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THE DUKE


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
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Location: Centerville, OH
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Pay the man Mike Brown Reply with quote

Bengals.com has a good article up on what Michael Johnson's uo to thiss offseason in working to get his degree and preparing for the season. Any character question marks look like they are all in the past now and at just age 26 he should be an effective DE the next 4-5 years. I'd rather they not have to mess around with the franchise tag and just herbal good 5 year extension signed. Plus we can tag Andre Smith if we can resign Johnson.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree 1000%. What he brings in the locker room with his work ethic should be rewarded. Keep him and Geno and the rest of the defense will follow their lead...
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Pay the man Mike Brown Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
Bengals.com has a good article up on what Michael Johnson's uo to thiss offseason in working to get his degree and preparing for the season. Any character question marks look like they are all in the past now and at just age 26 he should be an effective DE the next 4-5 years. I'd rather they not have to mess around with the franchise tag and just herbal good 5 year extension signed. Plus we can tag Andre Smith if we can resign Johnson.

Posting from a phone? Laughing

Anywho, i didn't there was ever any character concerns. There was concern coming out that his on field motor wasn't real good. But off the field? Always a model citizen.

I'd rather resign him than try to grab a FA...we know the system works with him.
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THE DUKE


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Pay the man Mike Brown Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
THE DUKE wrote:
Bengals.com has a good article up on what Michael Johnson's uo to thiss offseason in working to get his degree and preparing for the season. Any character question marks look like they are all in the past now and at just age 26 he should be an effective DE the next 4-5 years. I'd rather they not have to mess around with the franchise tag and just herbal good 5 year extension signed. Plus we can tag Andre Smith if we can resign Johnson.

Posting from a phone? :lol:

Anywho, i didn't there was ever any character concerns. There was concern coming out that his on field motor wasn't real good. But off the field? Always a model citizen.

I'd rather resign him than try to grab a FA...we know the system works with him.


DAMN YOU AUTOCORRECT!!!


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sparky151


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJ falls into the range between where you want to keep him and having to use the franchise tag on him. He's not a top 5 DE and not worth 11 mil per year. On the other hand we don't want to let him walk for just a comp pick in 2014. He and Andre have earned the right to shop themselves but staying with the Bengals makes sense for both players. They are productive here and the team has the money to pay them. I'd guess market value for Andre is 6-7 mil per year. He hasn't shown the ability to play the left side so he won't get LT money, especially with several on the market. He's probably better than Phil Loadholt, the other top RT available.

For MJ, he benefits from playing next to Geno and split time with Rucker his first 3 years. So I doubt he gets top DE money like Cliff Avril will get. I'd guess he gets 7-9 mil per year. If he goes elsewhere I think the Bengals could get about the same production by re-signing Gilberry and bringing Rucker back. They'd probably cost less combined than MJ will get.
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sparky151


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More Andre related but Reedy had a piece today where he said Andre would get a 9-9.5 mil contract on the open market, ie almost the amount of the franchise tag. I very much doubt that since most LTs make a lot less than that.
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THE DUKE


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wouldn't shock me if MJ gets $10 mil per.

Andre I was thinking $8 mil, but I wouldn't be shocked if he gets $9 mil.
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sparky151


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whitworth makes about 6 mil so it's hard to see Andre getting a lot more than that from the Bengals. Of course this is the team that franchised Stacey Andrews for 7.5 mil a few years ago.

MJ might get 10 mil from someone but it probably won't be the Bengals. He had 11.5 sacks but 5 of them were vs backup tackles for the Redskins and Ravens. He also benefits from playing next to Geno and wasn't a full time starter til Rucker left. I'd guess Avril will get the most money of this year's passrushers, then either MJ or Kruger.
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THE DUKE


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparky151 wrote:
Whitworth makes about 6 mil so it's hard to see Andre getting a lot more than that from the Bengals. Of course this is the team that franchised Stacey Andrews for 7.5 mil a few years ago.

MJ might get 10 mil from someone but it probably won't be the Bengals. He had 11.5 sacks but 5 of them were vs backup tackles for the Redskins and Ravens. He also benefits from playing next to Geno and wasn't a full time starter til Rucker left. I'd guess Avril will get the most money of this year's passrushers, then either MJ or Kruger.


Whitworth got that a few years ago, and along with inflation, it's also a different market.
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ochocinco4pres


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
It wouldn't shock me if MJ gets $10 mil per.

Andre I was thinking $8 mil, but I wouldn't be shocked if he gets $9 mil.


Is MJ worth 10? I think we should pay Andre 8-9.
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sparky151


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
sparky151 wrote:
Whitworth makes about 6 mil so it's hard to see Andre getting a lot more than that from the Bengals. Of course this is the team that franchised Stacey Andrews for 7.5 mil a few years ago.

MJ might get 10 mil from someone but it probably won't be the Bengals. He had 11.5 sacks but 5 of them were vs backup tackles for the Redskins and Ravens. He also benefits from playing next to Geno and wasn't a full time starter til Rucker left. I'd guess Avril will get the most money of this year's passrushers, then either MJ or Kruger.


