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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do our T-Wolf fans think of Kevin Garnett being traded?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
What do our T-Wolf fans think of Kevin Garnett being traded?


NBA trades are so damn bizarre. I simply wouldnt be able to understand, its like they are all creating Madden like trades.
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CriminalMind


Joined: 25 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a mod on a popular NBA board, i think its a great move by Boston.
They acquired KG/Ray and got a chip once the lotto balls didnt bounce their way. And now moved those aging pieces for a rebuilding package. They set themselves to dive to the bottom of the standings, and leap frog teams finishing 6-8 this years, Wiz, Bucks, Raps etc in the next year.

In the NBA the right one player can impact the organization more then QB in NFL.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
As a mod on a popular NBA board, i think its a great move by Boston.
They acquired KG/Ray and got a chip once the lotto balls didnt bounce their way. And now moved those aging pieces for a rebuilding package. They set themselves to dive to the bottom of the standings, and leap frog teams finishing 6-8 this years, Wiz, Bucks, Raps etc in the next year.

In the NBA the right one player can impact the organization more then QB in NFL.


I have perceived basketball as being more of an individual sport then a team sport. Probably more so then any professional sport out there. One HOF player basically mean your contending somewhat regularly. I guess that is why we see these trades, any team can essentially become a contender if they are willing to move tons of picks and cash.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the most individual team sport that is widely followed in North America.
If ur in the middle u need to get out, either sell assets to bring a star to go into contender status or sell assets to go to the bottom of the standings and sell "culture development".

Boston kept their best asset in Rondo, and they will look to pair Rondo with their expected nice 2014 pick (deep draft at the top 1-7), then they have lots of developing young-uns.

Strategic tanking is done by management in terms of sitting players out due to injury, distributing minutes to young players over veterns, and making these kinds of trades. Players dont tank, management do. GM needs to give the coach a secure contract for the coach to be on board, else the GM needs to gut the roster as best he can n the coach is a lame duck out their
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Its the most individual team sport that is widely followed in North America.
If ur in the middle u need to get out, either sell assets to bring a star to go into contender status or sell assets to go to the bottom of the standings and sell "culture development".

Boston kept their best asset in Rondo, and they will look to pair Rondo with their expected nice 2014 pick (deep draft at the top 1-7), then they have lots of developing young-uns.

Strategic tanking is done by management in terms of sitting players out due to injury, distributing minutes to young players over veterns, and making these kinds of trades. Players dont tank, management do. GM needs to give the coach a secure contract for the coach to be on board, else the GM needs to gut the roster as best he can n the coach is a lame duck out their


Seems like the strategy of tanking for a top pick in the NBA is much more viable then the NFL, simply because you can ship off great players much easier then you can in the NFL. I would guess this is why the NBA has a draft lottery and the NFL doesnt.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only way to get rid of tanking in the NBA is for all none playoff teams to have an equal shot in the lottery, and draw about 7 spots. And the final 7 spots determined by the remaining season stamdings.

Your either buying (win now & giving future picks) or selling (rebuilding & giving away current talent).

Also the fact that there is only 2 rounds of draft in the NBA is important to note. 2nd round picks typically 90% barely play. In the first round maybe 25 get a 2nd contract. You want to be in the top 6 drafting if your not a contender.

In a 4 game series, underdogs barely have a chance. Talent wins out in the end, and game strategy cant play a huge factor like in the NFL.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
As a mod on a popular NBA board, i think its a great move by Boston.


As another mod on I think the same popular NBA board, I agree.
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AQuintus


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
The only way to get rid of tanking in the NBA is for all none playoff teams to have an equal shot in the lottery, and draw about 7 spots. And the final 7 spots determined by the remaining season stamdings.


That would be horrible. One of the worst things about the NBA is seeing borderline playoff teams like the Bulls get the 1st overall pick while perennial losers (Kings, Raptors, Wolves, etc) continue to suck.

The best thing to do would be to treat it like the NFL draft. The worst team gets the highest pick. If you're willing to tank, losing fan support and ticket sales, then at least it will only be for one year, since that number 1 pick should be reasonably expected to improve your team after that.

The NBA desperately needs more parity, and the draft lotto is actively working against that.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
As a mod on a popular NBA board, i think its a great move by Boston.


As another mod on I think the same popular NBA board, I agree.

oooh, this sounds interesting...
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
The only way to get rid of tanking in the NBA is for all none playoff teams to have an equal shot in the lottery, and draw about 7 spots. And the final 7 spots determined by the remaining season stamdings.


That would be horrible. One of the worst things about the NBA is seeing borderline playoff teams like the Bulls get the 1st overall pick while perennial losers (Kings, Raptors, Wolves, etc) continue to suck.

The best thing to do would be to treat it like the NFL draft. The worst team gets the highest pick. If you're willing to tank, losing fan support and ticket sales, then at least it will only be for one year, since that number 1 pick should be reasonably expected to improve your team after that.

The NBA desperately needs more parity, and the draft lotto is actively working against that.


This is the massive downside to having the draft fully determined soley on record. Half the league will try and tank in the offseason, selling assets. There is no downside risk anymore. If your 5th worse, you get the 5th best pick. The way it is now, the 5th worse record could pick 1/2/3/5/6/7/8.

Even more superteams will be created. There will be 8-10 teams with piles of talent, and 10 teams trying to gut. After Xmas, half the league is trying to lose games, with their GMs moving talent to teams in the upper echelon.

Trades barely happen mid season in the NFL, so NFL teams can't really tank. On top of that these 53 players in NFL rosters and 1/4 of that in the NBA. The impact is magnified in the NBA. One player can play 90% of an entire game in the NBA and 17% of his entire team minutes, whereas the best QB in the NFL plays about 3-4% of his teams totals minutes.

