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CBears019


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people get too wrapped up in the numbers from a couple of drills at the combine. If a players runs a tenth of a second too fast or too slow then people freak out. The fact that OL are running the 40 and kickers/punters do the bench press is a waste of time.

Players should be judged by their tape and how they look in drills doing actual football moves; they're playing football after all, not track & field.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, just in general I think the combine gets a tad bit overrated every year.
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He's a playmaker though, and we can use more of those in the Devin.Fart
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
DaMike wrote:
CBears019 wrote:
Mark May is going off on Te'o on SC right now.
People who arent morons. Kiper, Bruschi and Pollack all like him. Kiper and Bruschi said first round pick.
I really just don't see any 1st round LBs outside of maybe Alec Ogletree if you look past the off the field stuff. I think 3 or 4 of them will go in the 2nd round tho, Te'o in that group.
I dont see how you can say Teo isnt a 1st and Ogletree is. This is Stephen Hill 2.0 talk without a good combine. Ogletree didnt test much better then Teo.
Ogletree tested IN A DIFFERENT LEAGUE than Te'o and again the tape backs that up. Te'o doesn't look fast or sudden on tape, and didn't test as such either. The testing just confirmed what I've been saying about Te'o all along. He fits as a 3-4 ILB as he can come up and fill a gap w/ the best of them, but he's not a 4-3 MLB b/c he doesn't have the range to run sideline to sideline. Ogletree probably doesn't go in the first either b/c of his character red flags, but he's more likely to do so than Te'o, who doesn't look like a first rounder on tape, didn't test like a first rounder, and you have a question of how naive he is and if he can handle being an NFL player w/ that type of exposure. Really don't know why you are so crazy over Te'o, he's not a transcendant player at all.
No Ogletree didn't. If you watched them in drills as well Ogletree didn't look much better. Teo's tape was 1st round worthy. That's when everyone had him as a 1st rounder. Why does he have to be a transcendent player?
b/c he's an ILB and if I'm making that kind of gamble on an unathletic player who doesn't fit my scheme, he better damn well be transcendant.


Exactly
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Landru


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0228-bears-pompei--20130228,0,7767587.column?track=rss

Good article by Dan Pompei on the winners of the combine. He calls Tavon Austin a fringe first rounder and Terron Armstead a high second rounder.
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blair18


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think you have to have some kind of account to see this.
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

blair18 wrote:
Think you have to have some kind of account to see this.


The Trib's website makes you sign up for a free account in order to see their online pieces. It's annoying, but it is what it is. Use a fake email, because they will spam you immediately after signing up.
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He's a playmaker though, and we can use more of those in the Devin.Fart
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronickerr wrote:
Thoughts on nabbing Menelik Watson at 20 if Cooper, Warmack, and Johnson are all gone?
Pass. I would take Armstead before Watson.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landru wrote:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-0228-bears-pompei--20130228,0,7767587.column?track=rss

Good article by Dan Pompei on the winners of the combine. He calls Tavon Austin a fringe first rounder and Terron Armstead a high second rounder.
Vice versa is just as likely.
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Landru


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
blair18 wrote:
Think you have to have some kind of account to see this.


The Trib's website makes you sign up for a free account in order to see their online pieces. It's annoying, but it is what it is. Use a fake email, because they will spam you immediately after signing up.


Really? Maybe it's because I'm in Canada, but I can see all the articles without an account.

My apologies if that's the case.
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pigsooie5


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SOCalBearsFan54 wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
And I know we need a TE, but what we really need is someone to attack the middle of the field.

That could be a TE or a Welker type player that canno be covered by LBs or NBs and can force safeties to stay deep in the middle.

Austin fits that bill.
I think the question is "for how long"? 20 is way too high for a guy this size.

This is the most overused statement Ive heard regarding Tavon Austin.. He came to WVU as a RB, he displays plenty of tenacity and toughness. He played in all 52 games during his 4 year career with NO injuries... Brandon Hardin played 0 games his last season before we drafted him, we weren't too concerned how his body would hold up... It's an unfair label people are putting on him. I mean he did rep 225 5 times more than a 320lb Brian Winters... Earl Bennett... 15 reps; Randall Cobb... 16 reps; Tavon Austin... 14 reps. The only knock anybody has on this guy is literally 2 inches/15 pounds, that to me, shouldn't be enough to deter you from drafting someone. I think it's foolish to disregard his skillset or put him down based on size.
No one has said he should not be drafted. I just said 20 is way too high. All those you mentioned were not/will not be in the first 20 taken.

