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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JWingate wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
Well lets be honest, that trade will never happen and Vaccaro is a top prospect in this draft at a premium position and tbh I feel is a weak position in this draft. |
This is one of the deepest Safety classes the draft has had in close to a decade. It's very deep. You'll find starters into the 4th and possibly 5th round in this draft. This draft is deep at interior offensive linemen (C, OG), defensive tackle (NT, UT and DT), and Safety (FS, SS). If we play our cards right, we could fill a huge number of holes this year; holes which have existed for a decade. If we're able to trade down like ninja's scenario (or something similar), we'd be able to net two starting OGs, a starting C, a starting DT, and a starting Safety in the first 4 rounds. Vacarro cannot and will not compensate for that kind of long term depth, nor would he improve the performance of our current abomination of an o-line. The least important position on a defense - even at a need position - is not worth that much compared to the compensation we'd get by trading down. Not remotely.
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ninjaneer
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 2270
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
Well lets be honest, that trade will never happen and Vaccaro is a top prospect in this draft at a premium position and tbh I feel is a weak position in this draft. |
This is one of the deepest Safety classes the draft has had in close to a decade. It's very deep. You'll find starters into the 4th and possibly 5th round in this draft. This draft is deep at interior offensive linemen (C, OG), defensive tackle (NT, UT and DT), and Safety (FS, SS). If we play our cards right, we could fill a huge number of holes this year; holes which have existed for a decade. If we're able to trade down like ninja's scenario (or something similar), we'd be able to net two starting OGs, a starting C, a starting DT, and a starting Safety in the first 4 rounds. Vacarro cannot and will not compensate for that kind of long term depth, nor would he improve the performance of our current abomination of an o-line. The least important position on a defense - even at a need position - is not worth that much compared to the compensation we'd get by trading down. Not remotely. |
I concur.
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ninjaneer
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 2270
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| TheStarStillShines wrote: | First, it won't take that much for teams to move up 2 or 3 spots. Remmber the Boys only gave up a 2nd-round pick to move from 14 to 6 last year. At most, it will take a 3rd-round pick for team to go from 21 to 18.
That said, if those deals were on the table, you definitely make the trades since a lot players in the 15 to 30 range are quite comparable and the Boys have plenty of needs. |
the first trade was for a 4 and a 5 (Cinci actually wins the points battle) and the second trade was for a 5th and a 6th (we won the points battle by a couple)...
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CowboysTilIDie
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2269
Location: Amarillo, TX
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Plan regarding Vacarro. I still fail to see the hype surrounding this guy.
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19387
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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Rd 1 - Pick 23 - Jonathan Cooper, OG
Rd 2 - Pick 47 - Kawann Short, DT
Rd 3 - Pick 80 - Christine Michael, RB
Rd 4 - Pick 111 - Brian Schwenke, C
Rd 4 - Pick 117 - Brennan Williams, OT
Rd 5 - Pick 144 - Jelani Jenkins, OLB
Rd 5 - Pick 149 - Josh Evans, FS
Rd 5 - Pick 151 - David Bass, DE
Rd 6 - Pick 175 - Jordan Rodgers, QB
Rd 6 - Pick 183 - Quanterus Smith, DE
So...that could be our draft! 
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41473
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
You realize those are a 4th, two 5ths, amd a 6th... what long term starters are you gettinf?
