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Peter King if you want Milliner move to #4
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFan630 wrote:
Yeah Milliner definitely put himself back in to the conversation running that 40 time.

At this point I feel pretty confident in narrowing down the Lions pick to 5 guys:

- Joeckel
- Fisher
- Milliner
- Ansah
- Warmack
FIFY
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1King


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Rhodes is special because he is tall, large, fast, long, and skilled in man coverage


Those descriptors all fit Milliner.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
Quote:
Rhodes is special because he is tall, large, fast, long, and skilled in man coverage


Those descriptors all fit Milliner.
Rhodes beats him in everything though, expect for the 40, and on tape, Rhodes is defintely faster.
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TheROARisBACK


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
1King wrote:
Quote:
Rhodes is special because he is tall, large, fast, long, and skilled in man coverage


Those descriptors all fit Milliner.
Rhodes beats him in everything though, expect for the 40, and on tape, Rhodes is defintely faster.


Neutral

Rhodes isn't definately faster, if faster at all. Especially not on tape.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
YlionsY wrote:
Wouldn't mind us taking him. Wouldn't hate it but wouldn't love it. I don't see him being elite.
And that right there is his downfall. He doesn't do anything to seperate himself from any of the other top CB's. He will probably be good, but not special. You can groom CB's to be good, but you don't draft them top 10 to be good, you draft them top 10 to be great, you draft them top 10 to be a difference maker, not just good.

Rhodes is special because he is tall, large, fast, long, and skilled in man coverage. He also presses great. Banks is also tall, very very long, quick and shifty, reads the QB well, reads routes well, and reacts to the throw just as fast as the WR, if not faster. They both also have good footwork, turn their hips well, stay low (Rhodes can get a litte sloppy at times, but always fixes the problem), and they both knock the ball out of the WR's hands well (Rhodes moreso than Banks).


I agree with this.

I actually prefer Banks over any of the other corners in this draft but there are a number that I believe would be satisfactory.

I really don't see a significant enough difference in ability between the first and second round corners to warrant selecting one in the first.

There's a number of players I like at the five spot and at least one of them will be available.

I still like the idea of trading down but I just don't see that as a likely scenario in this draft. I could see a bunch of action in the second round where teams are trying to move up.

I think our chances of trading down might actually be a bit better than usual. Not good, but still...

If you have ever took a good look at the TVC, #5 is about where the value begins to be reasonable. Tack on the rookie salary cap and the fact the #1 QB is almost universally considered a bad pick too early. QB hungry teams may actually look at #5 as attractive.

Once again, this is still not to say it is likely, just possibly more likely than we usually believe.


You might be right. I agree the rookie cap removes salary fears.

I guess if a team is close enough to the Lions they might flip a second to move up four or five spots. The picture might be clearer once free agency and any trades are completed.
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Lionsden5555


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?

I still can't watch any tape, drills, or anything that makes me put Millner above Rhodes, except Millner is in the SEC. I hate using that as the only reason but I understand the level of comp. FSU played some jokes of teams this year but I can't blame Rhodes for that.

This might sound crazy to everyone but I wouldn't be mad at Rhodes with a #5 pick Shocked Alright I said it, I just don't see the big disparity between the two players.

Desmond Trufant is moving up quick too and he will most certainly be gone by our 2nd rounder
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TheROARisBACK


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.
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bigc421


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.


I agree. Millner shiftyness and change of direction was always more in question than his straight line speed imo. People are really underselling the fact that he cant catch as well. How are you gonna take a corner top5 if he cant make plays? All corners get beat from time to time but the best ones balance it out by making the qb pay for looking there way 1to many times. Not that it was a good plan but i actually think this is why nd showed no fear of going right at him, they didnt see any downside worse than an incomplete pass
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TheROARisBACK


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.


Watch him he primarily plays the boundary. All three years he rarely played inside and when he did he didn't look too good. That's where he gave up the most. Not terrible, just not a good spot. Matching up with one or two good prospects with specific skill sets doesn't tell you how he played them in coverage. Also who are these speedsters Dee struggled with? You seem to mention that a lot.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheROARisBACK wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.


Watch him he primarily plays the boundary. All three years he rarely played inside and when he did he didn't look too good. That's where he gave up the most. Not terrible, just not a good spot. Matching up with one or two good prospects with specific skill sets doesn't tell you how he played them in coverage. Also who are these speedsters Dee struggled with? You seem to mention that a lot.
not sure i follow. you want Rhodes to be able to play the slot? if so why would you want your 1st rd pick in the slot? And its not just one or two prospect either he had a career not one season like Dee with no potentials of being 1st rd picks..watch the LSU game if he didnt win in the begining he wasnt keeping up. not that he allowed receptions but this is the nfl were teams will take advantage of things like that. Rhodes resume is far greater than Dee no debate imo
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TheROARisBACK


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.


Watch him he primarily plays the boundary. All three years he rarely played inside and when he did he didn't look too good. That's where he gave up the most. Not terrible, just not a good spot. Matching up with one or two good prospects with specific skill sets doesn't tell you how he played them in coverage. Also who are these speedsters Dee struggled with? You seem to mention that a lot.
not sure i follow. you want Rhodes to be able to play the slot? if so why would you want your 1st rd pick in the slot? And its not just one or two prospect either he had a career not one season like Dee with no potentials of being 1st rd picks..watch the LSU game if he didnt win in the begining he wasnt keeping up. not that he allowed receptions but this is the nfl were teams will take advantage of things like that. Rhodes resume is far greater than Dee no debate imo


The original question asked was talking about being comfortable with taking Rhodes high, around 5, compared to Milliner. I feel when taking a corner that high they should be versatile and able to move around to play the opposing teams best W/O who might play outside and can kick it inside and run multiple routes as well. That's a big question with Rhodes IMO. Your not wasting a pick on the slot, you want your guy to be able to match-up wherever the opposing teams best receiver lines up so having range in that area and being able to cover it would be nice considering how high the pick is.

