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Greatest Ravens #6
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#6 Greatest Raven
Peter Boulware
21%
 21%  [ 6 ]
Haloti Ngata
21%
 21%  [ 6 ]
Jamal Lewis
17%
 17%  [ 5 ]
Ray Rice
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Todd Heap
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Matt Stover
28%
 28%  [ 8 ]
Derrick Mason
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Chris McAlister
10%
 10%  [ 3 ]
Jermaine Lewis
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Michael McCrary
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Other
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 28

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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 9108
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Greatest Ravens #6 Reply with quote

So, the list as it currently stands:
1. Ray
2a. JO
2b. Reed

4. Suggs
5. Joseph Vincent Flacco

I have included the top 10 guys that I imagine could be argued for in the poll, but if for any number 'Other' receives a significant portion of the vote, then I will start a new poll including the 'other' answer(s) as well as a few of the top vote-getters.

Note: Let's keep this to their Ravens contributions. So, a guy like Rod Woodson would be considered for the years he played in Bmore, not Pitt or Oak.

Peter Boulware
Statistics
126 GP / 102 GS, 295 Tackles, 1 INT/ 6 yards/ 0 TD, 70 Sacks, 14 FF/ 5 FR/ O TD
Post-season Statistics
6 GP, 0 Tackles (I think this must be a fluke), 3 Sacks
Accolades/Leaderboards
4x Probowler
1x Second-team All-Pro
1997 Defensive Rookie of the Year


Haloti Ngata
Statistics
109 GP / 106 GS, 242 tackles, 3 INT/ 68 yards/ 0 TD, 22 Sacks. 4 FF/ 5 FR/ 1 TD
Post-season Statistics
13 GP, 29 Tackles, 2.5 Sacks
Accolades/Leaderboards
4x Probowler
2x First-Team All-pro
2x Second-Team All-pro


Jamal Lewis
Statistics
91 GP / 88 GS, 1,822 rushes/ 7,801 yards/ 4.3 YPC/ 45 TD, 160 Receptions/ 1,365 yards/ 2 TD
Post-season Statistics
6 GP, 130 Rushes/ 426 Yards/ 3.3 YPC/ 4 TD, 6 Receptions/ 32 Yards/ 0 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
1x Probowler
1x First-Team All-Pro
2003 Offensive Player of the Year
Holds the #3 most prolific rushing season of all-time (2003)
Second-Team All-Decade Team (2000's)


Ray Rice
Statistics
77 GP / 65 GS, 1,216 rushes/ 5,520 yards/ 4.5 ypc/ 33 TD, 311 Receptions/ 2,713 yards/ 6 TD
Post-season Statistics
11 GP, 191 rushes/ 750 yards/ 3.9 ypc/ 5 TD, 37 Receptions/ 296 yards/ 1 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
3x Probowler
2x Second-Team All-Pro


Todd Heap
Statistics
133 GP / 128 GS, 467 receptions/ 5,492 yards/ 11.8 ypc/ 41 TD
Post-season Statistics
11 GP, 32 receptions/ 385 yards/ 12 ypc/ 2 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
2x Probowler
1x Second-Team All-Pro


Matt Stover
Statistics
207 GP, 418 FGA/ 354 FGM/ 85.7% FG %, 403 XPA/ 402 XPM/ 99.8% XP %, 1,464 points
Post-season Statistics
11 GP, 19 FGA/ 16 FGM/ 84.3% FG %, 70 points
Accolades/Leaderboards
1x Probowler
1x First-Team All-Pro
1x Second-Team All-Pro


Derrick Mason
Statistics
96 GP / 94 GS, 471 Receptions/ 5,777 yards/ 12.3 ypc/ 29 TD
Post-season Statistics
6 GP, 19 Receptions/ 278 yards/ 14.6 ypc/ 1 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
All-Time Ravens Leader in Receptions/Yards

