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Lauren Silberman 1st Female to take part in Regional Combine
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Dubyajay


Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1701
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
mitchconnor wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
broncos67 wrote:


Is she going to require a special locker room? Serious question. You want equal right? Then she should have no problem stripping down with the guys, showering with the guys...it's all equal right?


By that logic, all restrooms should be co-ed too, huh?

I would think there would be a small room somewhere where a female player could change.


I wrestled professionally for 12 years, and depending on the venue, there would often be only one locker/changing room. Many of the women were totally comfortable changing clothes among their male peers. For those who weren't, accomodations could always be made, whether it meant hanging a curtain or simply having the other girls hold up towels to protect the modesty of the one undressing. It's really not a difficult problem to work around if everyone's a grown-up(not saying that everyone would be).


And this is the NFL. I think quite a few guys in the locker room are going to feel weird about it. I know a lot of FF operates in a shiny happy bubble, but let's be real here. If you've ever played a sport and shared a lockerroom you know what goes on in there. It's going to be weird for a lot of people to share a lockerroom in a sport that is 100% men. A sport with no real female equivalent whatsoever. It's going to be awkward. Period. I understand teams will make accomodations, and that will cause tension.

I'm very pro-equality in every way, but this isn't going to happen.


You could change women to blacks in your rant and go back to the 50's and you would fit in quite nicely.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubyajay wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
mitchconnor wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
broncos67 wrote:


Is she going to require a special locker room? Serious question. You want equal right? Then she should have no problem stripping down with the guys, showering with the guys...it's all equal right?


By that logic, all restrooms should be co-ed too, huh?

I would think there would be a small room somewhere where a female player could change.


I wrestled professionally for 12 years, and depending on the venue, there would often be only one locker/changing room. Many of the women were totally comfortable changing clothes among their male peers. For those who weren't, accomodations could always be made, whether it meant hanging a curtain or simply having the other girls hold up towels to protect the modesty of the one undressing. It's really not a difficult problem to work around if everyone's a grown-up(not saying that everyone would be).


And this is the NFL. I think quite a few guys in the locker room are going to feel weird about it. I know a lot of FF operates in a shiny happy bubble, but let's be real here. If you've ever played a sport and shared a lockerroom you know what goes on in there. It's going to be weird for a lot of people to share a lockerroom in a sport that is 100% men. A sport with no real female equivalent whatsoever. It's going to be awkward. Period. I understand teams will make accomodations, and that will cause tension.

I'm very pro-equality in every way, but this isn't going to happen.


You could change women to blacks in your rant and go back to the 50's and you would fit in quite nicely.


Comments like this aren't allowed on FF. We need to keep race and sexual orientation (not you, just a reminder) out of this discussion.
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Bigjoe0075


Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


A 28 year old soccer player. She hasn't even been on a football field before. Never done a football drill. Never wore pads. Why does she get an invite over someone who actually played football in college?
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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Location: Conshohocken
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dubyajay wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
mitchconnor wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
broncos67 wrote:


Is she going to require a special locker room? Serious question. You want equal right? Then she should have no problem stripping down with the guys, showering with the guys...it's all equal right?


By that logic, all restrooms should be co-ed too, huh?

I would think there would be a small room somewhere where a female player could change.


I wrestled professionally for 12 years, and depending on the venue, there would often be only one locker/changing room. Many of the women were totally comfortable changing clothes among their male peers. For those who weren't, accomodations could always be made, whether it meant hanging a curtain or simply having the other girls hold up towels to protect the modesty of the one undressing. It's really not a difficult problem to work around if everyone's a grown-up(not saying that everyone would be).


And this is the NFL. I think quite a few guys in the locker room are going to feel weird about it. I know a lot of FF operates in a shiny happy bubble, but let's be real here. If you've ever played a sport and shared a lockerroom you know what goes on in there. It's going to be weird for a lot of people to share a lockerroom in a sport that is 100% men. A sport with no real female equivalent whatsoever. It's going to be awkward. Period. I understand teams will make accomodations, and that will cause tension.

I'm very pro-equality in every way, but this isn't going to happen.


You could change women to blacks in your rant and go back to the 50's and you would fit in quite nicely.


I'm not a bigot or a sexist so shut the hell up.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
And basically, now you're not only saying that women are equal to men in physical ability on a basketball court, but, in fact, that Cheryl Miller is the greatest basketball player ever, because she beat the best man (ergo could beat any inferior man to Jordan)

Sorry, that doesn't work for me.
Actually, no that's not what he's saying. He simply pointed to an incident that gives some credence that there might be a woman who can at least compete with even elite male athletes. He never said, nor implied, that the best basketball player ever was a woman.


