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Starks to be Franchised ?
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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5745
Location: Kent, WA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with B67 that Odrick will be a beast on the inside of the 4-3. I saw some of his game while he was in college and he was straight up devastating to the O-line.

I like Starks, but not at $8 Mill a season. I sure hope we DO NOT franchise tag him. That would be a waste of money. The only way I would be happy with that is if he straight up would not take any deal that Miami offered AND we had a solid trade in place for Soliai in the realm of a 2nd round pick. Other than that, I am fine with Starks walking and Odrick taking over on the inside.

As for Odrick and Starks being the two on the inside, I worry that we will lose our stout run defense with no Soliai. That will be a huge blow to our D unless the DB's are significantly upgraded.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
I agree with B67 that Odrick will be a beast on the inside of the 4-3. I saw some of his game while he was in college and he was straight up devastating to the O-line.

I like Starks, but not at $8 Mill a season. I sure hope we DO NOT franchise tag him. That would be a waste of money. The only way I would be happy with that is if he straight up would not take any deal that Miami offered AND we had a solid trade in place for Soliai in the realm of a 2nd round pick. Other than that, I am fine with Starks walking and Odrick taking over on the inside.

As for Odrick and Starks being the two on the inside, I worry that we will lose our stout run defense with no Soliai. That will be a huge blow to our D unless the DB's are significantly upgraded.


I would remind everyone that Soliai just recently became an "every down DT".
His first 3 yrs he didn't have the stamina cause he'd eat himself out of 3rd down & a couple series.
Not to mention he's no where near as quick in pursuit sideline to sideline like Starks.

I like having Soliai but I would prefer to add 1 more Randy Stsrks instead.
He's simply a more "complete player".

My 2 cents
sug
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skatewood2


Joined: 10 Feb 2007
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Location: Kent, WA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SUG wrote:
skatewood2 wrote:
I agree with B67 that Odrick will be a beast on the inside of the 4-3. I saw some of his game while he was in college and he was straight up devastating to the O-line.

I like Starks, but not at $8 Mill a season. I sure hope we DO NOT franchise tag him. That would be a waste of money. The only way I would be happy with that is if he straight up would not take any deal that Miami offered AND we had a solid trade in place for Soliai in the realm of a 2nd round pick. Other than that, I am fine with Starks walking and Odrick taking over on the inside.

As for Odrick and Starks being the two on the inside, I worry that we will lose our stout run defense with no Soliai. That will be a huge blow to our D unless the DB's are significantly upgraded.


I would remind everyone that Soliai just recently became an "every down DT".
His first 3 yrs he didn't have the stamina cause he'd eat himself out of 3rd down & a couple series.
Not to mention he's no where near as quick in pursuit sideline to sideline like Starks.

I like having Soliai but I would prefer to add 1 more Randy Stsrks instead.
He's simply a more "complete player".

My 2 cents
sug


I completely agree with you SUG. But at the same time, Starks is getting older (how much does he have left in the tank) and Soliai has turned into an every down back and plugs the middle of our D-Line so that the RB cannot run thru there.

Didn't Starks have an off season? I thought near the end of the season people were complaining about how bad Starks had been this season. If that is the case, why are we willing to pay him as the top DE/DT in the league?
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Warpticon


Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 1587
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
SUG wrote:
skatewood2 wrote:
I agree with B67 that Odrick will be a beast on the inside of the 4-3. I saw some of his game while he was in college and he was straight up devastating to the O-line.

I like Starks, but not at $8 Mill a season. I sure hope we DO NOT franchise tag him. That would be a waste of money. The only way I would be happy with that is if he straight up would not take any deal that Miami offered AND we had a solid trade in place for Soliai in the realm of a 2nd round pick. Other than that, I am fine with Starks walking and Odrick taking over on the inside.

As for Odrick and Starks being the two on the inside, I worry that we will lose our stout run defense with no Soliai. That will be a huge blow to our D unless the DB's are significantly upgraded.


I would remind everyone that Soliai just recently became an "every down DT".
His first 3 yrs he didn't have the stamina cause he'd eat himself out of 3rd down & a couple series.
Not to mention he's no where near as quick in pursuit sideline to sideline like Starks.

I like having Soliai but I would prefer to add 1 more Randy Stsrks instead.
He's simply a more "complete player".

My 2 cents
sug


I completely agree with you SUG. But at the same time, Starks is getting older (how much does he have left in the tank) and Soliai has turned into an every down back and plugs the middle of our D-Line so that the RB cannot run thru there.

Didn't Starks have an off season? I thought near the end of the season people were complaining about how bad Starks had been this season. If that is the case, why are we willing to pay him as the top DE/DT in the league?


