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Patriots to place QB Ryan Mallett on trade block
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 24858
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

m haynes wrote:
Someone want to help me out. I don't understand the Bucs trade rumors. Did I miss something. They have a QB.


They have a below average QB on the last year of his contract. Makes sense that they'd explore other options.
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TreeFiddy350


Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
TreeFiddy350 wrote:
Hmm Mallet to the Bucs for Benn and a draft pick would be nice. I think they also have a second round pick, unlike the Browns. Doubt we could get Benn and a second though.


Benn has no (or very very little) trade value. He'd essentially be a throw in because chances are he's getting cut eventually anyway.

If they can get a 2nd for Mallett, they can get a 2nd + Benn


I would take Tampa's 3rd and Benn for Mallett. That's fair value IMO


That's more of what I was thinking. Mallet is barely worth a second, let alone a second and a player. Sure can hope we get a second and Benn though.
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1708
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
m haynes wrote:
Someone want to help me out. I don't understand the Bucs trade rumors. Did I miss something. They have a QB.


They have a below average QB on the last year of his contract. Makes sense that they'd explore other options.


Freeman has really regressed from 2010. He has been very turnover prone the last couple of seasons.
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BillsGuy82


Joined: 16 Jan 2007
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Location: Niagara Falls
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything new on this subject ? Its looking more like we won't get Geno unless we move up , so other than Manuel at 41 I'd give the pick up for Mallett.
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BP


Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 2323
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BillsGuy82 wrote:
Anything new on this subject ? Its looking more like we won't get Geno unless we move up , so other than Manuel at 41 I'd give the pick up for Mallett.
first step is admitting you have a problem
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
m haynes wrote:
Someone want to help me out. I don't understand the Bucs trade rumors. Did I miss something. They have a QB.


They have a below average QB on the last year of his contract. Makes sense that they'd explore other options.

Below average? Have you seen the average NFL quarterback? I'm not saying Freeman is good, but I'd definitely take him over at least a third of the guys that started meaningful games in the league last year, and probably close to half of them.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
m haynes wrote:
Someone want to help me out. I don't understand the Bucs trade rumors. Did I miss something. They have a QB.


They have a below average QB on the last year of his contract. Makes sense that they'd explore other options.

Below average? Have you seen the average NFL quarterback? I'm not saying Freeman is good, but I'd definitely take him over at least a third of the guys that started meaningful games in the league last year, and probably close to half of them.


In 2012, Freeman was 29th for completion % of QB's with 250+ attempts. The only guys worse were Sanchez, Luck and Henne. He was 19th in passer rating and 25th in INT %.

In 2011, he was 8th in completion % but his 74.6 passer rating was tied for 26th (with Colt McCoy) and only better than Tebow, Ponder, Grossman, Bradford, Skelton, Painter and Gabbert (i.e. absolute trash minus Bradford). His INT% was 5th worst and threw 22 INT's to 16 TDs.

In 2009, his rookie year (so it's fair to give him something of a pass) he was absolutely awful.

I will grant you that he might have more upside than some of the guys who are statistically better, but he's started 56 games and has been pretty bad or mediocre in most of them.

Of the QB's with 200+ attempts last year, I'd take these guys over him:

Definitely (16): Brady, Brees, Rodgers, P.Manning, Griffin III, E.Manning, Roethlisberger, Wilson, Schaub, Romo, Flacco, Newton, Ryan, Luck, Kaepernick, Smith

So right there, that's half the QB's in the league - making Freeman "below average" in a literal sense. I'd also take:

Dalton, Bradford, Rivers, Stafford, Tannehill - though I can see the arguments against those guys.

I'd put Freeman on par with Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Cutler, Vick - guys who are capable of having good games but you can't trust them and will probably end up with bad numbers and as a liability for the team.

I'd say he's better than: Sanchez, Ponder/Cassel, Locker, Weeden, Henne/Gabbert, Foles, Hoyer/Kolb/Skelton. Even then, I think it's a possibility that Locker and maybe (less likely) Ponder ends up being better going forward.

