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Is MLB that big of a need?
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

That's the same argument some used to defend Tim Tebow. "Well he won the Hesiman Trophy and two national championships while playing in the SEC."

That line of thinking completely fails to take into account the most important ingredient in NFL success - how a player's skillset translates to the NFL game and if said skillset fits in his team's current scheme.

I'm not going to dismiss Johnson. If Elway, Fox and JDR think he has the skillset to compete for a starting job in the NFL, then we should give him a shot and let his play on the field speak for itself. But in the same vein it is entirely appropriate to be skeptical given that he was undrafted for a reason and our team's depth at the MLB position could have forced Johnson into a role in which really did not belong.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have no problem going into the 2013 season with DJ and Nate as our top MLB's. I think that we are still going to see a Nickle LB on passing downs, and IMO the Front Office doesnt see a 3 down MLB as the necessity that many of us fans might.

DJ is a good player, and the only way I dont see him in Denver next season is if he refuses a paycut. Seeing as he already expressed a willingness to cut his salary, I cant see him all of a sudden not taking a paycut. People harp too much in regards to his one comment saying he didnt like playing MLB. He is our best option at MLB and closer to a 3 down MLB than any guys in this draft would be.

I think we should target a late round OLB who can play SLB and MLB just for depth. Thats the only LB need that I see.

SLB - Von / Rookie
MLB - DJ / Irving / Johnson
WLB - Wes / Danny

That rotation is excellent.
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AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5206
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

That's the same argument some used to defend Tim Tebow. "Well he won the Hesiman Trophy and two national championships while playing in the SEC."

That line of thinking completely fails to take into account the most important ingredient in NFL success - how a player's skillset translates to the NFL game and if said skillset fits in his team's current scheme.

I'm not going to dismiss Johnson. If Elway, Fox and JDR think he has the skillset to compete for a starting job in the NFL, then we should give him a shot and let his play on the field speak for itself. But in the same vein it is entirely appropriate to be skeptical given that he was undrafted for a reason and our team's depth at the MLB position could have forced Johnson into a role in which really did not belong.


C'mon AAA, you're taking it out of context. I listed that as one of half a dozen "positives".

My point is, we don't really know yet so lets not equate unknown to negative.

TT had a ton of negatives about his game. Haven't heard one yet about Johnson. I'd still love to hear from a KU fan that watched him a lot.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I would have no problem going into the 2013 season with DJ and Nate as our top MLB's. I think that we are still going to see a Nickle LB on passing downs, and IMO the Front Office doesnt see a 3 down MLB as the necessity that many of us fans might.

DJ is a good player, and the only way I dont see him in Denver next season is if he refuses a paycut. Seeing as he already expressed a willingness to cut his salary, I cant see him all of a sudden not taking a paycut. People harp too much in regards to his one comment saying he didnt like playing MLB. He is our best option at MLB and closer to a 3 down MLB than any guys in this draft would be.

I think we should target a late round OLB who can play SLB and MLB just for depth. Thats the only LB need that I see.

SLB - Von / Rookie
MLB - DJ / Irving / Johnson
WLB - Wes / Danny

That rotation is excellent.


DJ Williams is not MLB material. There's more to being a MLB than athleticism.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a need definitely but major? I think you can get pretty good production out of any mid-round MLB who possesses good instincts.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
DJ Williams is not MLB material. There's more to being a MLB than athleticism.


People glamorize MLB like you have to be some sort of warrior poet to man the position. DJ would be just fine as a 2 down MLB. He has played it before, and while he was not elite he was good enough. Throw the fact that our FO kept him on board all season and the type of MLB's that Fox and JDR historically like and I will be surprised if DJ isnt our starting MLB next season.
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PGeorge2


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
I'd still love to hear from a KU fan...


Well of course a KU fan is going to have good things to say about him. He had to be the only halfway decent player on their defense. Have you seen KU football lately?






You know I have to stick it to Kansas any time I can... Laughing
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:

Dude it is a simple matter. What am I saying is no one can know for certain right now whether Johnson can be a capable back up MLB in the NFL or not.
While Elway and co are not always right, (being human who is?) I am willing to take the fact they think highly of him as a sign that Johnson might be capable. If that makes me an apologist, so be it. Cheers.

I don't understand the logic behind this. Johnson may have just been one of the better players as a STer in that role. Some guys are good STers they stick around for that an they are used as emergency players if injuries happen far more than expected. For example I love Matt Slater but he is a terrible CB, S, and a bad WR(he's actually getting a bit better but still pretty bad). he only warrants a roster spot because he's a beast as gunner and lead blocker.
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

That's the same argument some used to defend Tim Tebow. "Well he won the Hesiman Trophy and two national championships while playing in the SEC."

