Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Is MLB that big of a need?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Denver Broncos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 21149
Location: Capitol Cit-ay
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
Apparently Elway doesn't think MLB is a big need this off season going by this article in DP.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay



The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience.


I believe it was Klis last year before the draft who stated exactly what Denver wanted to do during the draft, which was that they wanted to acquire a DL, QB, RB, CB, and OL....and that was exactly what they did.

If he is reporting that Denver wants to add talent at CB, DT, OL, RB, and WR i can't help but think that is exactly what Denver is going to do this offseason.

I guess it all depends on the price, but i don't like seeing that the team is going to let Kevin Vickerson test the FA market. He was easily the best DT and did a very good job last season for Denver. Though it could be just an attempt at seeing what his price tag is, but i hope he stays in Denver.


I'm not convinced the FA thing is true. I can't imagine they let every FA sans Clady and Bruton test the market. I have a feeling Vickerson or Bannan, maybe both, will be back.


I don't think it is the case either, but Denver did let Bunkley test the market last season and most around the forum thought he was a must keep FA. Hopefully it is just an attempt and looking at his price as Denver probably has a # they don't want to surpass. If he gets offers over that it wouldn't surprise me to see them let him walk.


Vick is more likely to leave than Bannan, I'd guess. Especially with Bannan being a CO native, I think he'll definitely take a pay cut to stick around. I think Vickerson will look for a nice contract, but he won't get what Bunkley got, at least I can't imagine he would.
_________________


Thanks, Tzimisce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7581
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
Apparently Elway doesn't think MLB is a big need this off season going by this article in DP.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22606953/john-elway-convinced-drafting-brock-osweiler-will-pay



The Broncos won't be looking for a middle linebacker, even though Brooking is a free agent and Joe Mays is coming off a season-ending injury. The plan is for Nate Irving and Steve Johnson to compete for the starting job at that position, with Irving having the edge because of experience.


I believe it was Klis last year before the draft who stated exactly what Denver wanted to do during the draft, which was that they wanted to acquire a DL, QB, RB, CB, and OL....and that was exactly what they did.

If he is reporting that Denver wants to add talent at CB, DT, OL, RB, and WR i can't help but think that is exactly what Denver is going to do this offseason.

I guess it all depends on the price, but i don't like seeing that the team is going to let Kevin Vickerson test the FA market. He was easily the best DT and did a very good job last season for Denver. Though it could be just an attempt at seeing what his price tag is, but i hope he stays in Denver.


I'm not convinced the FA thing is true. I can't imagine they let every FA sans Clady and Bruton test the market. I have a feeling Vickerson or Bannan, maybe both, will be back.


I don't think it is the case either, but Denver did let Bunkley test the market last season and most around the forum thought he was a must keep FA. Hopefully it is just an attempt and looking at his price as Denver probably has a # they don't want to surpass. If he gets offers over that it wouldn't surprise me to see them let him walk.


Vick is more likely to leave than Bannan, I'd guess. Especially with Bannan being a CO native, I think he'll definitely take a pay cut to stick around. I think Vickerson will look for a nice contract, but he won't get what Bunkley got, at least I can't imagine he would.


You're probably right. Bannan will come back cheap, but he isn't really worth keeping, especially if kept with him being the primary starter in mind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4445
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
And anti was all about Harris IIRC.


Cool

mke1010 wrote:
Personally, I have no trouble envisioning Johnson turning in to a solid back up at MLB while continuing as a special teams ace. Could he eventually become what Woodyard has become at the weak spot? Why scoff at the idea? Dude has already proven many wrong.


He has? I don't recall Steven Johnson ever doing anything of note.

mke1010 wrote:
Irving was graded by many to have 1st round grade when we drafted him. I have kept my fingers crossed ever since. Fox has brought him along slowly as he did with some prospects in Carolina. If Irving is able to lock down the MLB starter's job this season, I will be ecstatic. One less position to target high in the draft.


Irving has talent, if you look at my posts at the time we drafted him you'll see I was high on the pick. I didn't say anything bad about him here, just merely wanted to laugh at Steven Johnson, who is a young guy who has done literally nothing but the front office and maybe the coaching staff as well are high on him. I just hope this isn't another Hamza Abdullah situation where the team keeps a sucky player for years because he's athletic or something.

I still wouldn't mind seeing another MLB brought in, I prefer to be more conservative than Elway with regards to Irving starting. Steven Johnson? Lol, good one.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5018
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
champ+jay+al=SB wrote:
And anti was all about Harris IIRC.


Cool

mke1010 wrote:
Personally, I have no trouble envisioning Johnson turning in to a solid back up at MLB while continuing as a special teams ace. Could he eventually become what Woodyard has become at the weak spot? Why scoff at the idea? Dude has already proven many wrong.


He has? I don't recall Steven Johnson ever doing anything of note.

mke1010 wrote:
Irving was graded by many to have 1st round grade when we drafted him. I have kept my fingers crossed ever since. Fox has brought him along slowly as he did with some prospects in Carolina. If Irving is able to lock down the MLB starter's job this season, I will be ecstatic. One less position to target high in the draft.


