Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

The Cap numbers tell an interesting story
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11440
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: The Cap numbers tell an interesting story Reply with quote

We are all familiar with the difficulties of the Mara imposed penalty, I just we'd take a look at what that means for this free agency period.

THE WINNERS

Santana Moss
-- One year remaining on a three year deal.

Release fee = $2.167 MM
Cap Space created = $4.5 MM

If given an extension of two years, the team could create $2.76MM in cap space, or they release him. The team cannot keep him at his current salary.

Adam Carriker
-- Signed an extension last year and his salary does not bump up until next year.

Release fee = N/A
Cap Space created = $2.950 MM

My personal opinion on Carriker is that he must be kept, particularly at such a low cost. Bowen had a strong start and a poor finish, and it took a long time for Jarvis to pick up his level play. Perhaps they convert some of his salary into a signing bonus to bring down his cap hit by a ~ $1MM.

Josh Wilson
- Entering the last year of a three year deal.

Release Fee = $1.433 MM
Cap Space created = $3.9MM

I would anticipate that Josh Wilson will be hesitant to sign an extension and give the team a deal. Quite simply, average corners get ridiculous contracts in free agency. I expect the team to approach him regarding a contract extension to lower his cap number.

DeAngelo Hall
Two years remaining.

Release fee = 300k
Cap Space created = $8MM

Let's say that DeAngelo Hall is extended rather than cut, it could mean a savings of 4-6MM against the cap. It's not an ideal situation whatsoever, however the team may be left with little choice.

Options: The team could restructure Chester and Bowen, however there would be long-term difficulties added.

London Fletcher
- Signed to a five year deal last season.

Release fee = $2.8MM
Cap Space created = $3.4 MM

There is a team option to void his contract after the 2013 season, and I am not sure if the Redskins can convert some of his salary and still maintain the voidable year in 2013.

THE LOSERS

If the team restructures the players above, minus Fletcher, Bowen and Chester, we could be looking at 12-14MM dollars extra for this seasons cap, which would bring the team 7-8MM under the cap. Somehow that needs to be enough for numerous draft selections, and re-signing/tendering most of the following players.

Fred Davis
Kory Lichtensteiger
Lorenzo Alexander
Logan Paulsen
Chris Baker
Darrel Young
Nick Sundberg

Brian Orakpo --> For every restructuring the Redskins make, the more difficult it will be to get Orakpo under contract NEXT season.

------------------------------------

To make a boring story shorter, what this means is that the Redskins will likely be in cap difficulty for the foreseeable future.
- They will have dead money from Jammal Brown next year.
- They will have dead money next year from London Fletcher retiring.
- They will need to hold onto players like Santana Moss, Stephen Bowen and Chris Chester longer than they anticipated.

All of this means that the team will have difficulty re-signing their own, ie. Brian Orakpo, Ryan Kerrigan, Trent Williams, Robert Griffin.

The unfortunate reality in all of this is the importance of having a multitude of selections in the draft each year because Trent Williams, Brian Orakpo and Robert Griffin will take up 25% of the cap in future years. The reality is that the Mara penalty has made it more difficult to field a competitive team two to four years from now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8232
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But the Redskins will have $18 million in cap returning next season when the cap penalty is gone. Also the cap might go up slightly. Not sure what your point is?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 4052
Location: Richmond, Va
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I trust Allen and capologist to work things out for us.. Also, too many millionaires do not a great team make ( necessarily ) (See The Eagles DreamTeam )
Keep building thru the draft and keep players that have that incentive in front of them--Playing for the next contract . I read we've had 21 draft choices play in games over the last two years !
Orakpo-- I'm not concerned.. We won the Division without his help--YES, I want him but if we don't keep him so be it.
RG 3 is under contract for what --4 More years... He'll have 40 y o knees by them possibly -- so not gonna fret that either..
AND like MKNIGHT 82 said -- we're outta capHell next year. !
Also ,,another year without having to pay a huge salary to a No. 1 pick !!

We're on the rise..!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SeanTayorsaPIMP


Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 3598
Location: Boston, Ma
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
But the Redskins will have $18 million in cap returning next season when the cap penalty is gone.


These were my thoughts exactly. If it wasn't for the cap penalty, we'd be 12 million UNDER the cap. I think Bruce Allen has done a great job of shredding the bad contracts. Now, I'm don't totally understand what "dead money" is but even with all that dead money, we should be in pretty decent shape next offseason, right?
_________________



mike23md on the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 4052
Location: Richmond, Va
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SeanTayorsaPIMP wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
But the Redskins will have $18 million in cap returning next season when the cap penalty is gone.


These were my thoughts exactly. If it wasn't for the cap penalty, we'd be 12 million UNDER the cap. I think Bruce Allen has done a great job of shredding the bad contracts. Now, I'm don't totally understand what "dead money" is but even with all that dead money, we should be in pretty decent shape next offseason, right?