He was not injured in college primarily because he is fast enough to avoid getting smashed but that won't be the case in the NFL. This (whether you like it or not) is a big man's game.

The reality is we just need too much to take him at 20.

Justin Blackmon was top 20... 14 reps. Shall I continue? He played 52 games with no injuries, that has to mean something. I've played the game recently Im fully aware it's a "big boys game" now, thanks.
The reality is our #2 option on offense was targeting 90 times less than Marshall, our need for another playmaker is greater than any position except OL(of which will be addressed mainly in FA IMO.)


What was the point of drafting Jeffery last year then? To me he's a big play maker on the other side of Marshall who will have a big year. He wasn't utilized properly because of injury and qb trust. The reason no one else was targeted as much as Marshall is because Cutler didnt trust the Wrs and TEs. If we drafted Austin at 20 what makes you think he will be involved in this offense enough, have Cutler's trust and be a "playmaker". I just don't see the point and purpose of reaching for Austin when there are other small speedy Wrs that we can draft in the later rounds.

It shouldn't end with Jeffery. I was one of his biggest advocates this time last year. Let's take a look at some recent Super Bowl winning teams, shall we?

2008 New York Giants:
Domenik Hixon- 43 receptions
Plaxico Burress- 35 receptions
Mario Manningham- 26 receptions
Steve Smith- 57 receptions
Amani Toomer- 48 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FIVE WR's with more receptions than any WR on our roster outside Marshall... What do they do? With the 29th pick in the 2009 NFL Draft, NYG select Hakeem Nicks WR.

2010 Green Bay Packers:
Jordy Nelson- 45 receptions
James Jones- 50 receptions
Donald Driver- 51 receptions
Greg Jennings- 76 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FOUR WR's with twice as many receptions as our #2 Receiver.... Than with the 64th overall pick in Round 2 of the 2011 Draft, GB selects WR Randall Cobb.

2011 New York Giants:
Victor Cruz- 82 receptions
Hakeem Nicks- 76 receptions
Mario Manningham- 40 receptions
(Jake Ballard- 38 recpetions)
That's 3 WR's with ~ twice as many receiving yards as our #2, in addition, it includes TWO 1000 yard receivers.... Than with the 63rd pick in round 2 of the 2012 Draft, NYG selects WR Rueben Randle.

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

The point is, elite teams spread the ball around and have multiple different playmakers with different skill sets to create mismatches.. Chicago doesn't have a lot of this right now. People that claim we have too many other "bigger" needs than WR in the first, just take a look at some brief history of recent teams. If and when an upper level OL is signed in Free Agency, which I fully anticipate, than a playmaker needs to be selected with pick #20. There are no LB's worthy of that pick, CB is more of a "want" than a "need". We "want" to draft a CB high to replace one of the leaving CB's next season, the reality is we have 2 All Pro's starting for us... far from a "need".
The QB trust issues your talking about were somewhat relative to the play calling, I do believe that. However, Jeffery had some issues with separation, and definetely saw his share of dropped passes. As a rookie, that's not the way to garner your QB's "trust". Discounting the possibility of a WR coming in and making an impact day one simply because Jeffery failed to is really foolish. Most receivers getting selected in the top 20 are vaulted to the #1 guy on their team... Austin would come into an ENTIRELY different situation here, going up against the nickel DB in the slot, and matching up against LB's in the backfield. The endless amount of possibilites and mismatches a player like Austin could provide would truly do wonders for this teams passing attack. Tavon has that attitude that I really like in a player, someone I could see Cutler jiving with right away.
The small speedy players your talking about are going to be very thin by the time pick #115 rolls around. The difference in skill level between a guy like Tavon Austin and Denard Robinson really is night and day.
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Landru


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigsooie5 wrote:

It shouldn't end with Jeffery. I was one of his biggest advocates this time last year. Let's take a look at some recent Super Bowl winning teams, shall we?

2008 New York Giants:
Domenik Hixon- 43 receptions
Plaxico Burress- 35 receptions
Mario Manningham- 26 receptions
Steve Smith- 57 receptions
Amani Toomer- 48 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FIVE WR's with more receptions than any WR on our roster outside Marshall... What do they do? With the 29th pick in the 2009 NFL Draft, NYG select Hakeem Nicks WR.

2010 Green Bay Packers:
Jordy Nelson- 45 receptions
James Jones- 50 receptions
Donald Driver- 51 receptions
Greg Jennings- 76 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FOUR WR's with twice as many receptions as our #2 Receiver.... Than with the 64th overall pick in Round 2 of the 2011 Draft, GB selects WR Randall Cobb.

