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DarthDavis
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: |
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I keep looking at this real hard. I still think Jarvis Jones is probably the best player in this draft. So what if he has a short career, I would rather have a guy who can come in and produce and retire after 8 seasons then waiting around for a guy to develop. No one can argue that Jones is a pure football complete LB.
Werner has been warming up on me. Moore is good but I don't think he's great. Millner is starting to look more and more like one of the safest picks we can make but has question marks as well.
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101Raider
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2069
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| DOCLEW 28 wrote: | If we were to trade down it would have to be for a building block type player. And you just don't build around an OLB. If we were to trade down I would need to do it with the Rams for #16 and #20. That way we could nab guys like Warmack or Williams or even Fluker. You build around your guys up front. There are more than enough linebacker types.
The bottom line is that teams can scheme away from a special OLB. You can't scheme away from a DT or a solid OL. You regularly have to deal with those guys no matter what scheme you run. |
I get all of what your saying and I'd take any trade down at this point. Hell, I wouldn't mind getting completely out of the 1st and LOADING up with 2nd and 3rds as I feel like this draft is outrageously talented in those ranges. However, as has been stated in other threads it's not as easy to trade down as we'd like to imagine.
At 3 overall, I'm not ecstatic about either Moore or Werner. Star is in my opinion the best player in this draft but this draft is stupidly deep at DT. Assuming the Raider's medical staff are on board, I'd be perfectly content with Jones. I think he's the best pass rusher in the draft and is an impact player.
I'm not saying he's going to be on their level, but I've gotta think that McKenzie and Allen have seen 1st hand what a disruptive force an impact rush linebacker can do for a team in GB's Clay Mathews and Denver's Von Miller. I truly feel that if he passes our physical, we need to get used to the idea of Jones in Silver and Black |
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attack_in_s/b
Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 397
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| 101Raider wrote: | | DOCLEW 28 wrote: | If we were to trade down it would have to be for a building block type player. And you just don't build around an OLB. If we were to trade down I would need to do it with the Rams for #16 and #20. That way we could nab guys like Warmack or Williams or even Fluker. You build around your guys up front. There are more than enough linebacker types.
The bottom line is that teams can scheme away from a special OLB. You can't scheme away from a DT or a solid OL. You regularly have to deal with those guys no matter what scheme you run. |
I get all of what your saying and I'd take any trade down at this point. Hell, I wouldn't mind getting completely out of the 1st and LOADING up with 2nd and 3rds as I feel like this draft is outrageously talented in those ranges. However, as has been stated in other threads it's not as easy to trade down as we'd like to imagine.
At 3 overall, I'm not ecstatic about either Moore or Werner. Star is in my opinion the best player in this draft but this draft is stupidly deep at DT. Assuming the Raider's medical staff are on board, I'd be perfectly content with Jones. I think he's the best pass rusher in the draft and is an impact player.
I'm not saying he's going to be on their level, but I've gotta think that McKenzie and Allen have seen 1st hand what a disruptive force an impact rush linebacker can do for a team in GB's Clay Mathews and Denver's Von Miller. I truly feel that if he passes our physical, we need to get used to the idea of Jones in Silver and Black |
Totally agree.... when you look at what a great pass rusher can bring to a defense, imo they have the ability to make more of an impact than any other position. Thats one thing the best defenses all have in common is a guy that can really get after the QB.
I'm always skeptical of the whole "shortened career" thing.... a lot of it is speculation and paranoia and leading up to the draft it always gets blown way out of proportion. Supposedly he's gonna have an 8 year career and that's a problem.... in 8 years he'd be over 30.... when players start to decline anyways. Really just kind of baffles me, i feel like the average NFL career might not be much longer than 8 years.
Also a big fan of the idea of possibly trading right out of the 1st round. Always a ton of talent in the 2nd and 3rd with a lot less risk and smaller salaries. IMO at #3 overall if we were to trade down even to 15, almost guaranteed we get at least a 2nd out of the deal if not another 1st next year... And next year we've got the possibility of guys like Clowney or Marqise Lee (who imo is basically Megatron 2.0) |
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RunDmc23
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| dont forget Teddy Bridgewater hopefully our qb savior |
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DarthDavis
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 5205
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| DOCLEW 28 wrote: | | The Drunkos weren't as needy as we are on the OL at that time either. Why would you want to draft a rush OLB without being strong up the middle? How the hell are we going to be able to improve our rush defense? Or upgrade our OL I'm order to go to the PBS? |
Eric Fisher would be a great pick. Its a really safe choice for our team not so much draft value but screw that.
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Ro4DPoY
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Posts: 257
Location: VA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| attack_in_s/b wrote: | | 101Raider wrote: | | DOCLEW 28 wrote: | If we were to trade down it would have to be for a building block type player. And you just don't build around an OLB. If we were to trade down I would need to do it with the Rams for #16 and #20. That way we could nab guys like Warmack or Williams or even Fluker. You build around your guys up front. There are more than enough linebacker types.
The bottom line is that teams can scheme away from a special OLB. You can't scheme away from a DT or a solid OL. You regularly have to deal with those guys no matter what scheme you run. |
I get all of what your saying and I'd take any trade down at this point. Hell, I wouldn't mind getting completely out of the 1st and LOADING up with 2nd and 3rds as I feel like this draft is outrageously talented in those ranges. However, as has been stated in other threads it's not as easy to trade down as we'd like to imagine.