It certainly doesnt define if they'll be good or not but those traits say something about work ethic, intelligence and attitude. Tebow didnt work out because he just couldn't improve enough and wasn't n the right situation.
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
DJ Williams is not MLB material. There's more to being a MLB than athleticism.


People glamorize MLB like you have to be some sort of warrior poet to man the position. DJ would be just fine as a 2 down MLB. He has played it before, and while he was not elite he was good enough. Throw the fact that our FO kept him on board all season and the type of MLB's that Fox and JDR historically like and I will be surprised if DJ isnt our starting MLB next season.

Didn't williams play MLB for a season under shanahan and he looked significantly worse than he is at WLB?
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:

Didn't williams play MLB for a season under shanahan and he looked significantly worse than he is at WLB?
Yes but to be fair DJ had Jamie Winborn and Nate Webster beside him and loads of trash on the DL.
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, Chris Harris, Wesley Woodyard, and most of the names being thrown around were all players who flashed in a big way early in their careers. Chris Harris stood out to me the very first preseason game he was in where he only played like one or two series at the end of the game. I've seen nothing special about Johnson. He's just a mediocre looking player.
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
"Capable back up?" What kind of loser's mentality is that? Now you're talking about not even giving Nate Irving actual competition for the MLB spot.


My opinion is that at the least Johnson can be a capable back up- much like Woodyard was before he became a near PRO BOWL selection as a starter. How you see that as loser mentality begs many questions.

Anti-SuperStar I know you think in your mind you are an NFL guru capable of doing what Elway and management team do at Dove Valley. Sorry bro I think the reality is that you are merely an internet forum contributor with largely wrong opinions and an over inflated view of himself. Smile

Let me say it one last time, if Elway and the coaching staff are high on Johnson, I take that as a great sign more so than your pessimism. Cheers.
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elliot878


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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGeorge2 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
I'd still love to hear from a KU fan...


Well of course a KU fan is going to have good things to say about him. He had to be the only halfway decent player on their defense. Have you seen KU football lately?






You know I have to stick it to Kansas any time I can... Laughing


That Chris Harris guy who also went undrafted played a few years on the same defense as Johnson.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
I would have no problem going into the 2013 season with DJ and Nate as our top MLB's. I think that we are still going to see a Nickle LB on passing downs, and IMO the Front Office doesnt see a 3 down MLB as the necessity that many of us fans might.

DJ is a good player, and the only way I dont see him in Denver next season is if he refuses a paycut. Seeing as he already expressed a willingness to cut his salary, I cant see him all of a sudden not taking a paycut. People harp too much in regards to his one comment saying he didnt like playing MLB. He is our best option at MLB and closer to a 3 down MLB than any guys in this draft would be.

I think we should target a late round OLB who can play SLB and MLB just for depth. Thats the only LB need that I see.

SLB - Von / Rookie
MLB - DJ / Irving / Johnson
WLB - Wes / Danny

That rotation is excellent.


DJ Williams is not MLB material. There's more to being a MLB than athleticism.


If you dont wanna come out and say it I will. You need a little more between the ears to be a very good MLB than what DJ possesses.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Burger Bill at ESPN.com, who has done work there I must say, had an interesting little nugget yesterday about our MLB situation.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/54969/is-denvers-mlb-plan-sound

Bill Williamson wrote:
I asked Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thinks of the current plan. Like me, he is skeptical that it will come down to simply Irving versus Johnson.

Denver’s middle linebacker is really just a two-down player,” Williamson said.

The bolded is particularly interesting. Does our scheme really just call or a MLB that is a 2-down player, thus having players like Mays and Brooking starting, or is using our MLB as only a 2-down player a result of only having Mays and Brooking? I will have go back on DVR tomorrow and look at some game tape but if this is correct, MLB might not really be a big need for us and Elway will use our draft picks and free agent dollars shoring up other weaknesses and adding depth to other positions.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
Burger Bill at ESPN.com, who has done work there I must say, had an interesting little nugget yesterday about our MLB situation.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/54969/is-denvers-mlb-plan-sound

Bill Williamson wrote:
I asked Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. what he thinks of the current plan. Like me, he is skeptical that it will come down to simply Irving versus Johnson.

Denver’s middle linebacker is really just a two-down player,” Williamson said.

The bolded is particularly interesting. Does our scheme really just call or a MLB that is a 2-down player, thus having players like Mays and Brooking starting, or is using our MLB as only a 2-down player a result of only having Mays and Brooking? I will have go back on DVR tomorrow and look at some game tape but if this is correct, MLB might not really be a big need for us and Elway will use our draft picks and free agent dollars shoring up other weaknesses and adding depth to other positions.


Someone previously eluded to this.

It may be more due to how much the coaching staff likes what theyre getting from their nickel backers. Rather than the inability of our current MLB's to do the job in the nickel set.

If you have 2 very good coverage backers in for nickel, i see no problem having a "2 down" mlb. Best players should play right? Even if it means breaking it down situationally.
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