Chris McAlister
Statistics
135 GP / 127 GS, 382 Tackles, 26 INT/ 486 yards/ 5 TD, 0 Sacks, 1 FF/ 7 FR/ 1 TD
Post-season Statistics
8 GP, 3 INT/ 22 yards/ 0 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
3x Probowler
1x First-Team All-Pro
1x Second-Team All-Pro


Jermaine Lewis
Statistics
88 GP / 30 GS, 136 Receptions/ 1,984 Yards/ 14.9 YPC/ 16 TD, 231 PR/ 2,730 Yards/ 6 TD, 139 KR/ 3,153 Yards/ 0 TD
Post-season Statistics
6 GP, 5 Receptions/ 42 Yards/ 8.4 YPC/ 0 TD, 16 PR/ 224 Yards/ 1 TD, 11 KR/ 293 Yards/ 1 TD
Accolades/Leaderboards
2x Probowler
1x First-Team All-Pro
1x Second-Team All-Pro


Michael McCrary
Statistics
78 GP / 75 GS, 238 Tackles, 1 INT/ 1 yards/ 0 TD, 51 Sacks, 4 FF/ 6 FR/ 0 TD
Post-season Statistics
4 GP, 0 Tackles (I think this must be a fluke), 6 Sacks
Accolades/Leaderboards
2x Probowler

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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going back and forth between Stover, Boulware and Lewis on this one.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll go with the guy who is/was clearly the best player relative to others at his position: Ngata. He's been at least top 3 at his position his entire career, and it's a pretty important position.

But, this list already became more popularity contest than serious football analysis so I guess Stover will win.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to go with Jamal.

BTW, there's some important accomplishments you left out for Mason such as, Baltimore Ravens all-time leading receiver, All-Pro, 2 Pro Bowl
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BareYourTeeth wrote:
I'm going to go with Jamal.

BTW, there's some important accomplishments you left out for Mason such as, Baltimore Ravens all-time leading receiver, All-Pro, 2 Pro Bowl


I initially was a little hesitant to include all-time Ravens leader in x because most of these guys probably will be, at least to start with.

The probowls happened with other teams, so I did not include them. All numbers are only those compiled while a member of the Baltimore Ravens.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
I'll go with the guy who is/was clearly the best player relative to others at his position: Ngata. He's been at least top 3 at his position his entire career, and it's a pretty important position.

But, this list already became more popularity contest than serious football analysis so I guess Stover will win.


Then add some instead of sounding sour about it. Very Happy
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
I'll go with the guy who is/was clearly the best player relative to others at his position: Ngata. He's been at least top 3 at his position his entire career, and it's a pretty important position.

But, this list already became more popularity contest than serious football analysis so I guess Stover will win.


Then add some instead of sounding sour about it. Very Happy


Sure. I'll stick to where we are at now.

Matt Stover was a very impressive 84.7% FG kicker in 13 years with Baltimore. The nfl average has been somewhere between 81-82%. So on Stover's 32 attempts a season, you're looking at about 1 extra FG made over the average kicker a year. So Stover's impact is 3 points a year or less than 0.2 points a game.

There are game-changing all-pro defenders, and workhorse RB's who carried offenses, along with other key players on this list. Saying a kicker had a greater contribution than any of them is ridiculous, even if he played for us 2 or 3 times longer than they did.

[sour voice]Stover leading this poll is clearly not based on football impact, so people are voting popularity here[/sour voice]
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
I'll go with the guy who is/was clearly the best player relative to others at his position: Ngata. He's been at least top 3 at his position his entire career, and it's a pretty important position.

But, this list already became more popularity contest than serious football analysis so I guess Stover will win.


Then add some instead of sounding sour about it. Very Happy


Sure. I'll stick to where we are at now.

Matt Stover was a very impressive 84.7% FG kicker in 13 years with Baltimore. The nfl average has been somewhere between 81-82%. So on Stover's 32 attempts a season, you're looking at about 1 extra FG made over the average kicker a year. So Stover's impact is 3 points a year or less than 0.2 points a game.