Whitworth got that a few years ago, and along with inflation, it's also a different market.


It's a different market all right but one that pays less than a few years ago. You won't see deals like Haynesworth or Peppers got soon again. It used to be assumed that the cap would rise a fair bit every year so expensive contracts could be grown into. Now with a fairly flat cap, teams aren't willing to commit that much space.

Regarding Andre, Spotrac has the highest RT cap numbers in the league for 2013 at 12mil for Jason Smith, which he won't get, 10 mil for Doug Free which he won't get either, and 7 mil for David Stewart which he might get. Nobody thinks Stewart is the best RT in the league but that's top RT money and probably the area of what Andre and Loadholt will get.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparky151 wrote:
MJ falls into the range between where you want to keep him and having to use the franchise tag on him. He's not a top 5 DE and not worth 11 mil per year. On the other hand we don't want to let him walk for just a comp pick in 2014. He and Andre have earned the right to shop themselves but staying with the Bengals makes sense for both players. They are productive here and the team has the money to pay them. I'd guess market value for Andre is 6-7 mil per year. He hasn't shown the ability to play the left side so he won't get LT money, especially with several on the market. He's probably better than Phil Loadholt, the other top RT available.

For MJ, he benefits from playing next to Geno and split time with Rucker his first 3 years. So I doubt he gets top DE money like Cliff Avril will get. I'd guess he gets 7-9 mil per year. If he goes elsewhere I think the Bengals could get about the same production by re-signing Gilberry and bringing Rucker back. They'd probably cost less combined than MJ will get.


Both MJ93 and Andre can expect up to $10M on the market, and they have both put up enough good film last year to get offers at that level. Mike Brown has to spend up to 89% of the cap this year and has the space. He has to spend it on somebody.

We also often underestimate the importance of 'keeping your guys'; knowing what coaching is needed and familiarity with their play, versus the uncertainty of free-agents you dont know, (Travelle Wharton, Antonio Bryant).

Have we ever had great success from a vet FA ? I'm struggling to think of one.

Continuity is understimated
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sparky151


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who would pay Andre 10 mil per year? Jake Long might not get that much. The current highest paid RT in the league is David Stewart at 7 mil. That's not counting Jason Smith and Doug Free who won't be paid their scheduled amounts.

Pass rushers tend to get paid but I doubt MJ gets 10 mil either. Half his sacks came in 2 games vs backup tackles. If you take those out Gilberry was about as productive. Whoever plays RDE for the Bengals benefits from playing next to Geno so there aren't many doubleteams. If MJ goes to another team he would be less productive. If we lost MJ, I think we could re-sign Wallace and Rucker and be ok.

Since the Bengals have lots of cap space I think they might use it by letting players test the free agency waters with an offer to match. There's no evidence the players want out so a match from the Bengals should be enough to keep them while establishing market value. It also saves the player the hassle of moving, selling the house, etc.
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed Sparky. Plus, there aren't many teams that have the cap space to throw that kind of cash at players. MJ will end up around 6-7 mill average overa four to five year deal. ASmith will end up in the 5-6 mill range when all is said and done.

Most of the big spenders are OVER the cap as it is. Others, like Baltimore, have space, but are about to burn it up on a plyer or two of their own. Cleveland has the cap space, but MJ doesn't fit their 3-4 switch.
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
sparky151 wrote:
MJ falls into the range between where you want to keep him and having to use the franchise tag on him. He's not a top 5 DE and not worth 11 mil per year. On the other hand we don't want to let him walk for just a comp pick in 2014. He and Andre have earned the right to shop themselves but staying with the Bengals makes sense for both players. They are productive here and the team has the money to pay them. I'd guess market value for Andre is 6-7 mil per year. He hasn't shown the ability to play the left side so he won't get LT money, especially with several on the market. He's probably better than Phil Loadholt, the other top RT available.

For MJ, he benefits from playing next to Geno and split time with Rucker his first 3 years. So I doubt he gets top DE money like Cliff Avril will get. I'd guess he gets 7-9 mil per year. If he goes elsewhere I think the Bengals could get about the same production by re-signing Gilberry and bringing Rucker back. They'd probably cost less combined than MJ will get.


Both MJ93 and Andre can expect up to $10M on the market, and they have both put up enough good film last year to get offers at that level. Mike Brown has to spend up to 89% of the cap this year and has the space. He has to spend it on somebody.

We also often underestimate the importance of 'keeping your guys'; knowing what coaching is needed and familiarity with their play, versus the uncertainty of free-agents you dont know, (Travelle Wharton, Antonio Bryant).

Have we ever had great success from a vet FA ? I'm struggling to think of one.

Continuity is understimated


I would say any of the Dallas Defensive players we have brought over were great values and productive. Offensively, it is hard to get good FA without significantly overpaying for them, like Bryant. Those kinds of FA's rarely work out. Wharton was just an injury, it could happen to anyone.
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