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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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 Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Maddogg wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
and when the common reply from the vet is "I'm here to play, its the coaches job to teach" what do you do then? |
I would not resign Hartline. I'd keep that money and go sign Greg Jennings and Mike Wallace. That would give us a deep threat, which we severly lack in Wallace, and then Jennings is a short term fix (probably 3 years or so) and a top flight WR corps for a couple of years. It also allows Tannehill to mature with veteran WR's as opposed to rookies that need to be brought up to speed. Yes, that would put a large dent in our free agent money, but so be it.
I'd then spend draft picks on restoring the OL and since Sean Smith is probably going to be too rich for my blood, I'd have to spend top draft picks on DB's to patch up our decimated secondary.
If there are any free agent dollars left over I'd find a DE with something left in the tank.
The reason I would use so many free agent dollars on our WR's is because our offense is lacking any and all threat. As an article in the Herald (I think) recently pointed out we have WAY more money allotted to our defense currently. Its time to repair and upgrade our offense now. We need WR help more than any other position and I wouldn't spend a dollar on Hartline because he is not a threat to take it to the house. Bess serves us fine from the slot. Wallace, Jennings and Bess, make us scary on offense.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | To me I see Mike Wallace as a compliment. He is not a #1. Whatever Miami does for receiver in free agency they still need to draft one in the first two rounds. I prefer actually prefer Hartline over Wallace because of his repore with Tanny. I do not think Miami will sign a Mike Wallace and Hartline and then spend a first round pick on another. I do suspect Miami will draft a receiver so that means Wallace or Hartline will be resigned, not both. |
"This offense doesn't require a #1" was the refrain I've heard time and time again when it comes to this offense. In fact, the ideal WR is productive with about 60-70 catches a season. Wallace fills that bill well and gives us a deep threat that we have lacked for some time.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1126
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | To me I see Mike Wallace as a compliment. He is not a #1. Whatever Miami does for receiver in free agency they still need to draft one in the first two rounds. I prefer actually prefer Hartline over Wallace because of his repore with Tanny. I do not think Miami will sign a Mike Wallace and Hartline and then spend a first round pick on another. I do suspect Miami will draft a receiver so that means Wallace or Hartline will be resigned, not both. |
"This offense doesn't require a #1" was the refrain I've heard time and time again when it comes to this offense. In fact, the ideal WR is productive with about 60-70 catches a season. Wallace fills that bill well and gives us a deep threat that we have lacked for some time. |
You prefer Hartline over Wallace becuase of repore with tanny? the same repore that got them 1 single touchdown. I am not really caught up in this guy is a 1 or 2 whatever and wallace may not be a 1 but he is not just a speed guy he is a TOUCHDOWN maker 26 in his last 3 years and he has really become good at running crossing routes and get the ball on the move a big option in a WCO. I like the fact that he can only have a game where he catches 2 passes but makes his teamates better by clearing out the safety. The only problem I have with signing wallace is its going to be a huge bidding war but hey thats life |
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Russ57
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 538
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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There is only one reason to sign Wallace and that is speed. If you look at his numbers they have gotten worse every year. He isn't ranked anywhere near the top in any area. Yet he thinks he deserves to be paid like one of the top WR's. No wonder the Steelers are letting him walk.
All that said we are getting desparate. My concern is what does he have to offer once his speed declines? He already rejected a 5 year/50 million contract. That is a lot of money for someone who isn't a top rated WR.
Lets be honest, Wallace is nowhere near what Brandon Marshall was. I'd rather take my chances with Jenning's injury history, smartness, soft hands, and route running ablity.....then resign Hartline, and draft a WR in the 2nd.