Uh no, nobody was complaining about how bad Starks has been this season. He was all-world earlier in the season and fell off toward the end, but nowhere close to being a complaint. No idea where you got that from. Also Starks is a whopping 16 days older than Soliai.
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SUG


Joined: 15 May 2007
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Location: Alameda, Ca
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skatewood2 wrote:
SUG wrote:
skatewood2 wrote:
I agree with B67 that Odrick will be a beast on the inside of the 4-3. I saw some of his game while he was in college and he was straight up devastating to the O-line.

I like Starks, but not at $8 Mill a season. I sure hope we DO NOT franchise tag him. That would be a waste of money. The only way I would be happy with that is if he straight up would not take any deal that Miami offered AND we had a solid trade in place for Soliai in the realm of a 2nd round pick. Other than that, I am fine with Starks walking and Odrick taking over on the inside.

As for Odrick and Starks being the two on the inside, I worry that we will lose our stout run defense with no Soliai. That will be a huge blow to our D unless the DB's are significantly upgraded.


I would remind everyone that Soliai just recently became an "every down DT".
His first 3 yrs he didn't have the stamina cause he'd eat himself out of 3rd down & a couple series.
Not to mention he's no where near as quick in pursuit sideline to sideline like Starks.

I like having Soliai but I would prefer to add 1 more Randy Stsrks instead.
He's simply a more "complete player".

My 2 cents
sug


I completely agree with you SUG. But at the same time, Starks is getting older (how much does he have left in the tank) and Soliai has turned into an every down back and plugs the middle of our D-Line so that the RB cannot run thru there.

Didn't Starks have an off season? I thought near the end of the season people were complaining about how bad Starks had been this season. If that is the case, why are we willing to pay him as the top DE/DT in the league?


If there were whispers of Starks game slowing down you are the first person I've heard mention it, news to me.

That's kind why early in this post I mentioned some elite examples of DT thriving in their golden yrs.
KC Hampton - Pitt, Ferggie Mia - Justin Smith - SF & now (quite possibly) Randy Starks.

My point is simple, until proven otherwise he is still the best all around DT in Mia roster, Bar None !

sug
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
SUG wrote:
Blagasse67 wrote:
Here is the deal, Starks and Soliai were a good combination last season. Kick Odrick inside and you have a good rotation with the 3. On passing downs, Starks and Odrick can come in and rush the passer.

If they tag Starks, they will look to get a deal done before the end of the season. If this happens, Soliai could be gone after his contract expires this season.


Howdy B67
I know Starks is "getting up there" but he hasn't shown signs that he is anything other than the best &
most versatile DLinemen in Mia.

You know it's not uncommon for some interior guys to flourish or at least be productive in the later portion of their careers.
Notables: KC Hampton, Vince Wilfork, (Mia) Furgeson, Justin Smith etc ...

I'm thinking we could put ourselves in a beneficial situation to trade Soliai to a 3/4 Deff team.
We may be able to generate a low 2nd/high 3rd rnd pk for him.

Just sayin, that would be financially more beneficial than letting him walk if we didn't have a suitable replacement in camp.

sug


Yes, but you want to know that you can lock Starks up for a couple more seasons. Can we lock up Starks? Trading Soliai could happen if we sign a DT, draft a DT or are happy with Keeshton Randle. I know Odrick will be a mainstay at DT but Starks is unkown.


I love the idea of locking Starks up.
I'm not at all convinced that Odrick is a guaranteed fit as an interior DL outside of a rotational guy who
happens to be affordable.
Last yr in a 3/4 YES by all means but he hasn't shown me he's a lock in this scheme.

sug


You didn't watch him in college than. Odrick is a beast. He is strong, athletic, and can shed blocks. Odrick was able to take on double teams, shed blocks, and make plays in the backfield. Odrick can play interior and play at a high level. He was rated as one of he better interior lineman in his draft. Odrick succeeded at 3-4 DE which is at times very similar to playing UT in a 4-3.


I think the biggest weakness for Odrick is he plays the wrong side. He is more suited to line up over the RT, who is more of a run blocker. Wake should play over the LT. I am totaly against franchising Starks and cutting Solai would be the biggest mistake Miami can make. He is the reason Miami is good against the run period. You cannot keep everyone. Too much money has been spent on defense already. It is time to spread the wealth to offense.
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TheKillerNacho


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know... I was kind of thinking we'd let Starks go and move Odrick inside to DT while addressing DE in the draft. Still with all the cap space we have we could easily tag Starks and still have plenty of cap space available. Starks is an absolute beast and would be worth having around next year, I think.
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Russ57


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure don't get why some think Starks is over the hill and has lost a step. Guy has done everything we have asked from play 3-4 DE and NT and now, 4-3 DT. He has played at darn near pro bowl level. IMHO he is one of the few bright spots on Ireland's record.

