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Can we please trade down...?
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War Room Slayer


Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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Location: Peyton Manning is perfect!...for me to POOP ON
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Can we please trade down...? Reply with quote

We got "the spot" that most teams are probably most interested in.

I hope Mac can prove his worth by pulling off the trade that drops us to 6-10 and scoop up a 2nd rounder....even if it's a 2014 second rounder.

Don't recall the trade value calculations...but hopeful a 2nd rd. can be had.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would teams be most interested in the 3rd? The top talents have taken a battering at this combine. At this stage only players worth trading up for are Fisher and Joeckel.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prove his worth? McKenzie can do that by playing the FA game well and hitting on his draft picks.

Trading down in a bad draft of top end talent doesn't prove anything. You have to have a trade partner.
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War Room Slayer


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Prove his worth? McKenzie can do that by playing the FA game well and hitting on his draft picks.

Trading down in a bad draft of top end talent doesn't prove anything. You have to have a trade partner.


Yeah, prove his worth. Hard to play the FA game just yet. He'll be able to do that a year or so from now while we clear out the cap to a workable number.

As GM I expect some shuffling on his part. No one wants #1 this year, but #3 has a lot of studs in the barn. Naturally you need a trade partner, that pretty much defines "trade", and I expect someone wants that 3 spot.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll ask this question. With no blue chip prospects in this class, the value of trading down is much less. More teams will want to trade down, than up. So the fortune favors the team wanting to move up.

So let's say the Cardinals (7), Bills (Cool or Jets (9) want to make a move up. They offer to swap 1sts and throw in a their 3rd round pick. Do you make the trade?

It's not the 'kings ransom' fans want. It doesn't meet the redundant trade value chart, but there is VALUE for that trade for the Raiders. Do you make it.

IMO, you do. A team with need at every position. You drop to 7-9 w/ a shot at drafting one of the DTs/DEs/OLBs. You add an additional 3rd that could be used to draft much needed RT/OG or CB help.

But most will say it's not enough value. But in a bad top end class, but deep overall class it's good value IMO.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some NFL organization will fall in love with someone. Happens every year.
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
I'll ask this question. With no blue chip prospects in this class, the value of trading down is much less. More teams will want to trade down, than up. So the fortune favors the team wanting to move up.

So let's say the Cardinals (7), Bills (Cool or Jets (9) want to make a move up. They offer to swap 1sts and throw in a their 3rd round pick. Do you make the trade?

It's not the 'kings ransom' fans want. It doesn't meet the redundant trade value chart, but there is VALUE for that trade for the Raiders. Do you make it.

IMO, you do. A team with need at every position. You drop to 7-9 w/ a shot at drafting one of the DTs/DEs/OLBs. You add an additional 3rd that could be used to draft much needed RT/OG or CB help.

But most will say it's not enough value. But in a bad top end class, but deep overall class it's good value IMO.


If some team is interested in trading up it means they see value there. There's no reason to give them a discount because the class is perceived weak at the top since they apparently found something of interest there.

The scenario you laid out is one where we'd be desperate for a trade down and willing to give up our high pick for cheap change. Why would we be desperate? Would adding a 3rd make us a much better team now or in the future?
If you want the pick and your target, you gotta pay.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:

If some team is interested in trading up it means they see value there. There's no reason to give them a discount because the class is perceived weak at the top since they apparently found something of interest there.


Yes, and they say that value is ONLY worth their 3rd round pick. If you want more, we are happy taken what falls to us. Obviously there is value, but the question is how much. There isn't 'kings ransom' value a blue chip prospect would command.

oakdb36 wrote:
The scenario you laid out is one where we'd be desperate for a trade down and willing to give up our high pick for cheap change. Why would we be desperate? Would adding a 3rd make us a much better team now or in the future?
If you want the pick and your target, you gotta pay.


And you scenario is exactly my point. Fans think you can just trade down and collect multiple picks. But that value isn't there. But there might be enough value to add a 3rd round pick.

Seeing as there are no blue chip prospect it's desperate to accept the fact you can get a similar player at 7-9 as you can at 3 (because there is little difference in talent) and add more talent to a poor roster? Explain that.

Hypothetical:

Trade #3 to Arizona for #7 and #69.

Raiders draft:

#7 - Best DT/DE/OLB
#66 - Best RT/OG/CB/MLB
#69 - Best RT/OG/CB/MLB

So you fix 3 positions. You traded #3, landed a similar prospect at #7 and added talent to another need position early in round 3.