I wasn't necessarily saying Rhodes faced no one but those two names, just using those names to tell how just because he faced receivers with varying skill-sets (Floyd, being big and considered physical where-as Broyles is a precise route-runner with great ability to find holes in zone schemes and work out the slot) doesn't tell how he covered them.

Also, prior to tearing his ACL Justin Hunter was talked about highly, even now after it. As well as Cordarrelle Patterson, and Da'Rick Rodgers prior to the suspension. He effectively covered "speedster" Joe Adams from Arkansas. He also had a big game against receiving TE Tyler Eifert, showcasing his ability to play these bigger, receiving TE's that are thought to be the new wave in the league. All are highly touted prospects sans Adams. He's also played other good receivers. I never understood why you brought his competition up.

You bring up the LSU game, meh, it wasn't great - mostly his tackling from what I recall. That's one game though. I definately can spot those problems in all the prospects this year and in years past.

And I disagree about his resume being far greater...How did you come to that conclusion? Dee contributed more in different facets, being on ST (3 years) as a gunner and having a small stint returning. Also recorded a blocked kick. Only thing that really favors Rhodes as far as resume is more starts.
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Rockcity


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheROARisBACK wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
TheROARisBACK wrote:
Lionsden5555 wrote:
After watching Millner and Rhodes run it just confirms what all the tape shows. They are both fast enough, physical, and have prototypical size for the position. Would I be OK with taking Millner at #5, yeah but at the same time if you aren't comfortable taking Rhodes at 5, then why Millner?


Scheme versatility.

That's my biggest reason, there are concerns Rhodes would be limited to, but be a very good, boundary corner at the next level.
idk how you can say that. Rhodes has manned up on alot of good wrs..from fast shifty guys from Broyles to bigger guys Floyd. whats Dee"s done?? Hes had nothing but perfect timing as far as competition goes.. imo Dee didnt fair well when ask to guard the small shifty guys with speed. i cant see either why has been talked top 5, the tape dont fit the spot.


Watch him he primarily plays the boundary. All three years he rarely played inside and when he did he didn't look too good. That's where he gave up the most. Not terrible, just not a good spot. Matching up with one or two good prospects with specific skill sets doesn't tell you how he played them in coverage. Also who are these speedsters Dee struggled with? You seem to mention that a lot.
not sure i follow. you want Rhodes to be able to play the slot? if so why would you want your 1st rd pick in the slot? And its not just one or two prospect either he had a career not one season like Dee with no potentials of being 1st rd picks..watch the LSU game if he didnt win in the begining he wasnt keeping up. not that he allowed receptions but this is the nfl were teams will take advantage of things like that. Rhodes resume is far greater than Dee no debate imo


The original question asked was talking about being comfortable with taking Rhodes high, around 5, compared to Milliner. I feel when taking a corner that high they should be versatile and able to move around to play the opposing teams best W/O who might play outside and can kick it inside and run multiple routes as well. That's a big question with Rhodes IMO. Your not wasting a pick on the slot, you want your guy to be able to match-up wherever the opposing teams best receiver lines up so having range in that area and being able to cover it would be nice considering how high the pick is.

I wasn't necessarily saying Rhodes faced no one but those two names, just using those names to tell how just because he faced receivers with varying skill-sets (Floyd, being big and considered physical where-as Broyles is a precise route-runner with great ability to find holes in zone schemes and work out the slot) doesn't tell how he covered them.

Also, prior to tearing his ACL Justin Hunter was talked about highly, even now after it. As well as Cordarrelle Patterson, and Da'Rick Rodgers prior to the suspension. He effectively covered "speedster" Joe Adams from Arkansas. He also had a big game against receiving TE Tyler Eifert, showcasing his ability to play these bigger, receiving TE's that are thought to be the new wave in the league. All are highly touted prospects sans Adams. He's also played other good receivers. I never understood why you brought his competition up.

You always bring up the LSU game, meh, it wasn't great - mostly his tackling from what I recall. That's one game though. I definately can spot those problems in all the prospects this year and in years past.

And I disagree about his resume being far greater...How did you come to that conclusion? Dee contributed more in different facets, being on ST (3 years) as a gunner and having a small stint returning. Also recorded a blocked kick. Only thing that really favors Rhodes as far as resume is more starts, even with his overall career stats aren't better than Milliners.
resume was about more who they have matched up against. it also goes beyond the LSU game i just thought that would give you an idea what i was getting at. Can Milliner be good sure. Can Rhodes sure. There isnt much difference there imo. Its crazy to call one a top 5 and not the other imo. With all the factors i just see Rhodes being the better pro. I also have another rated higher than Dee. i cant wrap my head around the top 5 talk..top 5 cbs dont happen all that often i dont see what makes him so special. Why i wish they would bring pros to the combines to see how these guys would fare.. He doesnt have enough to tell me hes some shut down cb...
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LION KING


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would trade down get extra 2nd round pick draft Trufant in the move down the difference between DeMarcus Milliner and Trufant isn't much and I would rather have extra picks in this deep draft of Dbs.

I really want us to rebuild our back end this draft!
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LionsFan630


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
LionsFan630 wrote:
Yeah Milliner definitely put himself back in to the conversation running that 40 time.

At this point I feel pretty confident in narrowing down the Lions pick to 5 guys:

- Joeckel
- Fisher
- Milliner
- Ansah
- Warmack
FIFY


Just can't see a OG going that high. DeCastro was hyped as the next Hutchinson and he fell past 20. I think Warmack is probably looking at the 8-15 range when all is said and done.
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