Don't play lawyer with me dude. He brought up, more than once by the way, how good Cheryl Miller was by referencing, of all things, quotes FROM HER BROTHER. The point of bringing her up was to show that she was an elite female athlete, better than most male athletes, and who could compete with ELITE male athletes. After the Reggie Miller claim was shot down, he brought up the Michael Jordan point. Michael Jordan is recognized by just about everyone to be the best basketball player that ever lived. If that's the case, and we're saying how good she was in reference to Jordan, that's implying she's the best. Period.
No it isn't. He was clearly showing that they can compete, as was the discussion. Nowhere in that discussion was the suggestion made that she was the best basketball player in world history. It was posted specifically to point out how an elite talent woman could compete with individuals in the NBA. Twisting the point, which was wholly a rebuttal, to serve as something entirely different is wholly disingenuous.


So why was it necessary to include (the greatest player ever to lace up sneakers) when describing Jordan and the situation in which Cheryl Miller "beat" him?
Because he is? Because it helps further put it in perspective? Further, if one is calling Jordan the best ever, how can they claim someone else is at the same time?

You're twisting an armument to take away from the fundamental core. There are some incredibly gifted female players who can compete in the NBA. Maybe not a ton of them, or even enough to make a team, or even one that can dominate, but there certainly are at least a couple that could be role players.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


A 28 year old soccer player. She hasn't even been on a football field before. Never done a football drill. Never wore pads. Why does she get an invite over someone who actually played football in college?


Why does that matter? If she ends up getting onto an NFL roster it's because she is better than the other options. If she doesn't make a roster then you're getting worked up about the product quality for no reason.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
A 28 year old soccer player. She hasn't even been on a football field before. Never done a football drill. Never wore pads. Why does she get an invite over someone who actually played football in college?
Why did Antonio Gates get to work out in front of NFL teams?
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Dubyajay wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
mitchconnor wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
broncos67 wrote:


Is she going to require a special locker room? Serious question. You want equal right? Then she should have no problem stripping down with the guys, showering with the guys...it's all equal right?


By that logic, all restrooms should be co-ed too, huh?

I would think there would be a small room somewhere where a female player could change.


I wrestled professionally for 12 years, and depending on the venue, there would often be only one locker/changing room. Many of the women were totally comfortable changing clothes among their male peers. For those who weren't, accomodations could always be made, whether it meant hanging a curtain or simply having the other girls hold up towels to protect the modesty of the one undressing. It's really not a difficult problem to work around if everyone's a grown-up(not saying that everyone would be).


And this is the NFL. I think quite a few guys in the locker room are going to feel weird about it. I know a lot of FF operates in a shiny happy bubble, but let's be real here. If you've ever played a sport and shared a lockerroom you know what goes on in there. It's going to be weird for a lot of people to share a lockerroom in a sport that is 100% men. A sport with no real female equivalent whatsoever. It's going to be awkward. Period. I understand teams will make accomodations, and that will cause tension.

I'm very pro-equality in every way, but this isn't going to happen.


You could change women to blacks in your rant and go back to the 50's and you would fit in quite nicely.


I'm not a bigot or a sexist so shut the hell up.


Knock it off guys. I just warned to keep comments like this out of it. The thread won't be open much longer if you keep this up.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Dubyajay wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
mitchconnor wrote:
TheKillerNacho wrote:
broncos67 wrote:


Is she going to require a special locker room? Serious question. You want equal right? Then she should have no problem stripping down with the guys, showering with the guys...it's all equal right?


By that logic, all restrooms should be co-ed too, huh?

I would think there would be a small room somewhere where a female player could change.


I wrestled professionally for 12 years, and depending on the venue, there would often be only one locker/changing room. Many of the women were totally comfortable changing clothes among their male peers. For those who weren't, accomodations could always be made, whether it meant hanging a curtain or simply having the other girls hold up towels to protect the modesty of the one undressing. It's really not a difficult problem to work around if everyone's a grown-up(not saying that everyone would be).


And this is the NFL. I think quite a few guys in the locker room are going to feel weird about it. I know a lot of FF operates in a shiny happy bubble, but let's be real here. If you've ever played a sport and shared a lockerroom you know what goes on in there. It's going to be weird for a lot of people to share a lockerroom in a sport that is 100% men. A sport with no real female equivalent whatsoever. It's going to be awkward. Period. I understand teams will make accomodations, and that will cause tension.

I'm very pro-equality in every way, but this isn't going to happen.


You could change women to blacks in your rant and go back to the 50's and you would fit in quite nicely.