If you like Floyd at 3, is Richardson and the top CB/MLB at #69 desperate? No, it's getting a similar player and additional value in the 3rd round. It's smart in a deep class.

But again.... blah, blah, kings ransom or Reggie's fired despite there isn't a player worth it.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What i'm saying is we are the seller but we don't have to sell at all costs. What's the issue with staying put and making our selection? There's none.
On the other hand if someone wants to buy, they won't come knocking just to see if they can get a fair price from us, they will if they have a player they want. From that point on, the leverage is ours. So the question is how much do they want that player.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with BP on the trade down, we get an additional pick where we trade down to, thats awesome!

You aren't going to get the RG3 trade every year but dropping three spots and maybe getting the guy you want, PLUS a second (which we really need) that is a win if ever I saw one.

Personally I believe we trade down.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:

If some team is interested in trading up it means they see value there. There's no reason to give them a discount because the class is perceived weak at the top since they apparently found something of interest there.


Yes, and they say that value is ONLY worth their 3rd round pick. If you want more, we are happy taken what falls to us. Obviously there is value, but the question is how much. There isn't 'kings ransom' value a blue chip prospect would command.

oakdb36 wrote:
The scenario you laid out is one where we'd be desperate for a trade down and willing to give up our high pick for cheap change. Why would we be desperate? Would adding a 3rd make us a much better team now or in the future?
If you want the pick and your target, you gotta pay.


And you scenario is exactly my point. Fans think you can just trade down and collect multiple picks. But that value isn't there. But there might be enough value to add a 3rd round pick.

Seeing as there are no blue chip prospect it's desperate to accept the fact you can get a similar player at 7-9 as you can at 3 (because there is little difference in talent) and add more talent to a poor roster? Explain that.

Hypothetical:

Trade #3 to Arizona for #7 and #69.

Raiders draft:

#7 - Best DT/DE/OLB
#66 - Best RT/OG/CB/MLB
#69 - Best RT/OG/CB/MLB

So you fix 3 positions. You traded #3, landed a similar prospect at #7 and added talent to another need position early in round 3.

If you like Floyd at 3, is Richardson and the top CB/MLB at #69 desperate? No, it's getting a similar player and additional value in the 3rd round. It's smart in a deep class.

But again.... blah, blah, kings ransom or Reggie's fired despite there isn't a player worth it.
Its easy to say there are no blue chip players, but as someone else pointed out teams fall in love with players wether we think there blue chip or not and will make a move if they really want them.
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chiefs and Jags are in the premium positions to trade down. Whoever KC doesn't take, the Jags can dangle in front of the rest of the league. At 3, I fear we're pretty much stuck.
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
I agree with BP on the trade down, we get an additional pick where we trade down to, thats awesome!

You aren't going to get the RG3 trade every year but dropping three spots and maybe getting the guy you want, PLUS a second (which we really need) that is a win if ever I saw one.

Personally I believe we trade down.

As do I. But I think realistically even in down year we can swap 1sts and a get a 2nd.

Also with SF possibly getting a 2nd or high 3rd for A. Smith they maybe even more inclined that before to move up. They have a ton of picks already and not enough roster spots. Moving up to get the guy they want. So you could probably turn 1 pick into 3 with them and with the Smith trade they really dont lose much and get to pick the guy they want.

Here are the picks they have already and as I said they will be getting at least another 3rd and possibly a 2nd. If it is KC I would assume its their 3rd since it is basically a 2nd.

1.31, 2.29, 3.12 (from CAR), 3.31, 4.31, 5.24 (from IND), 5.31, 6.12 (from MIA), 6.31, 7.21 (from CIN), 7.31
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3 MILE LYLE


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this draft the only way I see us trading down is if someone falls in love with geno and he's sitting there at 3. If we can move down to about 5-14 and pick up an extra 3 I'd do it in a heartbeat. One of the big names will still be there and it'll be much better on our cap. Not one bluechip in this draft, I mean this is just our luck right?
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G


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 3297
Location: Hollywierd
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BP It would depend on who the team is targeting. (Raiders)
If we really want Floyd over Star then take the 3rd. even a 2nd is in their favor. If Reggie sees something in Floyd that he doesn't with those who should go before him, then TAKE THE 3RD!!! The extra player is worth it on our teams depth chart. Us fans will moan the value or the pick, but if holding 3 means Star or 7 Floyd and a 3rd then Reggie's eval will reflect that choice in a few years. Hope it pans out. Smile
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