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What's up with all the ILB's in mock drafts?
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
Posts: 3297
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would jump at Ogletree at #26 (IMO, he doesn't get past the Bengals), but I would pass on everybody else. Minter I don't think is that much better than Bishop (and putting Bishop 2.0 next to Bishop is worse than having a player who complements Bishop) and Te'o has all the same flaws that Hawk does.

I could see TT maybe taking Arthur Brown if he trades back into the top of the second, though, but I'm not in love with the idea.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justo wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
justo wrote:
You didn't hear? Bishop is going to get hurt again and we are cutting Hawk, to save a couple million. We need two new ILBs. Toughness. Also our DBs suck at tackling. We need to look at tackle first DBs. Maybe draft four SSs. Toughness. All in the box type guys. Also Raji sucks. Trade him. Pickett is old. We need three new DL too. New defense. Fire Capers. Toughness.


Or we want to upgrade Hawk and consider our future with some prudence.
The guys most people have mocking at ILB aren't the type of guys going into Hawk's role. They are the ones going into Bishops. I don't think anyone has a shot to replace him till 2015.


You way overthink this "role" thing. Guys are football players and adapt.

Ironically, Hawk would be a prime example of that.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I would jump at Ogletree at #26 (IMO, he doesn't get past the Bengals), but I would pass on everybody else. Minter I don't think is that much better than Bishop (and putting Bishop 2.0 next to Bishop is worse than having a player who complements Bishop) and Te'o has all the same flaws that Hawk does.

I could see TT maybe taking Arthur Brown if he trades back into the top of the second, though, but I'm not in love with the idea.


Minter is a more athletic version of Bishop at this point. I'd love to see those two together.

Ogletree, though. My lord, what I would do to see him in our defense Shocked

If there's one guy, realistically, that I would want in this draft: it's him.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I would jump at Ogletree at #26 (IMO, he doesn't get past the Bengals), but I would pass on everybody else. Minter I don't think is that much better than Bishop (and putting Bishop 2.0 next to Bishop is worse than having a player who complements Bishop) and Te'o has all the same flaws that Hawk does.

I could see TT maybe taking Arthur Brown if he trades back into the top of the second, though, but I'm not in love with the idea.


Minter is a more athletic version of Bishop at this point. I'd love to see those two together.

Ogletree, though. My lord, what I would do to see him in our defense :shock:

If there's one guy, realistically, that I would want in this draft: it's him.


While Minter could probably play next to Bishop, I think spending a first round pick on that upgrade would improve the team significantly less than taking a slot-appropriate player at a variety of other positions (FS, DL, maybe even RB.)

Ogletree's the only ILB I want out of the first round guys, but he's not falling that far.
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chillparsi1


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the other thing that is largely playing into the number of ILBs is where we are drafting. Non pass-rushing LBs are one of the "lower" value positions in the NFL so its not uncommon to see a slight disconnect between where they fall on the big boards and where they get draft. So picking this far back there's a good chance that a quality talent will be available. Then you add in that there are 3 ILBs that could go round 1 (Ogletree, Minter, Te'o) so it's like we'd be able to get one for sure.

In terms of need, I think our starters are serviceable but upgradable. If TT sees the chance to make a position better, he will.

On a different note, does Ogletree have character concerns? I've kind of just heard grumblings, nothing concrete.
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PossibleCabbage wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I would jump at Ogletree at #26 (IMO, he doesn't get past the Bengals), but I would pass on everybody else. Minter I don't think is that much better than Bishop (and putting Bishop 2.0 next to Bishop is worse than having a player who complements Bishop) and Te'o has all the same flaws that Hawk does.

I could see TT maybe taking Arthur Brown if he trades back into the top of the second, though, but I'm not in love with the idea.


Minter is a more athletic version of Bishop at this point. I'd love to see those two together.

Ogletree, though. My lord, what I would do to see him in our defense Shocked

If there's one guy, realistically, that I would want in this draft: it's him.


While Minter could probably play next to Bishop, I think spending a first round pick on that upgrade would improve the team significantly less than taking a slot-appropriate player at a variety of other positions (FS, DL, maybe even RB.)