Irving has talent, if you look at my posts at the time we drafted him you'll see I was high on the pick. I didn't say anything bad about him here, just merely wanted to laugh at Steven Johnson, who is a young guy who has done literally nothing but the front office and maybe the coaching staff as well are high on him. I just hope this isn't another Hamza Abdullah situation where the team keeps a sucky player for years because he's athletic or something.

I still wouldn't mind seeing another MLB brought in, I prefer to be more conservative than Elway with regards to Irving starting. Steven Johnson? Lol, good one.


Gotta tell ya ANTI. When you get on a rant you're pretty comical. Toss common sense, logic and actual talent evaluation out the window.

Sorry man but I just gotta laugh. One post you'll be precise , methodical and accurate and the next you're a negative fanatic. You're hard to keep up with. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4445
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Point me to where I was being a negative fanatic. I think it's perfectly fair to say Steven Johnson has done nothing of note. Actually that's probably an understatement.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1687
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Point me to where I was being a negative fanatic. I think it's perfectly fair to say Steven Johnson has done nothing of note. Actually that's probably an understatement.


Proven folks wrong in that as an undrafted free agent, it was likely he would make the team and he did. He was also pretty decent in special teams. If the coaching staff has him in the mix for more playing time, is it entirely impossible that he could progress enough to make more of an impact?

Is there anything about his play this season that that tells you he can't make a significant jump in year two?

**wrong quote** Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4445
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
Proven folks wrong in that as an undrafted free agent, it was likely he would make the team and he did. He was also pretty decent in special teams.

If the coaching staff has him in the mix for more playing time, is it entirely impossible that he could progress enough to make more of an impact?

Is there anything about his play this season that that tells you he can't make a significant jump in year two?


What kind of reasoning is this? So unless I can find a bunch of plays where Steven Johnson completely sucks there's no reason to be critical of the idea of considering some random nobody Linebacker as legitimate "competition" for a starting Middle Linebacker spot? Merely making the team is a sign that Steven Johnson has done something to prove people wrong? Supposedly having some Special Teams tackles means the guy can play Linebacker?

How about instead give me a reason to have any confidence at all in Steven Johnson the Linebacker. But that would be too much. That requires some sort of standards. You sir are a straight up apologist.

Well sorry, no, I'm not buying it. The fact that Elway and the coaching staff may have some kind of confidence in him doesn't prove a thing to me. They have shown that same confidence in Joe Mays too and guess what, he still sucks. So why should I pretend Steven Johnson has done something?
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1687
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
Proven folks wrong in that as an undrafted free agent, it was likely he would make the team and he did. He was also pretty decent in special teams.

If the coaching staff has him in the mix for more playing time, is it entirely impossible that he could progress enough to make more of an impact?

Is there anything about his play this season that that tells you he can't make a significant jump in year two?


What kind of reasoning is this? So unless I can find a bunch of plays where Steven Johnson completely sucks there's no reason to be critical of the idea of considering some random nobody Linebacker as legitimate "competition" for a starting Middle Linebacker spot? Merely making the team is a sign that Steven Johnson has done something to prove people wrong? Supposedly having some Special Teams tackles means the guy can play Linebacker?

How about instead give me a reason to have any confidence at all in Steven Johnson the Linebacker. But that would be too much. That requires some sort of standards. You sir are a straight up apologist.

Well sorry, no, I'm not buying it. The fact that Elway and the coaching staff may have some kind of confidence in him doesn't prove a thing to me. They have shown that same confidence in Joe Mays too and guess what, he still sucks. So why should I pretend Steven Johnson has done something?


Dude it is a simple matter. What am I saying is no one can know for certain right now whether Johnson can be a capable back up MLB in the NFL or not.
While Elway and co are not always right, (being human who is?) I am willing to take the fact they think highly of him as a sign that Johnson might be capable. If that makes me an apologist, so be it. Cheers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 4445
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Capable back up?" What kind of loser's mentality is that? Now you're talking about not even giving Nate Irving actual competition for the MLB spot.
_________________
Stop slobbering over Brian Dawkins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brncos4life


Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1564
Location: CT
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

would love it if we brought in urlacher for 2 years..love his leadership and is still a tackling machine..of course when healthy...pass coverage not as good..thoughts???
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 21149
Location: Capitol Cit-ay
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brncos4life wrote:
would love it if we brought in urlacher for 2 years..love his leadership and is still a tackling machine..of course when healthy...pass coverage not as good..thoughts???


I'd bring him in on the cheap, but I think it is worth it to see what we have in younger guys. Denver has been a revolving door of garbage, inconsistent, or out of their prime MLBs.
_________________


Thanks, Tzimisce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anti, trying to connect the dots on your arguement and can't. There aren't any. All you're saying is because Johnson hasn't done it he can't. Not just he can't. but it's a joke to consider it. You're turning unknowns into negatives. Kind of a stretch isn't it?