Dead money --is simply money owed to a player under his contract but he's no longer on the team..Injury, cut, traded etc. Probably an OVER simplification but ,,,basically that's it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11440
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you restructure contracts this year, you are pushing money into future years...money which is guaranteed to count against the cap even if that player is released. There will be a significant amount of contracts restructured this season, which means whatever money they save this season will have to be added to the cap in 2014 and 2015

When next year rolls around, they will already have part of Jammal Brown's contract as dead money (assuming a June 1st cut), 3.3MM from Josh Morgan, and 2.1MM from London Fletcher (assuming he is not restructured this offseason). Right there you lose $6-7MM of that $18MM difference.

When you look at Orakpo's cap hit this season, it is $3.51MM. We can count on his cap hit in 2014 to be triple that, depending on the distribution of money during the life of his contract. Oh, and let's not forget that Perry Riley will need to be re-signed to anywhere between $3-6MM AAV, and Aldrick Robinson's contract is up, as is Nick Sundberg's and Darrel Young. All told, that will take up the remaining 18MM.


Fast forward another year, and you have Kerrigan that will need to be re-signed, if not in 2014 - same goes for Jarvis Jenkins. That difference will be $5-6MM more per annum than Kerrigan's current 2014 cap hit, Jarvis might be $3-4MM. More importantly, Trent Williams will be re-signed, and while that may lower his cap number slightly from 12.5MM, it will not be much considering what top 5 LTs make in the NFL. Joe Thomas' contract is 7 years/$84MM @ an AAV of $12MM.

What the Redskins needed was no cap penalty this season to ensure that they could sign Orakpo and put some of the money he will earn in this cap. In the next 2-3 years there will be significant dead cap and there will be players who will be signing VERY lucrative deals (Orakpo, Trent, RG3).

-----------------------------------

As it works out right now, the Redskins have an expected cap hit of $105,386,000 in 2014 compared to $105,772,000 with 13 less players signed - this does not include the cap penalty or dead cap.

:arrow: London Fletcher will be released with a $2.1MM penalty and $4.1MM savings.
:arrow: Josh Morgan will be released with a $3.3MM penalty and $6.8MM in savings.

Adjusted salary cap, with another ~$3MM dead cap from Jammal Brown and a couple of expected cuts, is looking like ~96 million giving the team 25 million to work with. Factor in any contracts signed this year (Sleepy Davis, Steiger, Lorenzo) and likely extensions (J. Wilson, D.Hall, etc) and you're left with far closer to 10 million, half of which will need to be used draft picks. Any remaining amount will then be used to extend current players or add low-cost free agents.

----------------------------------
When you have a franchise LT, franchise pass-rusher and a franchise QB, you have very little room left over once you take care of the middle-tier talent. Ultimately, the Redskins will be in cap trouble for the foreseeable future.

Bottom line: The Redskins need to hit on a high number of their picks if they hope to remain competitive during the next 5 years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11440
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A note: RGIII will need to be re-signed during the 2015 off-season if the Redskins hope to manage their cap - it is far too difficult to control your cap when you are paying your quarterback 1/6 of your total allowance.

By 2015-2016, I expect Trent, RGIII and Orakpo to account for $35-40MM of a ~ $125MM cap.

It's great to have a franchise QB, franchise LT and a franchise defensive player...but they cost a lot of money, and therefore you have to be very successful with your draft picks. What it means is that young players that the team develops, like Alfred Morris, will not be re-signed. The current predicament has far reaching implications.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8232
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think there will be a bunch of restructures. They'll probably do 2 or 3 but they can get most of what they need by resigning Hall to a lower rate and letting others walk. I don't think they'll bring back kory Lich. They drafted Leribeus to replace him. Moss could be cut as well. Most likely this will be a very quiet offseason for us as we sit and wait for the cap penalty to be lifted next season.

EDIT - the obvious answer to your questions is that we simply won't retain all those players. We will have to let some of them leave and attempt to replace them via the draft since going forward a large amount of our cap will be dedicated to stars like RG3, Trent Williams, Orapko, etc. Hopefully we can continue to draft well like we've done over the past few seasons. This is what good teams do. Lock up their stars and the rest of the roster is liquid, fluctuating in and out every few years.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11440
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
I dont think there will be a bunch of restructures. They'll probably do 2 or 3 but they can get most of what they need by resigning Hall to a lower rate and letting others walk. I don't think they'll bring back kory Lich. They drafted Leribeus to replace him. Moss could be cut as well. Most likely this will be a very quiet offseason for us as we sit and wait for the cap penalty to be lifted next season.


Basically the only way the Redskins get out of this year clean (without numerous restructurings) is to do the following:
- Release DeAngelo Hall and roll with scrubs OR release Santana AND give D.Hall an extension.
- Let Fred Davis, Steiger, and Rob Jackson walk (maybe Lorenzo)
- Trade down in the draft numerous times and have all of the rookies make the squad.