Ogletree's the only ILB I want out of the first round guys, but he's not falling that far.


I see the confusion.

I'm speaking of minter around 38-42 as if TT traded down (see my mock). I wouldn't nab him at 26, either. I also wouldn't go RB or FS in the first round.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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boratt


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When TT took over, he seemed to want to get as much talent anywhere possible as he could. Even still, if the right guy isn't there, he'll take the better player rather than reach for a position.

That said, TT does seem to be moving around a little more to nab needs now. The team is different than it was 5 or 6 years ago. We do have some positions of strength and some positions we could use more help at.

Looking at ILBs and Safeties isn't a bad idea. Big guys are always at a premium. RB is a need. . . . TT has shown signs of changing as the team changes.

Drafts with ILBs make a lot of sense. If you watched our defense last year, you'd know we sorely lack speed in the middle of our defense.
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Pugger


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Common folly of what we want now?

How about replacing Hawk in a year or two and not being sold on an undersized DJ Smith?

Even more, what was the point of drafting Perry then? Isn't he what we technically wanted now?


Perry was not drafted to be an ILB. He was drafted to play opposite Clay on the outside.
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mccammon07


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all we are not stacked at ILB. I think we need some more athleticism at the position that can cover tight ends and spy mobile QB's so we don't get embarassed like we did vs the niners. Bishop and Hawk are what they are. They are in the box type guys. I believe we need at least one linebacker that can cover tight ends past 3 yards. Somebody like Klein comes to mind. Would be a great guy to plug in on third down and get us off the field.
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Common folly of what we want now?

How about replacing Hawk in a year or two and not being sold on an undersized DJ Smith?

Even more, what was the point of drafting Perry then? Isn't he what we technically wanted now?


Perry was not drafted to be an ILB. He was drafted to play opposite Clay on the outside.

Perry at ILB is awful. Pure OLB/4-3RE. Has virtually nothing that translates to ILB.
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nfldraftguru1 wrote:
Pugger wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Common folly of what we want now?

How about replacing Hawk in a year or two and not being sold on an undersized DJ Smith?

Even more, what was the point of drafting Perry then? Isn't he what we technically wanted now?


Perry was not drafted to be an ILB. He was drafted to play opposite Clay on the outside.

Perry at ILB is awful. Pure OLB/4-3RE. Has virtually nothing that translates to ILB.


You're kidding, right?

That point was a reference to not drafting for positions of weakness. Which we undermined last year with Perry to a degree.

Never was I getting at him playing ILB.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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TheGreatZepp


Joined: 27 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mid-late round ILB's just make for good value picks. Non premium position and a whole bunch of prospects that fit the the body mold. Fill the special teams role and the like. They earn their keep on teams while they put on their NFL weight.
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CentralFC


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brick wall

Great. Good going, Alec.

Now on to find my new draft crush.
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Simian07:
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I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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PossibleCabbage


Joined: 25 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I would have to see Terrell Manning actually play some football in a season not compromised by intestinal parasites before I conclude the need at ILB is anything more than modest.

I think Manning could become a 3rd down coverage specialist at ILB, which is really all we need.
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HyponGrey


Joined: 23 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
justo wrote:
The guys most people have mocking at ILB aren't the type of guys going into Hawk's role. They are the ones going into Bishops. I don't think anyone has a shot to replace him till 2015.


No way is Hawk here in 2015. People were quick to complain about Driver, but Hawk is absolutely stealing money at this point. Driver had 2 TD's last year, Hawks last "play" was, what, 3 years ago ? There should be a player mutiny that Hawk will be 3rd on the payroll. Getting someone with some speed in the middle of the field would have a domino effect.

One small tidbit that has stuck in my mind about Brad Jones. During one of last seasons games, one of the announcers said that Capers really liked Jones. Lots here have him gone, but I wouldn't be so sure.
$$$ and Jones just proved he kinda deserved it.
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Bostick drove a guy 12 yards and finished off with a pancake and I'm not sure where my pants went.
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