There are game-changing all-pro defenders, and workhorse RB's who carried offenses, along with other key players on this list. Saying a kicker had a greater contribution than any of them is ridiculous, even if he played for us 2 or 3 times longer than they did.

[sour voice]Stover leading this poll is clearly not based on football impact, so people are voting popularity here[/sour voice]


And I would agree. Personally on this poll I voted Jamal Lewis. He was instrumental to our first SB squad in 2000 having at least a somewhat competent offense. Before time in jail and injuries derailed his career somewhat, he was looking like a potential great. He was an incredibly rare combo of power and speed.

If I'm not mistaken he's still the franchise leader in TD's.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted for Chris McAlister earlier. I also had this awesome post that I wrote on my phone, but then McDonald's stupid WIFI (the worst wifi I've ever dealt with) ate my post before asking me to sign back onto the network that I'd just signed onto like 10 minutes earlier... I was so pissed.

Anyway, my post in summary went something like:

I'm stuck on three names as well: Haloti Ngata, Peter Boulware, and Chris McAlister.

I think all of the players suffered through something that has kept their careers from truly being taken to the next level. Ngata and Boulware both were effected by injuries, Boulware's playing career being shortened and Ngata being much less dominant with this recent string of durability issues.

Ngata also started his career off pretty slowly in comparison to the other two guys. Ngata came in as a really good run stopper, but didn't offer much of a pass rushing threat. His earlier self also had a limited snap count because his endurance wasn't very good... and thus reduced his overall impact on the game. It wasn't until about his 3rd years in the league where Ngata really began to start taking off (the year he was underrated). But Ngata just isn't consistently dominant enough. Had he been able to maintain his dominance over these past couple seasons without injuries I think he'd be #6 and perhaps even #4. But he hasn't been able to, he continues to get hurt and suffer ailments and it effects his play.

Boulware was a special talent as well, but I think I'd take the peaks of the other two players over Boulwares. Like McAlister I thought Boulware came in and had success right away, he didn't take awhile to get going. But between injuries and what I feel like is an inferior peak to the other two players, he just doesn't have a strong enough claim for this spot.

So by process of elimination I just have to go with Chris McAlister here. A lot of talk recently has been giving to this notion of the shutdown 'island' corner. And they're given a lot of leverage now-a-days with regards to not accumulating high amounts of interceptions because QBs 'don't throw their way'. Well Chris McAlister was no different than Sherman, Aso, Revis in that he was a guy that you put on an island. It's only because the NY media hyped Revis along with other media groups hyping up Scrabble so they could sound 'more informed' And then ESPN hyped up both and constantly compared the two. McAlister was the lockdown, few interceptions type of the previous generation. That being said, when McAlister got his hands on the ball between his size, speed, agility, etc... he was an absolute playmaker. And when I include his decent length career with the team, his quick start to effectiveness, and his overall consistency of dominance... I think he really wins this round. Webb is a beast, but McAlister at his peak was on a whole other level. He was a headcase and that was his biggest flaw, but he was incredibly gifted and too good to pass up here IMO.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went with Lewis. Boulware and Ngata next. Then McAllister.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Lewis had too few years of prime ability. He got worn out after the many caries to start his career and then he went out with like 3 years of pitter-patter at the LOS not knowing where he wanted to go. And even then, I'd much rather take a lockdown corner or a dominant E/IT over a pure RB. Lewis also wasn't much of a receiver.

And Lewis NEEDED an I-back set to play IIRC. He got upset when we ran singleback sets. A great player wouldn't care much because he'd insist that he could run through a brick wall if needed.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
I voted for Chris McAlister earlier. I also had this awesome post that I wrote on my phone, but then McDonald's stupid WIFI (the worst wifi I've ever dealt with) ate my post before asking me to sign back onto the network that I'd just signed onto like 10 minutes earlier... I was so pissed.