I don't think it would take anywhere near 8 mill a year if Miami was willing to offer a four year contract.

I fail to see what Odrick has done that would give anyone the impression that he could move inside and be the equal of Starks. What a player did in college matters little. Consider the following from a leading scout and then guess which Dolphin he is talking about:

"Terrific size and bulk with long arms...Great quickness...Has a non-stop motor...Is very strong and powerful...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Excellent range and he is relentless in pursuit...Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves...Can take on multiple blockers and shed the double team...Does a nice job versus the run...Has good instincts & awareness...Reliable tackler...Solid technician...Does a nice job in space...Extremely versatile...Can play a number of positions in different schemes."

Answer, Merling. And don't even get me started on what type of guy picks a pee wee herman dance!
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ57 wrote:
Sure don't get why some think Starks is over the hill and has lost a step. Guy has done everything we have asked from play 3-4 DE and NT and now, 4-3 DT. He has played at darn near pro bowl level. IMHO he is one of the few bright spots on Ireland's record.

I don't think it would take anywhere near 8 mill a year if Miami was willing to offer a four year contract.

I fail to see what Odrick has done that would give anyone the impression that he could move inside and be the equal of Starks. What a player did in college matters little. Consider the following from a leading scout and then guess which Dolphin he is talking about:

"Terrific size and bulk with long arms...Great quickness...Has a non-stop motor...Is very strong and powerful...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Excellent range and he is relentless in pursuit...Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves...Can take on multiple blockers and shed the double team...Does a nice job versus the run...Has good instincts & awareness...Reliable tackler...Solid technician...Does a nice job in space...Extremely versatile...Can play a number of positions in different schemes."

Answer, Merling. And don't even get me started on what type of guy picks a pee wee herman dance!


Has anyone heard a roomr that Miami was trying to trade Odrick. I could have sworn I read it somewhere.
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
Russ57 wrote:
Sure don't get why some think Starks is over the hill and has lost a step. Guy has done everything we have asked from play 3-4 DE and NT and now, 4-3 DT. He has played at darn near pro bowl level. IMHO he is one of the few bright spots on Ireland's record.

I don't think it would take anywhere near 8 mill a year if Miami was willing to offer a four year contract.

I fail to see what Odrick has done that would give anyone the impression that he could move inside and be the equal of Starks. What a player did in college matters little. Consider the following from a leading scout and then guess which Dolphin he is talking about:

"Terrific size and bulk with long arms...Great quickness...Has a non-stop motor...Is very strong and powerful...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Excellent range and he is relentless in pursuit...Natural pass rusher with a variety of moves...Can take on multiple blockers and shed the double team...Does a nice job versus the run...Has good instincts & awareness...Reliable tackler...Solid technician...Does a nice job in space...Extremely versatile...Can play a number of positions in different schemes."

Answer, Merling. And don't even get me started on what type of guy picks a pee wee herman dance!


Has anyone heard a roomr that Miami was trying to trade Odrick. I could have sworn I read it somewhere.


As I posted in another thread that was Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald suggesting it. There has been no one from the Dolphins that even threw it out there for reaction.
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fishfan4life


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I been reading if we resign Starks it sounds like Odrick is going to drop 20 pounds and play DE at 280 pounds.
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Blagasse67


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fishfan4life wrote:
From what I been reading if we resign Starks it sounds like Odrick is going to drop 20 pounds and play DE at 280 pounds.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5844/jared-odrick

Just to back you up here. This is a leadership on the part of Odrick. To become the best player he can be for the team. Do what is necessary. I like the fact he wants to lose weight to play better. I still think they need to play him at his strength of UT. Move Starks to NT. Let Odrick play head up on the G and get after the QB and get in the back field.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blagasse67 wrote:
fishfan4life wrote:
From what I been reading if we resign Starks it sounds like Odrick is going to drop 20 pounds and play DE at 280 pounds.


http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5844/jared-odrick

Just to back you up here. This is a leadership on the part of Odrick. To become the best player he can be for the team. Do what is necessary. I like the fact he wants to lose weight to play better. I still think they need to play him at his strength of UT. Move Starks to NT. Let Odrick play head up on the G and get after the QB and get in the back field.


Everything I read about Odrick is he is a team guy....I love his attitude and he seems, like you said, to be the best player he can for his team at whatever position they need him at...

I do hope they keep him as he seems more like a guy who is going to perform even better as he matures....
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