Me? I'd go after Bowe. I feel his skill set translates to what we do better. Besides, teams are letting Wallace, Jennings, and maybe Welker walk. KC isn't looking to let Bowe go. That alone should say something. Also consider which WR's had which QB's. I mean no wonder the guy wants out of KC. |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| fishfan4life wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | To me I see Mike Wallace as a compliment. He is not a #1. Whatever Miami does for receiver in free agency they still need to draft one in the first two rounds. I prefer actually prefer Hartline over Wallace because of his repore with Tanny. I do not think Miami will sign a Mike Wallace and Hartline and then spend a first round pick on another. I do suspect Miami will draft a receiver so that means Wallace or Hartline will be resigned, not both. |
"This offense doesn't require a #1" was the refrain I've heard time and time again when it comes to this offense. In fact, the ideal WR is productive with about 60-70 catches a season. Wallace fills that bill well and gives us a deep threat that we have lacked for some time. |
You prefer Hartline over Wallace becuase of repore with tanny? the same repore that got them 1 single touchdown. I am not really caught up in this guy is a 1 or 2 whatever and wallace may not be a 1 but he is not just a speed guy he is a TOUCHDOWN maker 26 in his last 3 years and he has really become good at running crossing routes and get the ball on the move a big option in a WCO. I like the fact that he can only have a game where he catches 2 passes but makes his teamates better by clearing out the safety. The only problem I have with signing wallace is its going to be a huge bidding war but hey thats life |
I'm not sure if this post is directed to me or not. I think it was intended for ovaw8lover, but it quoted my post.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1126
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ57 wrote: | There is only one reason to sign Wallace and that is speed. If you look at his numbers they have gotten worse every year. He isn't ranked anywhere near the top in any area. Yet he thinks he deserves to be paid like one of the top WR's. No wonder the Steelers are letting him walk.
All that said we are getting desparate. My concern is what does he have to offer once his speed declines? He already rejected a 5 year/50 million contract. That is a lot of money for someone who isn't a top rated WR.
Lets be honest, Wallace is nowhere near what Brandon Marshall was. I'd rather take my chances with Jenning's injury history, smartness, soft hands, and route running ablity.....then resign Hartline, and draft a WR in the 2nd.
Me? I'd go after Bowe. I feel his skill set translates to what we do better. Besides, teams are letting Wallace, Jennings, and maybe Welker walk. KC isn't looking to let Bowe go. That alone should say something. Also consider which WR's had which QB's. I mean no wonder the guy wants out of KC. |
The steelers are cap strapped bud big time and KC is desperate they dont have antonio brown heath miller emanual sanders to throw to. Wallace 26 TOUCHDOWNS in 3 years and has only missed one game in 4 years and only 26 years old . Bill polian recently confirmed what I had been thinking by saying he is a better route runner then people think. Wallace runs alot of crossing routes bubble screens and is improving in the slant game. |
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Mercury22
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 12328
Location: the 50 yard line
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ57 wrote: | There is only one reason to sign Wallace and that is speed. If you look at his numbers they have gotten worse every year. He isn't ranked anywhere near the top in any area. Yet he thinks he deserves to be paid like one of the top WR's. No wonder the Steelers are letting him walk.
All that said we are getting desparate. My concern is what does he have to offer once his speed declines? He already rejected a 5 year/50 million contract. That is a lot of money for someone who isn't a top rated WR.
Lets be honest, Wallace is nowhere near what Brandon Marshall was. I'd rather take my chances with Jenning's injury history, smartness, soft hands, and route running ablity.....then resign Hartline, and draft a WR in the 2nd.
Me? I'd go after Bowe. I feel his skill set translates to what we do better. Besides, teams are letting Wallace, Jennings, and maybe Welker walk. KC isn't looking to let Bowe go. That alone should say something. Also consider which WR's had which QB's. I mean no wonder the guy wants out of KC. |
Every single free agent comes with baggage, otherwise they probably wouldn't be a free agent. I agree with you though, Marshall is better than any player in free agency, including Wallace.
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"22 players are involved in every football play. To value precisely the activity of one of them, it is first necessary to account for the actions of the other 21" |
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1126
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | fishfan4life wrote: | | Mercury22 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | To me I see Mike Wallace as a compliment. He is not a #1. Whatever Miami does for receiver in free agency they still need to draft one in the first two rounds. I prefer actually prefer Hartline over Wallace because of his repore with Tanny. I do not think Miami will sign a Mike Wallace and Hartline and then spend a first round pick on another. I do suspect Miami will draft a receiver so that means Wallace or Hartline will be resigned, not both. |
"This offense doesn't require a #1" was the refrain I've heard time and time again when it comes to this offense. In fact, the ideal WR is productive with about 60-70 catches a season. Wallace fills that bill well and gives us a deep threat that we have lacked for some time. |
You prefer Hartline over Wallace becuase of repore with tanny? the same repore that got them 1 single touchdown. I am not really caught up in this guy is a 1 or 2 whatever and wallace may not be a 1 but he is not just a speed guy he is a TOUCHDOWN maker 26 in his last 3 years and he has really become good at running crossing routes and get the ball on the move a big option in a WCO. I like the fact that he can only have a game where he catches 2 passes but makes his teamates better by clearing out the safety. The only problem I have with signing wallace is its going to be a huge bidding war but hey thats life |
I'm not sure if this post is directed to me or not. I think it was intended for ovaw8lover, but it quoted my post. |
Yes sorry |
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patdt13
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 6848
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mercury22 wrote: | | Maddogg wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
and when the common reply from the vet is "I'm here to play, its the coaches job to teach" what do you do then? |
I would not resign Hartline. I'd keep that money and go sign Greg Jennings and Mike Wallace. That would give us a deep threat, which we severly lack in Wallace, and then Jennings is a short term fix (probably 3 years or so) and a top flight WR corps for a couple of years.