Granted, there are lots of unknowns about him but what do we know?

Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

Made an NFL roster as a UDFA. Team leader in tackles in the preseason and ST tackle leader during the season. Finished the season on the depth chart as Brookings back-up.

I don't see any negatives there, not one. The few times I actually focused on him in preseason I noticed a guy that plays downhill, has a very good 1st step and a nose for the ball.

Anyway, I can't think of one reason he shouldn't be considered as a potential starter. Still unknowns. yes. Fewer though than every player entering the draft this year has.

Like I say, I can't figure out your point. Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnAngryAmerican


Moderator
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 18241
Location: Loveland, CO
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brncos4life wrote:
would love it if we brought in urlacher for 2 years..love his leadership and is still a tackling machine..of course when healthy...pass coverage not as good..thoughts???

If the Bears are willing to part with their team leader, a fan favorite and iconic personality, that should tell us all we need to know.

Elway is not in the business of over-paying for past-their-prime veterans. That is what both Shanahan and Mac did and look how well it worked out. Again, this is a team that will be built through the draft with only minor supplements in free agency. Aside from Peyton (who is a special case) look at the free agents we've signed during Elway's tenure - middle and lower tier free agents who are in their primes, come cheap, and carve out a niche role. The core of the team is found in the draft.
_________________
big_palooka:

Broncos CSU Rams Rockies Tiger Woods
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 21149
Location: Capitol Cit-ay
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Anti, trying to connect the dots on your arguement and can't. There aren't any. All you're saying is because Johnson hasn't done it he can't. Not just he can't. but it's a joke to consider it. You're turning unknowns into negatives. Kind of a stretch isn't it?

Granted, there are lots of unknowns about him but what do we know?

Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

Made an NFL roster as a UDFA. Team leader in tackles in the preseason and ST tackle leader during the season. Finished the season on the depth chart as Brookings back-up.

I don't see any negatives there, not one. The few times I actually focused on him in preseason I noticed a guy that plays downhill, has a very good 1st step and a nose for the ball.

Anyway, I can't think of one reason he shouldn't be considered as a potential starter. Still unknowns. yes. Fewer though than every player entering the draft this year has.

Like I say, I can't figure out your point. Confused


Most of this is just fodder though AK.

Yes, it's possible Johnson COULD become a starter. However, it's a HUGE reach to assume a UDFA should and can capably be the starter and QB of the defense for a SB team. It's a BIG reach.

He was undrafted for a reason. Very rarely do you hit on UDFA guys and find a guy like Chris Harris. Most UDFAs latch on as ST mavens or backups and that's their ceiling. There's a reason the VAST majority of UDFAs are out of the league. They simply aren't good enough to start. Johnson looked good in preseason against a lot of guys who aren't in the NFL. That probably means he was underdrafted, in fact, it definitely does. It does NOT however, mean he's a capable starter.
_________________


Thanks, Tzimisce
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Anti, trying to connect the dots on your arguement and can't. There aren't any. All you're saying is because Johnson hasn't done it he can't. Not just he can't. but it's a joke to consider it. You're turning unknowns into negatives. Kind of a stretch isn't it?

Granted, there are lots of unknowns about him but what do we know?

Multi year starter in a major college program and led his conference in tackles his senior season. Team captain.

Made an NFL roster as a UDFA. Team leader in tackles in the preseason and ST tackle leader during the season. Finished the season on the depth chart as Brookings back-up.

I don't see any negatives there, not one. The few times I actually focused on him in preseason I noticed a guy that plays downhill, has a very good 1st step and a nose for the ball.

Anyway, I can't think of one reason he shouldn't be considered as a potential starter. Still unknowns. yes. Fewer though than every player entering the draft this year has.

Like I say, I can't figure out your point. Confused


Most of this is just fodder though AK.

Yes, it's possible Johnson COULD become a starter. However, it's a HUGE reach to assume a UDFA should and can capably be the starter and QB of the defense for a SB team. It's a BIG reach.

He was undrafted for a reason. Very rarely do you hit on UDFA guys and find a guy like Chris Harris. Most UDFAs latch on as ST mavens or backups and that's their ceiling. There's a reason the VAST majority of UDFAs are out of the league. They simply aren't good enough to start. Johnson looked good in preseason against a lot of guys who aren't in the NFL. That probably means he was underdrafted, in fact, it definitely does. It does NOT however, mean he's a capable starter.


I won't argue those points, you're correct. It's not as huge a reach as you think though and it does happen. Neither Karl Mecklenburg or Tyrone Braxton would be drafted today, both 12th rd picks. Rod Smith turned out pretty well as has Chris Harris and WW. Their are others, just mentioned a few.

As far as Johnson, I've got questions also and am not suggesting he's the answer. Lot's of unknowns. Just saying he shouldn't be dismissed as a joke just because he was undrafted. That would be shortsighted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Denver Broncos All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group