 and probably draft a cornerback early.

As far as free agents there may be a stop gap out there that will come much cheaper than Sean Smith. Besides if we can improve with the pass rush with our front seven even an average group in the secondary will look very good.

In summation, bye bye Sean, call your grandmother.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is who I would look at if I were the Dolphins and I had to replace Sean Smith via Free Agency:


Derek Cox
Greg Toler
Captain Munnerlyn
Bradley Fletcher
PacMan Jones


I don't see any of these guys as better than Sean Smith, but I see them as possible cheaper answers. All of them, in my opinion, will yield more yardage to opposing offenses that Sean Smith will. What I would hope for is that the difference is no where near as great as the cost will be to keep Smith.

Listening to Ireland talk, I think he is fairly certain that we will lose Sean Smith. I'd prefer not to have to spend our first round pick on a CB to replace him.
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Mpjjk89


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
I as the Dolphins General Manager let Sean Smith walk. Thats right I had him in my mock was overjoyed when the Dolphins selected him.

Unfortunately his pro career to date has not performed to that of an elite or even very good cornerback in the NFL. I can rate his performance overall as steady, but it has had very few peaks and far too many valleys.

Sure he is fast, has nice height but he doesn't bring the whole package as a cb. There is no frustration on the wide receivers part when they line up against him. I had high hopes for him this past year and he started out relatively well, then spiraled down quickly.

So let the Eagles, 49'ers or whatever suitor out there overpay. The smart move is to strenghten the pass rush, look at the linebackers with Burnett and Dansby now on the wrong side of 30 and probably draft a cornerback early.

As far as free agents there may be a stop gap out there that will come much cheaper than Sean Smith. Besides if we can improve with the pass rush with our front seven even an average group in the secondary will look very good.

In summation, bye bye Sean, call your grandmother.

That's what irks me, there's absolutely no reason why Smith should get PAID. He has done decent, if that, during his tenure in Miami.
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