Another thing I would like to see is, having the lottery at 12PM, 7 hours before the actual draft (7PM). Really turns things on their sides and that would mean that prospects need to be viewed by all teams, and scouting will play a better role.

Gotta think what is worse having a Bulls (or any other 10th or 9th) place team win the lottery every so often, or eliminate the vast benefit of tanking altogether? ... The product on TV will increase, less superteams, more parity among all teams, and you wont have ppl yelling, what the hell you traded one of the top 30 players in the league for a draft pick 2 years from now, as an example. A team will always be trying to win, and you wont have fan bases split, half wanting to tank and half wanting to win.

VD - not as interesting as it seems, me and Klomp support different teams, but we're both been on building ones.
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
Its the most individual team sport that is widely followed in North America.
If ur in the middle u need to get out, either sell assets to bring a star to go into contender status or sell assets to go to the bottom of the standings and sell "culture development".

Boston kept their best asset in Rondo, and they will look to pair Rondo with their expected nice 2014 pick (deep draft at the top 1-7), then they have lots of developing young-uns.

Strategic tanking is done by management in terms of sitting players out due to injury, distributing minutes to young players over veterns, and making these kinds of trades. Players dont tank, management do. GM needs to give the coach a secure contract for the coach to be on board, else the GM needs to gut the roster as best he can n the coach is a lame duck out their


Seems like the strategy of tanking for a top pick in the NBA is much more viable then the NFL, simply because you can ship off great players much easier then you can in the NFL. I would guess this is why the NBA has a draft lottery and the NFL doesnt.


Oddly that isn't true, the ability to trade players in the NBA is equally as difficult as in the NFL if not more difficult with the NBA's odd cap constraints and how many players making x dollars can dance in a certain way on a given team at a time, or something like that. It makes no sense, but they are extremely sticklers about the money matching up correctly, whereas the NFL, sure there is a signing bonus issue and accelerating money forward if you trade a player, but there are fewer league placed constraints.
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disaacs


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
Its the most individual team sport that is widely followed in North America.
If ur in the middle u need to get out, either sell assets to bring a star to go into contender status or sell assets to go to the bottom of the standings and sell "culture development".


While one single individual can significantly impact a team in the NBA, unless there are multiple good players on the team, the team won't be all that successful long-term nor will they likely win a title . The best examples of that in recent history are the Timberwolves with Garnett and the Cavs with LeBron James (or if you go further back, the Bulls with Jordan, pre-Pippen). It's an unfortunate circumstance of the game...and it's also why the NBA can only make it so far in popularity.

I really haven't followed the NBA all that much since Magic Johnson retired. To me, Jordan ruined the league more than he helped it, because he made it more individualistic than it ever should be. But, there are still good examples on occasion of how I used to enjoy watching the NBA...most notably the Spurs.

As far as the tanking issue, I don't know if it's all that relevant any longer. While I know it won't go away, I wish they could do away with the lottery, because it's become pointless to me. The LeBron James' at the top of the draft come along only once in a generation, so why is the lottery system that necessary? It's pretty much a crapshoot at the top of the draft almost every year now, and there's no guarantee that the player(s) taken at the top are going to be all that successful or change around a franchise.

The Cavs took Kyrie Irving 2 years ago, they still were bad enough to get the #1 pick this year. The Hornets/Pelicans took Anthony Davis #1 last year...that garnered them a whole 6 more wins. The Wizards haven't gotten much better since drafting Wall. It's more about who they draft and develop now than where they selected him. To me, the lottery is irrelevant now. It served its' purpose, it should now go away. If there is a team that is clearly tanking to try to get the #1 pick, they should handle them some other way, either penalizing them cap-wise, or some other manner other than using the lottery to try to prevent it.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gnat wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
Its the most individual team sport that is widely followed in North America.
If ur in the middle u need to get out, either sell assets to bring a star to go into contender status or sell assets to go to the bottom of the standings and sell "culture development".

Boston kept their best asset in Rondo, and they will look to pair Rondo with their expected nice 2014 pick (deep draft at the top 1-7), then they have lots of developing young-uns.

Strategic tanking is done by management in terms of sitting players out due to injury, distributing minutes to young players over veterns, and making these kinds of trades. Players dont tank, management do. GM needs to give the coach a secure contract for the coach to be on board, else the GM needs to gut the roster as best he can n the coach is a lame duck out their


Seems like the strategy of tanking for a top pick in the NBA is much more viable then the NFL, simply because you can ship off great players much easier then you can in the NFL. I would guess this is why the NBA has a draft lottery and the NFL doesnt.


Oddly that isn't true, the ability to trade players in the NBA is equally as difficult as in the NFL if not more difficult with the NBA's odd cap constraints and how many players making x dollars can dance in a certain way on a given team at a time, or something like that. It makes no sense, but they are extremely sticklers about the money matching up correctly, whereas the NFL, sure there is a signing bonus issue and accelerating money forward if you trade a player, but there are fewer league placed constraints.


Not always, it depends on whether a team has "real" cap space. If they do they can absorb the contracts in lopsided ways and take back much higher salaries in trades. All whether a team is above or below the luxery tax line impact the rules of trading, as in there is a different set of rules.

In the recent TOR/NY trade, their salarys need to be within 125% + 100K because NY is a tax paying team, whereas if NY was not a tax paying team it would be 150% + 100K (easier). If NY had "real" cap space they could simply absorb the higher difference of the contract without matching salary to these quotas
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the Twins are 11-4 in Saturday games this season, they're 1-13 in Friday games.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_23700515/charley-walters-matt-birk-is-back-helping-vikings
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