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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49022
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
I don't understand all the hate towards Gilbert. I could understand if he was a 4th-5th yr player. But he's only going into his 3rd season and his second season he was injured the entire time. I'm not saying he's a great OT, but with the current state of our OL I believe he's fine.

It's funny to hear all this positive talk about M. Starks because quite a few of you rode him off years ago. Not to toot my own horn, but I defended M. Starks at the time because I believe he got the wrong end of the deal. As I believe Marcus Gilbert is receiving at this time.


Pretty sure you defended Willie Colon a good bit as well. How has that worked out?

Max Starks didnt get the wrong end of the deal. Not sure how you can defend a guy who wasnt working hard and coming to camp out of shape. On top of that, he wasnt good at RT. He was okay for Cowher's offense because we didnt pass much. He was a pretty awful pass blocker at RT, even if he was a decent run blocker. Thats why many wrote him off.

It wasnt until he made the switch to LT that he started looking solid. However, unlike Gilbert, Starks was more natural as a LT.

Gilbert is getting his lumps because he is soft, has absolutely no tenacity when on the field. and horrible balance, footwork and coordination.

Could he turn it around? Sure....but given what he has shown thus far and the fact that he isnt a good fit for the ZBS, Im not sure whats to be super optimistic about.

After 2 years in the league, you can start making judgement on a player if theyve had a fair share of playing time. Maybe not FINAL judgement, but you can start gauging his worth.

Also, not sure why you constantly have to refer to any criticism of this team or the players as "hate". You do realize people can have criticisms without it being "hate" right?
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at23steelers


Joined: 05 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
if Colon didn't get paid as much as he does, and didn't commit as many penalties, he'd be Ramon Foster. Neither are suited for a ZBS.


But Foster doesn't fall down after every play?? Cmon, my nickname for Colon is Field General for a reason!! Cool That's where he always ends up.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I don't understand all the hate towards Gilbert. I could understand if he was a 4th-5th yr player. But he's only going into his 3rd season and his second season he was injured the entire time. I'm not saying he's a great OT, but with the current state of our OL I believe he's fine.

It's funny to hear all this positive talk about M. Starks because quite a few of you rode him off years ago. Not to toot my own horn, but I defended M. Starks at the time because I believe he got the wrong end of the deal. As I believe Marcus Gilbert is receiving at this time.


Pretty sure you defended Willie Colon a good bit as well. How has that worked out?

Max Starks didnt get the wrong end of the deal. Not sure how you can defend a guy who wasnt working hard and coming to camp out of shape. On top of that, he wasnt good at RT. He was okay for Cowher's offense because we didnt pass much. He was a pretty awful pass blocker at RT, even if he was a decent run blocker. Thats why many wrote him off.

It wasnt until he made the switch to LT that he started looking solid. However, unlike Gilbert, Starks was more natural as a LT.

Gilbert is getting his lumps because he is soft, has absolutely no tenacity when on the field. and horrible balance, footwork and coordination.

Could he turn it around? Sure....but given what he has shown thus far and the fact that he isnt a good fit for the ZBS, Im not sure whats to be super optimistic about.

After 2 years in the league, you can start making judgement on a player if theyve had a fair share of playing time. Maybe not FINAL judgement, but you can start gauging his worth.

Also, not sure why you constantly have to refer to any criticism of this team or the players as "hate". You do realize people can have criticisms without it being "hate" right?


I defended W. Colon I don't know....maybe I agreed with his switch to OG. But I was never a W. Colon fan, but aye I could of said some nice things.

Max Starks was soft also didn't play with a mean streak, but when move to a more finesse side of the ball he became a better player. Not saying Gilbert can do the same, but playing LT is more finesse then power for the most part.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I don't understand all the hate towards Gilbert. I could understand if he was a 4th-5th yr player. But he's only going into his 3rd season and his second season he was injured the entire time. I'm not saying he's a great OT, but with the current state of our OL I believe he's fine.

It's funny to hear all this positive talk about M. Starks because quite a few of you rode him off years ago. Not to toot my own horn, but I defended M. Starks at the time because I believe he got the wrong end of the deal. As I believe Marcus Gilbert is receiving at this time.


Pretty sure you defended Willie Colon a good bit as well. How has that worked out?

Max Starks didnt get the wrong end of the deal. Not sure how you can defend a guy who wasnt working hard and coming to camp out of shape. On top of that, he wasnt good at RT. He was okay for Cowher's offense because we didnt pass much. He was a pretty awful pass blocker at RT, even if he was a decent run blocker. Thats why many wrote him off.

It wasnt until he made the switch to LT that he started looking solid. However, unlike Gilbert, Starks was more natural as a LT.