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Honestly, I'd resign B Hart. He's developing good chemistry with Tannehill. Why would you want to break that?
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ovaw8lover
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 8666
Location: Dolphins Stadium
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
I am not for any scenerio that has Jennings a part of it. I will take Hartline over Jennings right now. I do like Mike Wallace's speed. I like Hartlines route running. I like Bess's hands. I hate Jennings with a passion dude.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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The Dolphins will need to acquire at least 3 WR this off-season to go with Bess (that just sounds sad). That will include at least one big free agent signing and drafting one early....the other is still up in the air, it could be a Hartline resign, a second early draft pick, Jennings or trade and anything less will feel like a disappointment.
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Maddogg
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 1119
Location: A Galaxy Far Far Away......
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
I am not for any scenerio that has Jennings a part of it. I will take Hartline over Jennings right now. I do like Mike Wallace's speed. I like Hartlines route running. I like Bess's hands. I hate Jennings with a passion dude. |
I would not want Jennings either. I believe injury has to be a key concern. Rather than becoming a significant force on offense I see Greg Jennings future with injury attorney commercials, 1-800-HURTWRS.
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skatewood2
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 5543
Location: Kent, WA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| Maddogg wrote: | The correct answer is :
1) FA - Mike Wallace
2) Resign - Brian Hartline
3) Draft - Aaron Mellette(Round 5) |
The problem with this is that everyone thru a major fit when Ireland would not touch a WR till the 5th round or later. Now you want to wait till round 5 with so many good looking WR's in the draft? I think that would be a major cause of Ireland being fired before the draft is over IMO. I like Ireland, but he needs to hit on one of the top WR's in the draft.
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College - THE Ohio State University Buckeyes |
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11181
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: |
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| Maddogg wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
I am not for any scenerio that has Jennings a part of it. I will take Hartline over Jennings right now. I do like Mike Wallace's speed. I like Hartlines route running. I like Bess's hands. I hate Jennings with a passion dude. |
I would not want Jennings either. I believe injury has to be a key concern. Rather than becoming a significant force on offense I see Greg Jennings future with injury attorney commercials, 1-800-HURTWRS. |
This may just be me, but I don't want a guy that isn't known to be a route runner. When i see Mike Wallace, I see a guy who runs limited routes. I'd rather draft somebody than sign him.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | Maddogg wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | My mindset is this. Sign Greg Jennings. He can play right now and then we draft two WR, Patton and Hunter. Greg Jennings fills the role that Donald Driver filled in Green Bay. Jennings can make plays now but at the same time help the young guys develop. |
I am not for any scenerio that has Jennings a part of it. I will take Hartline over Jennings right now. I do like Mike Wallace's speed. I like Hartlines route running. I like Bess's hands. I hate Jennings with a passion dude. |
I would not want Jennings either. I believe injury has to be a key concern. Rather than becoming a significant force on offense I see Greg Jennings future with injury attorney commercials, 1-800-HURTWRS. |
This may just be me, but I don't want a guy that isn't known to be a route runner. When i see Mike Wallace, I see a guy who runs limited routes. I'd rather draft somebody than sign him. |
Actually I thought one of the things Wallace has done is improve as a route runner....he's npt going to be of Jennings and Hartlines level, but he's not completely horrible at it either.
What makes him desirable.....32 touchdowns....if you add Hartline's and Bess's TDs over that time and include Brandon Marshall's for the two years he was here you still only have 26 total TD's...that is 8 more TD's from one guy....
Wallace will do wonders for Hartline (or who ever the Phins have as a number 2) by drawing attention away from them and forcing the opponents to keep a safety over the top.
Wallace is going to be expensive and whatever he gets is going to be seen more then he's worth, but if he comes in and catches 75 passes for 1200 and 10 TD's he will be worth every penny.
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