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Go_Ravens2
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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 Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:58 pm Post subject: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second? |
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So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick?
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'm probably taking Minter in all honesty. I think he's the best ILB in the draft.
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alfalcone
Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 968
Location: Brother Jimmy's
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick? |
Ogletree, he is by no means a finished product, but when all is said and done he will be the best in the draft. |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| alfalcone wrote: | | Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick? |
Ogletree, he is by no means a finished product, but when all is said and done he will be the best in the draft. |
Disagree. He's #5 for me even with ignoring his character issues. Including his character issues he's a 3rd round or later prospect to me.
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 5873
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | I'm probably taking Minter in all honesty. I think he's the best ILB in the draft. |
Yeah I would hope Baltimore takes Minter in that situation. Waiting until later is risky even if the draft is deep at that position. |
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Go_Ravens2
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 1819
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | alfalcone wrote: | | Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick? |
Ogletree, he is by no means a finished product, but when all is said and done he will be the best in the draft. |
Disagree. He's #5 for me even with ignoring his character issues. Including his character issues he's a 3rd round or later prospect to me. |
Everything I see online (not my own opinion, just what I've seen online) has Ogletree being the first ILB taken, given that was before his DUI. Is there a reason you have him so low?
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | alfalcone wrote: | | Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick? |
Ogletree, he is by no means a finished product, but when all is said and done he will be the best in the draft. |
Disagree. He's #5 for me even with ignoring his character issues. Including his character issues he's a 3rd round or later prospect to me. |
Everything I see online (not my own opinion, just what I've seen online) has Ogletree being the first ILB taken, given that was before his DUI. Is there a reason you have him so low? |
Don't like his instincts for the position. He's good in space due to being a former safety, but to me that's what he looks like -- a big safety playing linebacker, rather than a linebacker with the coverage skills of a safety. I question his ability to shed blocks in the NFL too. And that's just the football side of things -- he has character issues including misdemeanor theft, suspended for team rules violation and now the DUI. Football wise alone I think he's a mid-2nd round kind of guy because he has potential, just not as polished as I'd like but character wise he's not more than a 3rd round prospect to me.
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Go_Ravens2
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | alfalcone wrote: | | Go_Ravens2 wrote: | | So let's say we are at pick #32 and one of Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, or even Alec Ogletree are there, but so is Arthur Brown. Would you prefer taking one of those guys in the first or trade back into the early second and hopefully be able to get Brown while securing an additional ~4th round pick? |
Ogletree, he is by no means a finished product, but when all is said and done he will be the best in the draft. |
Disagree. He's #5 for me even with ignoring his character issues. Including his character issues he's a 3rd round or later prospect to me. |
Everything I see online (not my own opinion, just what I've seen online) has Ogletree being the first ILB taken, given that was before his DUI. Is there a reason you have him so low? |
Don't like his instincts for the position. He's good in space due to being a former safety, but to me that's what he looks like -- a big safety playing linebacker, rather than a linebacker with the coverage skills of a safety. I question his ability to shed blocks in the NFL too. And that's just the football side of things -- he has character issues including misdemeanor theft, suspended for team rules violation and now the DUI. Football wise alone I think he's a mid-2nd round kind of guy because he has potential, just not as polished as I'd like but character wise he's not more than a 3rd round prospect to me. |
I'm just beginning my film study of him and from his game against UK I completely agree. Film is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5o8baSlyfRA . He doesn't look anything close to a mid first rounder like I've seen in many mocks. Given that is just one game and there is still a lot to do, but I was not impressed. Whenever someone blocked him, he was eliminated from the play, could not shed them at all. He looked like an average blitzer off the edge but couldn't get much done up the middle. He also had no instincts whatsoever. He was always a second too late because of this. He also just didn't look like an aggressive player. When someone else began to wrap up the ball carrier he would just sit there instead of helping to make the tackle. We saw this year what can happen with lazy tackling. I'm going to keep watching more, but this didn't look great to me.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Te'o/Minter/Ogletree in the first or Brown in the second |
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| Go_Ravens2 wrote: |
I'm just beginning my film study of him and from his game against UK I completely agree. Film is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5o8baSlyfRA . He doesn't look anything close to a mid first rounder like I've seen in many mocks. Given that is just one game and there is still a lot to do, but I was not impressed. Whenever someone blocked him, he was eliminated from the play, could not shed them at all. He looked like an average blitzer off the edge but couldn't get much done up the middle. He also had no instincts whatsoever. He was always a second too late because of this. He also just didn't look like an aggressive player. When someone else began to wrap up the ball carrier he would just sit there instead of helping to make the tackle. We saw this year what can happen with lazy tackling. I'm going to keep watching more, but this didn't look great to me. |
Yup... and the tape don't lie.
I've been saying since the start of this past season that I didn't like Ogletree and nothing has changed. He has no instincts for the position. I have him as my 7th ranked ILB in this class behind:
1a. Brown
1b. Minter
3a. Te'O
3b. Greene
5. Klein
6. Hodges
And honestly I just find it funny how anyone could have Ogletree ranked above Arthur Brown at this point. The only benefits that 'Tree brings to the table are his coverage skills and his speed- Brown looks a decent bit faster than 'Tree on tape... and the coverage skills wasn't much of a difference IMO.
Honestly, the dude has played the position for just as long as Khaseem Greene basically and he has two less Conference DPOYs to his credit. Ogletree is only so high because he's fast (when he can actually read the play), he's very good in coverage, and he's a tackle-whore- only he makes his tackles consistently 3-5 yards downfield and not for -1 to 3yds. I just can't understand the idea of 'projecting' greatness upon a player who clearly has never achieved a level that should make one believe it will happen. Especially over players who are comparably athletic and clearly better players. Blows my mind tbqh. But honestly, I hope Ogletree goes in the first round... preferably to a division rival of ours. I see dud written all over him.
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Go_Ravens2
Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d-nVqffyWUo#!
Noticed the same problems in this film. He is extremely fast and athletic so he makes some flashy plays but he doesn't seem very reliable. His tackling form is bad as he usually just tries to slam players down instead of wrapping up.
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Go_Ravens2 wrote: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d-nVqffyWUo#!
Noticed the same problems in this film. He is extremely fast and athletic so he makes some flashy plays but he doesn't seem very reliable. His tackling form is bad as he usually just tries to slam players down instead of wrapping up. |
That's part of the problem with him -- he just isn't fundamentally sound as a LB. He takes bad angles and doesn't have a strong feel for the position, but his athleticism and speed allows him to make up for it in college. In the pros, he's going to have to correct this and really work at becoming more natural at the position because his speed and athleticsm isn't going to cover up those negatives nearly as well.
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drd23
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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If there was somehow a guarantee that Brown was still available after we traded down then I'd take him, otherwise I'd just take Minter at #32
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dcarey20
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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Don't understand the Ogletree hate outside of the character concerns.
1.) Ogletree
2.) Teo
3.) Minter |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Parkville, MD
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarey20 wrote: | Don't understand the Ogletree hate outside of the character concerns.
1.) Ogletree
2.) Teo
3.) Minter |
What makes you rank those two over Minter? Just curious.
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BareYourTeeth
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I don't agree with that list, but that is how draft experts such as Kiper and Mayock have them ranked, ATM.
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