Anyway, my post in summary went something like:

I'm stuck on three names as well: Haloti Ngata, Peter Boulware, and Chris McAlister.

I think all of the players suffered through something that has kept their careers from truly being taken to the next level. Ngata and Boulware both were effected by injuries, Boulware's playing career being shortened and Ngata being much less dominant with this recent string of durability issues.

Ngata also started his career off pretty slowly in comparison to the other two guys. Ngata came in as a really good run stopper, but didn't offer much of a pass rushing threat. His earlier self also had a limited snap count because his endurance wasn't very good... and thus reduced his overall impact on the game. It wasn't until about his 3rd years in the league where Ngata really began to start taking off (the year he was underrated). But Ngata just isn't consistently dominant enough. Had he been able to maintain his dominance over these past couple seasons without injuries I think he'd be #6 and perhaps even #4. But he hasn't been able to, he continues to get hurt and suffer ailments and it effects his play.

Boulware was a special talent as well, but I think I'd take the peaks of the other two players over Boulwares. Like McAlister I thought Boulware came in and had success right away, he didn't take awhile to get going. But between injuries and what I feel like is an inferior peak to the other two players, he just doesn't have a strong enough claim for this spot.

So by process of elimination I just have to go with Chris McAlister here. A lot of talk recently has been giving to this notion of the shutdown 'island' corner. And they're given a lot of leverage now-a-days with regards to not accumulating high amounts of interceptions because QBs 'don't throw their way'. Well Chris McAlister was no different than Sherman, Aso, Revis in that he was a guy that you put on an island. It's only because the NY media hyped Revis along with other media groups hyping up Scrabble so they could sound 'more informed' And then ESPN hyped up both and constantly compared the two. McAlister was the lockdown, few interceptions type of the previous generation. That being said, when McAlister got his hands on the ball between his size, speed, agility, etc... he was an absolute playmaker. And when I include his decent length career with the team, his quick start to effectiveness, and his overall consistency of dominance... I think he really wins this round. Webb is a beast, but McAlister at his peak was on a whole other level. He was a headcase and that was his biggest flaw, but he was incredibly gifted and too good to pass up here IMO.


This (FG return) will probably always the most remembered McAlister play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLZN0CabW6s

What I was really looking for was his fumble recovery in 2006 (i think it was 2006), where he completely straightened out his body from kind of falling out of bounds to ensure that he established possession. One of the most athletic plays I have ever seen. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please let me know.

EDIT - You can see Rex in the background toward the very end of the video LOL
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:

What I was really looking for was his fumble recovery in 2006 (i think it was 2006), where he completely straightened out his body from kind of falling out of bounds to ensure that he established possession. One of the most athletic plays I have ever seen. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please let me know.


Pretty sure it happened in that Monday night game against Denver but I could be wrong.

EDIT: To avoid confusion, the Monday night game in 06. Not the one in 02 with the FG return.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Yup, the dude was a playmaker. And honestly because he was a bit of a headcase, I think he will go down as one of the more underrated talents that we've had the pleasure of fielding on our defense.

But man, the guy could ball. And one more thing. I also went off on a tangent in my previous post about just how awesome our All Time secondary would be: McAlister, Reed, Pollard, Webb... the only thing that I couldn't figure out is who would be our #3 corner. I listed most of our corners that I could think of over the past decade or so, but came away thinking it would be either Duane Starks or Josh Wilson... and I like Wilson even if he was only here for one season. He was also versatile. Between he and Webb we could have either of them be a really good slot corner and also have the ability to match up on the boundary.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:

This (FG return) will probably always the most remembered McAlister play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLZN0CabW6s

What I was really looking for was his fumble recovery in 2006 (i think it was 2006), where he completely straightened out his body from kind of falling out of bounds to ensure that he established possession. One of the most athletic plays I have ever seen. If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please let me know.

EDIT - You can see Rex in the background toward the very end of the video LOL

I believe this is the clip you were referring to?
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