Gilbert is getting his lumps because he is soft, has absolutely no tenacity when on the field. and horrible balance, footwork and coordination.

Could he turn it around? Sure....but given what he has shown thus far and the fact that he isnt a good fit for the ZBS, Im not sure whats to be super optimistic about.

After 2 years in the league, you can start making judgement on a player if theyve had a fair share of playing time. Maybe not FINAL judgement, but you can start gauging his worth.

Also, not sure why you constantly have to refer to any criticism of this team or the players as "hate". You do realize people can have criticisms without it being "hate" right?


I defended W. Colon I don't know....maybe I agreed with his switch to OG. But I was never a W. Colon fan, but aye I could of said some nice things.

Max Starks was soft also didn't play with a mean streak, but when move to a more finesse side of the ball he became a better player. Not saying Gilbert can do the same, but playing LT is more finesse then power for the most part.


Starks had the occasional mean streak...his motor just ran hot and cold.

Gilbert does compare to Starks in many ways, but I never liked Gilbert and have little faith he can do anything. Not being pessimistic, but I didnt think he was good in college and thus far, he hasnt done much of anything to change my mind.

However, I hope you are right. Situations like this...I dont mind eating crow if it means a player turns out to be better than I thought. Same goes for Jason Worlids. I think they are both bums, but hopefully, Im eating those words in a year or two.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:

However, I hope you are right. Situations like this...I dont mind eating crow if it means a player turns out to be better than I thought. Same goes for Jason Worlids. I think they are both bums, but hopefully, Im eating those words in a year or two.


I feel exactly the same as you there.
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SteelProven


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Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I don't understand all the hate towards Gilbert. I could understand if he was a 4th-5th yr player. But he's only going into his 3rd season and his second season he was injured the entire time. I'm not saying he's a great OT, but with the current state of our OL I believe he's fine.

It's funny to hear all this positive talk about M. Starks because quite a few of you rode him off years ago. Not to toot my own horn, but I defended M. Starks at the time because I believe he got the wrong end of the deal. As I believe Marcus Gilbert is receiving at this time.


Pretty sure you defended Willie Colon a good bit as well. How has that worked out?

Max Starks didnt get the wrong end of the deal. Not sure how you can defend a guy who wasnt working hard and coming to camp out of shape. On top of that, he wasnt good at RT. He was okay for Cowher's offense because we didnt pass much. He was a pretty awful pass blocker at RT, even if he was a decent run blocker. Thats why many wrote him off.

It wasnt until he made the switch to LT that he started looking solid. However, unlike Gilbert, Starks was more natural as a LT.

Gilbert is getting his lumps because he is soft, has absolutely no tenacity when on the field. and horrible balance, footwork and coordination.

Could he turn it around? Sure....but given what he has shown thus far and the fact that he isnt a good fit for the ZBS, Im not sure whats to be super optimistic about.

After 2 years in the league, you can start making judgement on a player if theyve had a fair share of playing time. Maybe not FINAL judgement, but you can start gauging his worth.

Also, not sure why you constantly have to refer to any criticism of this team or the players as "hate". You do realize people can have criticisms without it being "hate" right?


I defended W. Colon I don't know....maybe I agreed with his switch to OG. But I was never a W. Colon fan, but aye I could of said some nice things.

Max Starks was soft also didn't play with a mean streak, but when move to a more finesse side of the ball he became a better player. Not saying Gilbert can do the same, but playing LT is more finesse then power for the most part.


Starks had the occasional mean streak...his motor just ran hot and cold.

Gilbert does compare to Starks in many ways, but I never liked Gilbert and have little faith he can do anything. Not being pessimistic, but I didnt think he was good in college and thus far, he hasnt done much of anything to change my mind.

However, I hope you are right. Situations like this...I dont mind eating crow if it means a player turns out to be better than I thought. Same goes for Jason Worlids. I think they are both bums, but hopefully, Im eating those words in a year or two.


I have a feeling Worilds or Gilbert one of the two isn't going to work out. But I like Worilds a lot believe he has some Joey Porter type qualities. But Worilds may never get a chance if a player like Jarvis Jones does fall. Because even though I believe Worilds has the edge. I just think the disparity in talent between the two will be to much for the Steelers to overlook. Similar to how Woodley did C. Haggans at certain times of the game his rookie season.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
I don't understand all the hate towards Gilbert. I could understand if he was a 4th-5th yr player. But he's only going into his 3rd season and his second season he was injured the entire time. I'm not saying he's a great OT, but with the current state of our OL I believe he's fine.

It's funny to hear all this positive talk about M. Starks because quite a few of you rode him off years ago. Not to toot my own horn, but I defended M. Starks at the time because I believe he got the wrong end of the deal. As I believe Marcus Gilbert is receiving at this time.