2011 New York Giants:
Victor Cruz- 82 receptions
Hakeem Nicks- 76 receptions
Mario Manningham- 40 receptions
(Jake Ballard- 38 recpetions)
That's 3 WR's with ~ twice as many receiving yards as our #2, in addition, it includes TWO 1000 yard receivers.... Than with the 63rd pick in round 2 of the 2012 Draft, NYG selects WR Rueben Randle.

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

The point is, elite teams spread the ball around and have multiple different playmakers with different skill sets to create mismatches.. Chicago doesn't have a lot of this right now. People that claim we have too many other "bigger" needs than WR in the first, just take a look at some brief history of recent teams. If and when an upper level OL is signed in Free Agency, which I fully anticipate, than a playmaker needs to be selected with pick #20. There are no LB's worthy of that pick, CB is more of a "want" than a "need". We "want" to draft a CB high to replace one of the leaving CB's next season, the reality is we have 2 All Pro's starting for us... far from a "need".
The QB trust issues your talking about were somewhat relative to the play calling, I do believe that. However, Jeffery had some issues with separation, and definetely saw his share of dropped passes. As a rookie, that's not the way to garner your QB's "trust". Discounting the possibility of a WR coming in and making an impact day one simply because Jeffery failed to is really foolish. Most receivers getting selected in the top 20 are vaulted to the #1 guy on their team... Austin would come into an ENTIRELY different situation here, going up against the nickel DB in the slot, and matching up against LB's in the backfield. The endless amount of possibilites and mismatches a player like Austin could provide would truly do wonders for this teams passing attack. Tavon has that attitude that I really like in a player, someone I could see Cutler jiving with right away.
The small speedy players your talking about are going to be very thin by the time pick #115 rolls around. The difference in skill level between a guy like Tavon Austin and Denard Robinson really is night and day.


I agree that adding another WR should be a priority, but I think you're discounting the receiving core. Jeffery's 24 receptions is an anomaly. He suffered two injuries and missed a lot of practice time. He should rebound next year and get a lot more targets, especially if Cutler has more time to throw. Marshall has mentioned a few times that they will be training together in the off-season, so that should help as well.

Bennett was on pace for 39 receptions, but also missed a few games to injury. Considering he averaged about 50 receptions in his first two years, there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to do that again next year if he can stay healthy.

And then there's Matt Forte, who had 44 receptions and should've had more. I expect Trestman to use him much better than Tice did, so this number should climb. Throw in a capable tight-end from either the draft or FA, that's a bunch more receptions right there.

My other problem is that I think Austin is a reach at 20. He's projected to be a fringe first rounder, so unless we can trade back, I'd prefer Emery to go BPA. If one of the top 3 OT's are available, or Warmack/Cooper, I don't think you can pass on that kind of talent.
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pigsooie5


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landru wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:

It shouldn't end with Jeffery. I was one of his biggest advocates this time last year. Let's take a look at some recent Super Bowl winning teams, shall we?

2008 New York Giants:
Domenik Hixon- 43 receptions
Plaxico Burress- 35 receptions
Mario Manningham- 26 receptions
Steve Smith- 57 receptions
Amani Toomer- 48 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FIVE WR's with more receptions than any WR on our roster outside Marshall... What do they do? With the 29th pick in the 2009 NFL Draft, NYG select Hakeem Nicks WR.

2010 Green Bay Packers:
Jordy Nelson- 45 receptions
James Jones- 50 receptions
Donald Driver- 51 receptions
Greg Jennings- 76 receptions

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

That's FOUR WR's with twice as many receptions as our #2 Receiver.... Than with the 64th overall pick in Round 2 of the 2011 Draft, GB selects WR Randall Cobb.

2011 New York Giants:
Victor Cruz- 82 receptions
Hakeem Nicks- 76 receptions
Mario Manningham- 40 receptions
(Jake Ballard- 38 recpetions)
That's 3 WR's with ~ twice as many receiving yards as our #2, in addition, it includes TWO 1000 yard receivers.... Than with the 63rd pick in round 2 of the 2012 Draft, NYG selects WR Rueben Randle.