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ninjaneer
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Using today's CBS rankings:
Rd 1 - Pick 23 - Jonathan Cooper OG North Carolina
Rd 2 - Pick 47 - Travis Frederick C Wisconsin
Rd 3 - Pick 80 - Andre Ellington RB Clemson
Rd 4 - Pick 111 - DJ Swearinger S South Carolina
Rd 4 - Pick 117 - Chase Thomas OLB Stanford
Rd 5 - Pick 144 - Montori Hughes DT Tennessee-Martin
Rd 5 - Pick 149 - Brennan Williams OT North Carolina
Rd 5 - Pick 151 - David Bass DE Missouri Western State
Rd 6 - Pick 175 - Cory Grissom DT South Florida
Rd 6 - Pick 183 - Michael Williams TE Alabama
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flyingmonkey30
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 5121
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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If I knew I could wait and get Cooper, then yeah, I would go ahead and make those trades. Otherwise, I might just stay put and take the top guy on my board. I'd even like to see us package some of those late round picks and get back up in the 3rd. I think there will be a lot of value picks in the 3rd-4th rounds of the draft this year
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JWingate
Joined: 10 Aug 2008
Posts: 3988
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
Well lets be honest, that trade will never happen and Vaccaro is a top prospect in this draft at a premium position and tbh I feel is a weak position in this draft. |
This is one of the deepest Safety classes the draft has had in close to a decade. It's very deep. You'll find starters into the 4th and possibly 5th round in this draft. This draft is deep at interior offensive linemen (C, OG), defensive tackle (NT, UT and DT), and Safety (FS, SS). If we play our cards right, we could fill a huge number of holes this year; holes which have existed for a decade. If we're able to trade down like ninja's scenario (or something similar), we'd be able to net two starting OGs, a starting C, a starting DT, and a starting Safety in the first 4 rounds. Vacarro cannot and will not compensate for that kind of long term depth, nor would he improve the performance of our current abomination of an o-line. The least important position on a defense - even at a need position - is not worth that much compared to the compensation we'd get by trading down. Not remotely. |
I misspoke this draft is very weak at the FS position, there are plenty of SS in this draft that could fight for a starting position in training camp. There is essentially Kenny Vaccaro and Jonathan Cyprien other than that I am questionable on any other Safety competing for a starting job at FS. I would be willing to play Elam, Reid, Rambo, Wilcox all at SS. I also believe Vaccaro is a top 5 prospect in this draft.
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Texas_OutLaw7
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 19387
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of '12
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| JWingate wrote: |
I misspoke this draft is very weak at the FS position, there are plenty of SS in this draft that could fight for a starting position in training camp. There is essentially Kenny Vaccaro and Jonathan Cyprien other than that I am questionable on any other Safety competing for a starting job at FS. I would be willing to play Elam, Reid, Rambo, Wilcox all at SS. I also believe Vaccaro is a top 5 prospect in this draft. |
Go check out Josh Evans, as a late round prospect.
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
You realize those are a 4th, two 5ths, amd a 6th... what long term starters are you gettinf? |
With the o-line and Safety classes being as deep as they are, starters can be found in the 4th and 5th rounds, MH. I thought that my later statements about the depths of the areas where we need help in explained that well enough.
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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WareWolf94
Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 5296
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:50 am Post subject: |
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The drafts strengths and depth match up almost perfectly with our needs, to me that signals alot of trade backs, leading to players we need falling into our laps.
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41473
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
You realize those are a 4th, two 5ths, amd a 6th... what long term starters are you gettinf? |
With the o-line and Safety classes being as deep as they are, starters can be found in the 4th and 5th rounds, MH. I thought that my later statements about the depths of the areas where we need help in explained that well enough. |
I would love to know who you think we would get in the 5th amd 6th rounds to be long term starters - and you of all people should know we dont hit on those late round picks - were better off tradinf them all for 7th round picks and drafting all DL
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TVScout
Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 1285
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| plan9misfit wrote 4th and 5th not 5th and 6th. Prospects for 4th and 5th include Tharold Simon, Kenyon Barner, Brennan Williams, Aaron Mellette, Braxton Cave, David Quessenberry. |
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plan9misfit
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 18010
Location: RIP: B2TB, T14, & S.A. We miss you.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | plan9misfit wrote: | | JWingate wrote: | | I wouldn't take the trade and select Kenny Vaccaro. |
You sir, are crazy. None of the Safeties in this class pose as much value as that trade. We'd get multiple long-term starters in multiple spots rather than focusing on one overrated Safety prospect. |
You realize those are a 4th, two 5ths, amd a 6th... what long term starters are you gettinf? |
With the o-line and Safety classes being as deep as they are, starters can be found in the 4th and 5th rounds, MH. I thought that my later statements about the depths of the areas where we need help in explained that well enough. |
I would love to know who you think we would get in the 5th amd 6th rounds to be long term starters - and you of all people should know we dont hit on those late round picks - were better off tradinf them all for 7th round picks and drafting all DL |
Or using them as leverage to trade into the higher rounds. More picks = more options.
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| The_Slamman wrote: | | It's like we are in a win now mentality with lose now personnel. |
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