Pretty sure you defended Willie Colon a good bit as well. How has that worked out?

Max Starks didnt get the wrong end of the deal. Not sure how you can defend a guy who wasnt working hard and coming to camp out of shape. On top of that, he wasnt good at RT. He was okay for Cowher's offense because we didnt pass much. He was a pretty awful pass blocker at RT, even if he was a decent run blocker. Thats why many wrote him off.

It wasnt until he made the switch to LT that he started looking solid. However, unlike Gilbert, Starks was more natural as a LT.

Gilbert is getting his lumps because he is soft, has absolutely no tenacity when on the field. and horrible balance, footwork and coordination.

Could he turn it around? Sure....but given what he has shown thus far and the fact that he isnt a good fit for the ZBS, Im not sure whats to be super optimistic about.

After 2 years in the league, you can start making judgement on a player if theyve had a fair share of playing time. Maybe not FINAL judgement, but you can start gauging his worth.

Also, not sure why you constantly have to refer to any criticism of this team or the players as "hate". You do realize people can have criticisms without it being "hate" right?


I defended W. Colon I don't know....maybe I agreed with his switch to OG. But I was never a W. Colon fan, but aye I could of said some nice things.

Max Starks was soft also didn't play with a mean streak, but when move to a more finesse side of the ball he became a better player. Not saying Gilbert can do the same, but playing LT is more finesse then power for the most part.


Starks had the occasional mean streak...his motor just ran hot and cold.

Gilbert does compare to Starks in many ways, but I never liked Gilbert and have little faith he can do anything. Not being pessimistic, but I didnt think he was good in college and thus far, he hasnt done much of anything to change my mind.

However, I hope you are right. Situations like this...I dont mind eating crow if it means a player turns out to be better than I thought. Same goes for Jason Worlids. I think they are both bums, but hopefully, Im eating those words in a year or two.


I have a feeling Worilds or Gilbert one of the two isn't going to work out. But I like Worilds a lot believe he has some Joey Porter type qualities. But Worilds may never get a chance if a player like Jarvis Jones does fall. Because even though I believe Worilds has the edge. I just think the disparity in talent between the two will be to much for the Steelers to overlook. Similar to how Woodley did C. Haggans at certain times of the game his rookie season.


But thats the thing.

Some Steeler fans claim that Worlids never got a chance, when in fact he has. Guys like Porter, Woodley and even Harrison showed that, when asked, they could play the run efficiently and beat an OT off the edge....two things Worlids has never done.

Its the equivalent of saying Bruce Davis never got a chance. Maybe he didnt, but thats because he didnt earn it. Neither has Worlids.

Out of pure desperation, we may be forced to start him....and while I wont knock on you or anyone else who wants to give Worlids a chance to start, I will say that its pretty blind optimism to hope he can do anything given what he has shown (or not shown), and that no one should feel entirely comfotable with him getting the job, especially if he isnt pushed to earn it.
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at23steelers


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@43: Pretty off-topic but who do you have more faith in starting between Worilds and Gilbert?
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

at23steelers wrote:
@43: Pretty off-topic but who do you have more faith in starting between Worilds and Gilbert?


Gilbert, only because he has shown he can be somewhat decent when he isnt nursing his sore va....nevermind.

Worlids...well, he has never shown that he can play the run or get pressure other than when he gets a free shot or only has to deal with a RB...a RB that cant block, that is.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
But thats the thing.

Some Steeler fans claim that Worlids never got a chance, when in fact he has. Guys like Porter, Woodley and even Harrison showed that, when asked, they could play the run efficiently and beat an OT off the edge....two things Worlids has never done.

Its the equivalent of saying Bruce Davis never got a chance. Maybe he didnt, but thats because he didnt earn it. Neither has Worlids.

Out of pure desperation, we may be forced to start him....and while I wont knock on you or anyone else who wants to give Worlids a chance to start, I will say that its pretty blind optimism to hope he can do anything given what he has shown (or not shown), and that no one should feel entirely comfotable with him getting the job, especially if he isnt pushed to earn it.


Worilds has earned it by getting 10 sacks in mop up duty and as a fill in. I agree there are some hurdles for Worilds to get over if he wants to remain a starter if given a chance. But we aren't talking about a player that has done nothing. Because for all the flack that Worilds receives he's played all three seasons.

This poor against the run thing is crazy also because I looked at the games that Worilds started. I would say the first Browns game where the defense was keeping the Steelers in the game was one of Worilds best as a pro. That game also had some of the other less heralded players have very good games (Hood and McLendon).

I'm not gonna derail this thread by turning into a Worilds debate. But if there was a player that be handed the job on the team its Worilds. Just like Keenan Lewis got the starting job by beating no one.
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