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Gmen
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15060
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
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 Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Very nice draft. Love that you make the front 7 a priority.
I'm looking forward to seeing Ogeltree on at the combine. One scout said he's a linebacker that moves like a safety.
I'm also a big fan of taking flyers on prospects that were big recruits, but didn't quite pan out in college. That's how we landed Will Hill, who I think is going to be a good player for us.
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| G-Men1994 wrote: | | Yeah I agree haha I believe McFadden has definitely more potential than Simon. Hopefully Prince will be very good for us next year! |
Prince was very good for us this past year. If he improves any more, he is going to be considered a top 10 CB in the NFL. But I guess we gotta see him going against #1 WRs before we make any real judgements.
| Shockey1979 wrote: | | Seems like a band-aid. And with the minimal amount of money we have to spend I don't see them affording long term O-lines solutions through FA. They need to stop drafting project lineman and spend a couple of early picks on key pieces for the future. We are going to quickly find ourselves with one of the worse O-lines in the league. |
I don't really consider Faulk to be a project. He was a possible 1st or 2nd round talent before the injury. I just don't think he'd be effective right away because of the recovery process.
I'm hoping the Giants can get Beatty back and be able to bring in a quality linemen. But I guess we will have to see how much space the Giants can make. If the Giants really like a free agent, they will do what is needed in regards to the cap. I'm really interested in what happens along the offensive line this offseason.
| Gmen wrote: | Very nice draft. Love that you make the front 7 a priority.
I'm looking forward to seeing Ogeltree on at the combine. One scout said he's a linebacker that moves like a safety.
I'm also a big fan of taking flyers on prospects that were big recruits, but didn't quite pan out in college. That's how we landed Will Hill, who I think is going to be a good player for us. |
The front seven needs to get some upgrades because last years defense against the run was not acceptable. They are getting kind of old in that area, and need a youth movement to revamp it.
Ogletree is a linebacker that moves like a safety, and that's because he used to play safety at Georgia. He is going to put up great numbers at the combine, which could possibly make him rise up the boards.
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G-Men1994
Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah most definitely, Prince is actually my favorite player I loved him coming out of college and I couldn't believe he fell to us at #19. You're right I believe he has to go against the #1's. Before the game against the Bengals he was ranked #9 in the league. We'll see, but we sure hope that he improves even more. |
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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So Ogletree got a DUI recently, which is going to hurt his draft stock. Imagine if we could get Sheldon Richardson in the 1st and then Ogletree in the 2nd. Well, one could wish...
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justinsgiants
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Posts: 236
Location: Made in the Meadowlands
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| HakeemTheDream wrote: | | So Ogletree got a DUI recently, which is going to hurt his draft stock. Imagine if we could get Sheldon Richardson in the 1st and then Ogletree in the 2nd. Well, one could wish... |
I still think if we were to go with Olgetree it would have to be in the first round. Regardless of the DUI, NFL teams will always look at his on-field ability first and then see if dealing with off-field issues will be worth it.
Also if we got Short in the second round I'd be totally cool with that. I think he's a top-45 pick.
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jerseyboy257
Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 305
Location: Northern Jersey
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| justinsgiants wrote: | | HakeemTheDream wrote: | | So Ogletree got a DUI recently, which is going to hurt his draft stock. Imagine if we could get Sheldon Richardson in the 1st and then Ogletree in the 2nd. Well, one could wish... |
I still think if we were to go with Olgetree it would have to be in the first round. Regardless of the DUI, NFL teams will always look at his on-field ability first and then see if dealing with off-field issues will be worth it.
Also if we got Short in the second round I'd be totally cool with that. I think he's a top-45 pick. |
As of right now Short is projected to go as early as a mid-late 1st rounder, but could last till somewhere in the second round.. Could not pass on his talent in round two.. the dude impressed all senior bowl week and at the bowl game and although some of his tape is inconsistent he has the potential to be a beast... |
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ESKY008
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 1024
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it's very possible short is there in the 2nd. There's about 8 DTs I've seen with first round grades. Can't see that happening so I think there will be a stud DT at #50. |
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Spartica4Real
Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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I think Short goes in the 20-32 range, but other than that it's great!
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| vikingsnumber1 wrote: | | Even if Favre retires, I think the Vikings will be back in the NFC title game within the next few years. And you can quote me on that. |
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justinsgiants
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Posts: 236
Location: Made in the Meadowlands
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| ESKY008 wrote: | | I think it's very possible short is there in the 2nd. There's about 8 DTs I've seen with first round grades. Can't see that happening so I think there will be a stud DT at #50. |
I have Cinci taking Short 21st overall in my mock draft. He's mid-second round at worst. We're right on the outside looking in, in the second round.
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Kodaraw
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Love the picks... Ogletree and Short would solidify our front seven... I agree that we should take Tharold Simon in the 4th. He's tall, 6'3, and very fluid. If Tann isn't there, I wouldn't mind taking Frederick from Wisconsin. He can play G and C, or David Quessenberry who can play T or G...
Faulk is a solid pick, fantastic value that late in the draft.