I'm not a bigot or a sexist so shut the hell up.


Knock it off guys. I just warned to keep comments like this out of it. The thread won't be open much longer if you keep this up.


What exactly do I need to knock off? I was of the impression that this site was a "family environment." If someone is allowed to essentially call me both a bigot and a sexist, I believe I'm well within my rights to be offended by that, as would anyone.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
What exactly do I need to knock off? I was of the impression that this site was a "family environment." If someone is allowed to essentially call me both a bigot and a sexist, I believe I'm well within my rights to be offended by that, as would anyone.


Discussion of race isn't allowed. Period.

He was told to stop as well. Both of you were.

If you have more questions, PM me. No need to derail this thread.
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Bigjoe0075


Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


By setting similar rules to women's leagues, (Gender discrimination) Then we insure that women can someday have their own premiere league if they want too.

A 28 year old soccer player. She hasn't even been on a football field before. Never has participated in a football drill. Never even wore pads. (Football ones) Why does she get an invite over someone who actually played football in college?

If this chick makes a team a have zero confidence in whatever FO gave me the approval.

Another point Id like to bring up is the NFL can age discriminate in the case of Javon Clowney but gender isnt an issue. Hypocrisy!
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


By setting similar rules to women's leagues, (Gender discrimination) Then we insure that women can someday have their own premiere league if they want too.
No. You would never get enough support to have a premiere pro-football women's league.

Quote:
If this chick makes a team a have zero confidence in whatever FO gave me the approval.
That's fine, I've never argued she should make an NFL team. Only that she should be able to make an NFL team if she is a better player than whatever other options are out there.

Why shouldn't she get a shot? If you're saying she shouldn't be allowed to try because she probably won't make it, that's ridiculous.

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Another point Id like to bring up is the NFL can age discriminate in the case of Javon Clowney but gender isnt an issue. Hypocrisy!
Completely different topic. Like not even comparable.
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


By setting similar rules to women's leagues, (Gender discrimination) Then we insure that women can someday have their own premiere league if they want too.
No. You would never get enough support to have a premiere pro-football women's league.

Quote:
If this chick makes a team a have zero confidence in whatever FO gave me the approval.
That's fine, I've never argued she should make an NFL team. Only that she should be able to make an NFL team if she is a better player than whatever other options are out there.

Why shouldn't she get a shot? If you're saying she shouldn't be allowed to try because she probably won't make it. That's ridiculous.

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Another point Id like to bring up is the NFL can age discriminate in the case of Javon Clowney but gender isnt an issue. Hypocrisy!
Completely different topic. Like not even comparable.



If the NFL wants to discriminate against a male athlete because he's only 20 and fragile 275lbs. How would a 28 year old 140 lb girl do against the same competition?

Again my point is NO ONE wants to watch women in sports (outside of mud wrestling) whether its in their own league or in a premier league. Its premier for a reason.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Again my point is NO ONE wants to watch women in sports (outside of mud wrestling) whether its in their own league or in a premier league. Its premier for a reason.

don't speak for me. you're wrong.
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tylerdouglass


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Bigjoe0075 wrote:
My point exactly. Women sports isn't fun to watch and takes away from the competition level. Allowing women into the NFL would take away from the best male athletes.


What? If a woman makes a team, it's because the FO feels she is the best option at that position. It's not like they're being forced to sign women to their team.

You're acting like allowing women in the league would lead to a flood of women joining the league. Terrible argument.


By setting similar rules to women's leagues, (Gender discrimination) Then we insure that women can someday have their own premiere league if they want too.
No. You would never get enough support to have a premiere pro-football women's league.

Quote:
If this chick makes a team a have zero confidence in whatever FO gave me the approval.
That's fine, I've never argued she should make an NFL team. Only that she should be able to make an NFL team if she is a better player than whatever other options are out there.

Why shouldn't she get a shot? If you're saying she shouldn't be allowed to try because she probably won't make it. That's ridiculous.

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Another point Id like to bring up is the NFL can age discriminate in the case of Javon Clowney but gender isnt an issue. Hypocrisy!
Completely different topic. Like not even comparable.



If the NFL wants to discriminate against a male athlete because he's only 20 and fragile 275lbs. How would a 28 year old 140 lb girl do against the same competition?
They aren't discriminating Clowney based on his size. You know that. It's a terrible comparison.

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Again my point is NO ONE wants to watch women in sports (outside of mud wrestling) whether its in their own league or in a premier league. Its premier for a reason.
That's a pretty general statement, bud. Plenty of posters on FF have said if she's a good kicker or punter she deserves a shot. Now it seems like you're just making stuff up to support your claims.
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