Alshon Jeffery- 24 receptions

The point is, elite teams spread the ball around and have multiple different playmakers with different skill sets to create mismatches.. Chicago doesn't have a lot of this right now. People that claim we have too many other "bigger" needs than WR in the first, just take a look at some brief history of recent teams. If and when an upper level OL is signed in Free Agency, which I fully anticipate, than a playmaker needs to be selected with pick #20. There are no LB's worthy of that pick, CB is more of a "want" than a "need". We "want" to draft a CB high to replace one of the leaving CB's next season, the reality is we have 2 All Pro's starting for us... far from a "need".
The QB trust issues your talking about were somewhat relative to the play calling, I do believe that. However, Jeffery had some issues with separation, and definetely saw his share of dropped passes. As a rookie, that's not the way to garner your QB's "trust". Discounting the possibility of a WR coming in and making an impact day one simply because Jeffery failed to is really foolish. Most receivers getting selected in the top 20 are vaulted to the #1 guy on their team... Austin would come into an ENTIRELY different situation here, going up against the nickel DB in the slot, and matching up against LB's in the backfield. The endless amount of possibilites and mismatches a player like Austin could provide would truly do wonders for this teams passing attack. Tavon has that attitude that I really like in a player, someone I could see Cutler jiving with right away.
The small speedy players your talking about are going to be very thin by the time pick #115 rolls around. The difference in skill level between a guy like Tavon Austin and Denard Robinson really is night and day.


I agree that adding another WR should be a priority, but I think you're discounting the receiving core. Jeffery's 24 receptions is an anomaly. He suffered two injuries and missed a lot of practice time. He should rebound next year and get a lot more targets, especially if Cutler has more time to throw. Marshall has mentioned a few times that they will be training together in the off-season, so that should help as well.

Bennett was on pace for 39 receptions, but also missed a few games to injury. Considering he averaged about 50 receptions in his first two years, there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to do that again next year if he can stay healthy.

And then there's Matt Forte, who had 44 receptions and should've had more. I expect Trestman to use him much better than Tice did, so this number should climb. Throw in a capable tight-end from either the draft or FA, that's a bunch more receptions right there.

My other problem is that I think Austin is a reach at 20. He's projected to be a fringe first rounder, so unless we can trade back, I'd prefer Emery to go BPA. If one of the top 3 OT's are available, or Warmack/Cooper, I don't think you can pass on that kind of talent.

I'm not discounting anything. The facts are Bennett couldn't even post 30 receptions as the #2 WR half the season. Our 2nd receiver was targetted 89 less times than Marshall. Not only that but Marsh and Jeffery display the same skillset in a sense, we lacked speed on offense for sure last season. Someone like Austin would provide that threat, being used all over the field. At this point, its extremely unlikely that any of the top 5 OL are available. Fluker is unkown right now, he could be as well, but I'm not a fan of his at all. Emery has said himself this game is about playmakers, who has the most playmakers on the field, so I think some people will be surprised when we address the position early on.

EDIT: Also, Austin is ranked #24 overall by http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings which is the most reliable source out there IMO...
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Chronickerr


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
Thoughts on nabbing Menelik Watson at 20 if Cooper, Warmack, and Johnson are all gone?
I wouldnt want Watson in the 4th round.


Watson won't get out of the 2nd round and I think it's a real possibility if the Bears decide they want to go OT despite the true 3 OT studs and 2 G studs being gone he'll be strongly considered here. Fluker gave up way to many sacks last year and I don't like him at 20, too high.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronickerr wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
Thoughts on nabbing Menelik Watson at 20 if Cooper, Warmack, and Johnson are all gone?
I wouldnt want Watson in the 4th round.


Watson won't get out of the 2nd round and I think it's a real possibility if the Bears decide they want to go OT despite the true 3 OT studs and 2 G studs being gone he'll be strongly considered here. Fluker gave up way to many sacks last year and I don't like him at 20, too high.
I hope he goes in round 2. Just not to us.
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Chronickerr


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
Thoughts on nabbing Menelik Watson at 20 if Cooper, Warmack, and Johnson are all gone?
I wouldnt want Watson in the 4th round.


Watson won't get out of the 2nd round and I think it's a real possibility if the Bears decide they want to go OT despite the true 3 OT studs and 2 G studs being gone he'll be strongly considered here. Fluker gave up way to many sacks last year and I don't like him at 20, too high.
I hope he goes in round 2. Just not to us.


After the big 3 OT's and 2 G's, how do you rank the next 5 Olineman?
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chronickerr wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
DaMike wrote:
Chronickerr wrote:
Thoughts on nabbing Menelik Watson at 20 if Cooper, Warmack, and Johnson are all gone?
I wouldnt want Watson in the 4th round.


Watson won't get out of the 2nd round and I think it's a real possibility if the Bears decide they want to go OT despite the true 3 OT studs and 2 G studs being gone he'll be strongly considered here. Fluker gave up way to many sacks last year and I don't like him at 20, too high.
I hope he goes in round 2. Just not to us.


After the big 3 OT's and 2 G's, how do you rank the next 5 Olineman?
I dont have my rankings handy but he's not in my top 15.
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