Even under this scenario, they are probably still too tight to the cap, so they will have to restructure a couple of other contracts. There will still be 10MM in dead cap, and about 15MM to spend on FA upgrades and re-signing Orakpo in 2014.

Even if they take the hit, it's still going to be tough for the next two seasons.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 8232
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
I dont think there will be a bunch of restructures. They'll probably do 2 or 3 but they can get most of what they need by resigning Hall to a lower rate and letting others walk. I don't think they'll bring back kory Lich. They drafted Leribeus to replace him. Moss could be cut as well. Most likely this will be a very quiet offseason for us as we sit and wait for the cap penalty to be lifted next season.


Basically the only way the Redskins get out of this year clean (without numerous restructurings) is to do the following:
- Release DeAngelo Hall and roll with scrubs OR release Santana AND give D.Hall an extension.
- Let Fred Davis, Steiger, and Rob Jackson walk (maybe Lorenzo)
- Trade down in the draft numerous times and have all of the rookies make the squad.

Even under this scenario, they are probably still too tight to the cap, so they will have to restructure a couple of other contracts. There will still be 10MM in dead cap, and about 15MM to spend on FA upgrades and re-signing Orakpo in 2014.

Even if they take the hit, it's still going to be tough for the next two seasons.
I didn't say clean. I think they'll restructure Garcon and Trent Williams; two players that should be around for a few years. I would release Moss and try to bring him back cheap. I'd extend Dhall to a cap friendly deal (he's made some public comments that he's willing to deal).

I think we'll be VERY quiet in free agency this year. I'm not opposed to letting Fred Davis walk either.

I'd like to point out that minus Kory Lich (who I think we should let walk) and possibly Rob Jackson (who may or may not still be a RFA), we should be able to bring back most of our guys from last year cheap. We'd be putting on the field again the defending NFC champions. I'm ok with that. Throw in 7 rookies to add some depth and/or fill in the practice squad and I think we'll come out ok.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65478
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
But the Redskins will have $18 million in cap returning next season when the cap penalty is gone. Also the cap might go up slightly. Not sure what your point is?
doesn't the new tv contract kick in next year? We won't have the 18m cap hit and the cap will go up because of the new tv contract. We will have the $ to re-sign Orakpo if we can't do it now.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG


Last edited by turtle28 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 65478
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
A note: RGIII will need to be re-signed during the 2015 off-season if the Redskins hope to manage their cap - it is far too difficult to control your cap when you are paying your quarterback 1/6 of your total allowance.

By 2015-2016, I expect Trent, RGIII and Orakpo to account for $35-40MM of a ~ $125MM cap.

It's great to have a franchise QB, franchise LT and a franchise defensive player...but they cost a lot of money, and therefore you have to be very successful with your draft picks. What it means is that young players that the team develops, like Alfred Morris, will not be re-signed. The current predicament has far reaching implications.
well we have no idea how much the cap limit will be in 2015. It might not be a huge deal, I wouldn't definitely say that Alfred Morris won't be with us on this date.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
KERRAKPO9891


Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 43
Location: Crozet, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/02/25/redskins-put-contract-talks-on-hold-as-they-work-to-recoup-salary-cap-space/

“They have a plan,” one person familiar with the team’s thinking said Monday, expressing the opinion that the Redskins “have very good arguments” for restoring their cap space. The person did not say, however, how the team plans to challenge the penalty.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 11440
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting rid of half their penalty would be huge for this team. I am a pessimist by nature, so naturally I do not expect anything to come of it. \

The difference, as I stated above, is that the team could do all of the following:

Arrow Tendering Jackson, Baker, Young, Paulsen, Sundberg.
Arrow Re-sign Lorenzo Alexander and Sleepy Fred.
Arrow Signing Steiger to a team-friendly deal similar to Will Montgomery's initial mid-length contract (before the restructure and added guaranteed money).
Arrow Give Orakpo an extension before he raises his perceived value.
Arrow Potentially add a top DB from the market with a couple of restructures (Hall and Moss).

It's the difference between a team that will contend in 3+ years for a SB and a team that could compete for a SB starting next season. Having the cap penalty means cutting veteran players like Santana Moss and DeAngelo Hall, while letting your experienced depth walk in free agency and therefore hurting your ability to absorb the impact of seasonal injuries.

Getting rid of the remaining cap penalty would be a defining moment in an eventual SB run, and not getting it done will simply prolong what should eventually happen (if RGIII becomes an elite QB like we all think he will).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
KERRAKPO9891


Joined: 22 Feb 2013
Posts: 43
Location: Crozet, VA
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/25/redskins-considering-nuclear-option-to-restore-cap-space/

Danny Boy means business! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group