So yeah, I'll stick to "below average" both in terms of where I expect him to end up statistically, and in terms of skills going forward. I don't think he's going to get much better and he's working with a better offensive group than some of the worse QB's. If he ends up as a top 15 QB, it will be because the older guys have slipped and this year's crop of rookie QB's will be abysmal. Of the 32 guys who will start opening day, he's probably the 22nd or 23rd guy I'd take.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed you omitted 2010. Also, putting him behind 16 guys for sure doesn't make him below average, it makes him below the median (if you're only counting the 32 opening day starters - I'm counting every QB who got significant snaps). He's right in that group that I'd rank from about 17-25, which to me, is an average QB. I think we just have a disagreement on terminology, because your list of guys and mine are about the same.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
I noticed you omitted 2010. Also, putting him behind 16 guys for sure doesn't make him below average, it makes him below the median (if you're only counting the 32 opening day starters - I'm counting every QB who got significant snaps). He's right in that group that I'd rank from about 17-25, which to me, is an average QB. I think we just have a disagreement on terminology, because your list of guys and mine are about the same.


The 25th best QB in a league where there are 32 starters and fewer than 5 high quality backups is pretty below average in my book.

As for his 2010 season, he performed extremely well - it's the only reason to think he isn't a bottom 5 QB in the league above only the absolute worst guys.

The problem I have is that he's been awful or decidedly below average in every other season with 53 TDs to 57 INTs with a 57.8 completion %. Over a 41 game sample, that's pretty dreadful. He's still young and could improve, but if he couldn't do it with Vincent Jackson and Doug Martin joining his offense, I don't know why it should be expected that in his 5th year he's going to blossom into a good QB.

His upside IMO for the rest of his career is Jay Cutler - a little above/below average most years with rating, comp % but will make too many bad decisions and throw too many INT's to ever be a long-term answer. I just don't envision too many scenarios where he's definitively a top 15-20 QB thus my terming him "below average" and suggesting Mallett would be an upgrade.

If you were Tampa Bay and Freeman puts up 57%, 20 TD/15 INT and a rating of 80.0 - do you really want to re-sign him? Probably not. I think it would make sense for them to investigate a young backup.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think where Freeman ranks is as important as the numerous reports that Schiano isn't really a fan of him or his work ethic. I could definitely see them trading Freeman to some team that okay with being mediocre (the Jets come to mind) and then trade for Mallett with the hope that he can get closer to his ceiling than Freeman has gotten to his.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
I don't think where Freeman ranks is as important as the numerous reports that Schiano isn't really a fan of him or his work ethic. I could definitely see them trading Freeman to some team that okay with being mediocre (the Jets come to mind) and then trade for Mallett with the hope that he can get closer to his ceiling than Freeman has gotten to his.


Other than the Jets, Raiders and the Cardinals - franchises who seem to be totally fine with mediocre-to-bad QB's every year - I don't see too many teams who would want to trade for him as a starter. Maybe the Browns too, though I think their new regime is going to be too smart for that.
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Sciz wrote:
I don't think where Freeman ranks is as important as the numerous reports that Schiano isn't really a fan of him or his work ethic. I could definitely see them trading Freeman to some team that okay with being mediocre (the Jets come to mind) and then trade for Mallett with the hope that he can get closer to his ceiling than Freeman has gotten to his.


Other than the Jets, Raiders and the Cardinals - franchises who seem to be totally fine with mediocre-to-bad QB's every year - I don't see too many teams who would want to trade for him as a starter. Maybe the Browns too, though I think their new regime is going to be too smart for that.


Do you see anyone in this draft class who is remarkably better than Mallet though? Geno Smith, MAYBE, and he might go top 10 simply because this QB class is terrible. Many GMs cannot afford to wait for a year or two for a QB to come along. A GM fearing for his job might trade for a Ryan Mallet hoping he can bring some success to the franchise and save his job.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freeman had an epic 6-8 game streak this season, and is amazing in the 4th. They will keep him at least one more season, because if he takes 'the next step', he will border on top 5 status for that season.
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Naq


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa, all this disrespect that Freeman is getting
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Iron_man


Joined: 01 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote "53 TDs to 57 INTs with a 57.8 completion %. Over a 41 game sample, that's pretty dreadful."

Well if you don't include his best season, yeah it's pretty dreadful.

Career Stats: 57GS 1,101CMP 1,873ATT 58.8CMP% 12,963YDS 6.92AVG 78TDs 95LNG 63INT 24FUM 79.8RAT

All the Bucs really have to do is figure out what caused his good numbers in 2010. I haven't really watch the bucs play/kept up with their rooster, but my guess would be a change in the offensive line caused him to decline.
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