At 3 overall, I'm not ecstatic about either Moore or Werner. Star is in my opinion the best player in this draft but this draft is stupidly deep at DT. Assuming the Raider's medical staff are on board, I'd be perfectly content with Jones. I think he's the best pass rusher in the draft and is an impact player.
I'm not saying he's going to be on their level, but I've gotta think that McKenzie and Allen have seen 1st hand what a disruptive force an impact rush linebacker can do for a team in GB's Clay Mathews and Denver's Von Miller. I truly feel that if he passes our physical, we need to get used to the idea of Jones in Silver and Black |
Totally agree.... when you look at what a great pass rusher can bring to a defense, imo they have the ability to make more of an impact than any other position. Thats one thing the best defenses all have in common is a guy that can really get after the QB.
I'm always skeptical of the whole "shortened career" thing.... a lot of it is speculation and paranoia and leading up to the draft it always gets blown way out of proportion. Supposedly he's gonna have an 8 year career and that's a problem.... in 8 years he'd be over 30.... when players start to decline anyways. Really just kind of baffles me, i feel like the average NFL career might not be much longer than 8 years.
Also a big fan of the idea of possibly trading right out of the 1st round. Always a ton of talent in the 2nd and 3rd with a lot less risk and smaller salaries. IMO at #3 overall if we were to trade down even to 15, almost guaranteed we get at least a 2nd out of the deal if not another 1st next year... And next year we've got the possibility of guys like Clowney or Marqise Lee (who imo is basically Megatron 2.0) |
Average career is actually around 3 years if you account all of the draft picks that never pan out. But players that actually have the opportunity to get on the field ranges anywhere from 6 to 12.
http://www.businessinsider.com/nfls-spin-average-career-length-2011-4
So having a player capable of not only starting 8 seasons but dominating throughout is certainly worth a first round pick.
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In 1975 John Madden and Kenny Stabler got pulled over doing 120 MPH on the way to Las Vegas and Madden dipped the speeding ticket in cheese sauce, ate it, and screamed, "Hey fascist police pig, I just turned your ticket into fon-f***ing-due." |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3772
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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In what world is an 8 year NFL career shortened?
Marcus McNeil played 5 seasons before being forced to retire and he wasn't slamming into people.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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agarcia34
Joined: 24 Feb 2011
Posts: 1808
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Production doesn't lie.
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Jamethus92
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 4494
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| agarcia34 wrote: | | Production doesn't lie. |
That's overstating a lot, actually. Who has the most career tackles in college? What about passing yards? I can name tons of guys who were productive in college that didn't pan out. Totally disingenuous statement.
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holyghost
Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5309
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| agarcia34 wrote: | | Production doesn't lie. |
No, sometimes it does. McClain, Gallery..
You have to look at the entire package and measure every facet against the others. The whole picture doesn't lie. Any single view viewed alone can lie. |
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CaribouLou
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 4839
Location: Nor Cal
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| agarcia34 wrote: | | Production doesn't lie. |
How's Colt Brennan doing then?
Some guys games are tailored for college play but won't make it in the NFL.
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bitty
Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 2990
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| 101Raider wrote: | | DOCLEW 28 wrote: | If we were to trade down it would have to be for a building block type player. And you just don't build around an OLB. If we were to trade down I would need to do it with the Rams for #16 and #20. That way we could nab guys like Warmack or Williams or even Fluker. You build around your guys up front. There are more than enough linebacker types.
The bottom line is that teams can scheme away from a special OLB. You can't scheme away from a DT or a solid OL. You regularly have to deal with those guys no matter what scheme you run. |
I get all of what your saying and I'd take any trade down at this point. Hell, I wouldn't mind getting completely out of the 1st and LOADING up with 2nd and 3rds as I feel like this draft is outrageously talented in those ranges. However, as has been stated in other threads it's not as easy to trade down as we'd like to imagine.
At 3 overall, I'm not ecstatic about either Moore or Werner. Star is in my opinion the best player in this draft but this draft is stupidly deep at DT. Assuming the Raider's medical staff are on board, I'd be perfectly content with Jones. I think he's the best pass rusher in the draft and is an impact player.
I'm not saying he's going to be on their level, but I've gotta think that McKenzie and Allen have seen 1st hand what a disruptive force an impact rush linebacker can do for a team in GB's Clay Mathews and Denver's Von Miller. I truly feel that if he passes our physical, we need to get used to the idea of Jones in Silver and Black |
Jones is not as big or as fast as the other guys. Plus jones played in a scheme friendly defense. They blitzed him from the left,right and middle wherever he had a favorable matchup. |
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3772
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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and Jones is allergic to iron.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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Silver&Black88
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 24664
Location: Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Baggabonez wrote: | | and Jones is allergic to iron. |
Damn. He'll be prone to anemia then. Add another thing to the list
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Baggabonez
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3772
Location: RaiderNation
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Unless you're Jonathan Ogden, who also didn't have a great passion for lifting, I'd stay away from a guy who disliked the taste of iron.
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2013 Mancrush: DT Richardson, OT Joeckel, FS Vaccaro, FS Rambo, WR Dobson, RB Michael, TE McDonald, OT Foketi, WR Swope |
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