I've been on the Holloman bandwagon for a while now. With a little coaching I think he can be a stud. |
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justinsgiants
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Posts: 236
Location: Made in the Meadowlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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When has Reese drafted a linebacker in the first round? He drafted Sintim in the 2nd a few years back and Sintim was horrible.
Our defense calls on our d-line and secondary to make plays. Linebackers aren't all that valuable to us.
I still don't expect us to go LB in the first round.
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Kodaraw
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 114
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| justinsgiants wrote: | When has Reese drafted a linebacker in the first round? He drafted Sintim in the 2nd a few years back and Sintim was horrible.
Our defense calls on our d-line and secondary to make plays. Linebackers aren't all that valuable to us.
I still don't expect us to go LB in the first round. |
Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he won't. Our LB play is terrible, and he knows it. |
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justinsgiants
Joined: 15 Jun 2012
Posts: 236
Location: Made in the Meadowlands
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kodaraw wrote: | | justinsgiants wrote: | When has Reese drafted a linebacker in the first round? He drafted Sintim in the 2nd a few years back and Sintim was horrible.
Our defense calls on our d-line and secondary to make plays. Linebackers aren't all that valuable to us.
I still don't expect us to go LB in the first round. |
Just because he hasn't doesn't mean he won't. Our LB play is terrible, and he knows it. |
Our d-line and secondary were terrible too. When building a 4-3 defense, a pass-rusher and a shutdown corner take priority over a linebacker. Our defense is predicated on the d-line.
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HakeemTheDream
Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 501
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| Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| justinsgiants wrote: |
I still think if we were to go with Olgetree it would have to be in the first round. Regardless of the DUI, NFL teams will always look at his on-field ability first and then see if dealing with off-field issues will be worth it.
Also if we got Short in the second round I'd be totally cool with that. I think he's a top-45 pick. |
Agreed. I've heard that even after the DUI, teams like the Ravens won't hesitate to take him in the 1st because of his talent. So I highly doubt he is available in the 2nd round. Was just an initial thought right after it happened.
| Spartica4Real wrote: | | I think Short goes in the 20-32 range, but other than that it's great! |
I can definitely see that happening. DT is just so deep this year that I doubt 6-8 guys get taken in the first round. Another DT who I would happily take on the team if Short wasn't there is Sylvester Williams. He's more of a run-stuffer but is perfect for a 4-3 defense.
| Kodaraw wrote: | Love the picks... Ogletree and Short would solidify our front seven... I agree that we should take Tharold Simon in the 4th. He's tall, 6'3, and very fluid. If Tann isn't there, I wouldn't mind taking Frederick from Wisconsin. He can play G and C, or David Quessenberry who can play T or G...
Faulk is a solid pick, fantastic value that late in the draft.
I've been on the Holloman bandwagon for a while now. With a little coaching I think he can be a stud. |
I don't understand the infatuation with Simon over McFadden because he is 6'3. The Giants already have a CB with good size in Prince. Prince has everything you look for in a #1 CB (6 ft, 205+ lbs, 4.3s speed). McFadden has very few flaws in his game and looks like a great complementary CB. I know the new theme of CBs in the NFL are tall and physical because of Sherman/Browner, but I'd rather have a complete guy opposite Prince, regardless of height.
I'm also a big fan of Frederick. He is versatile and can be considered a C for the future. He is a devastating run blocker which I always want on an offensive line. He would be great value in the 3rd, but the big question is if he makes it there.
| justinsgiants wrote: | When has Reese drafted a linebacker in the first round? He drafted Sintim in the 2nd a few years back and Sintim was horrible.
Our defense calls on our d-line and secondary to make plays. Linebackers aren't all that valuable to us.
I still don't expect us to go LB in the first round. |
When was the last time Reese drafted a RB in the first round before last year with David Wilson? Never. Reese's track record isn't long enough to write off certain positions just because he hasn't prioritized it in the past. Sintim was a bad pick because he was someone who fit best into a 3-4 but Reese thought he would work out in a 4-3. That was a mistake. But just because of a past mistake doesn't mean that the Giants shouldn't ignore the position all together.
Reese has been a bad evaluator of talent when it comes to the LB position. The majority of his picks at the position have been mid to late round guys, and almost all of them haven't turned into good football players for us. The easiest solution to that problem is to draft players who are more ready for the NFL, which means a pick in the first three rounds. Instead of taking a shot at a late round guy, take a solid estimated guess on an early round guy and you may have a starter for 5+ years.
I understand that the D-Line and Secondary are more important to this defense, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore part of the defense. It takes 11 players to win or lose games, and right now the Giants starting LBs are Williams-Herzlich-Paysinger. Do you really want to see those three out there together next year? That scares the heck out of me, and I like all three of those guys.
Sure, I don't expect us to go LB in the first, but it's dumb not to think it's a possibility. If the right talent falls to the right spot, Reese will jump on it, regardless of position.
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dkebones
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 3163
Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
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| Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| justinsgiants wrote: | | Our d-line and secondary were terrible too. When building a 4-3 defense, a pass-rusher and a shutdown corner take priority over a linebacker. Our defense is predicated on the d-line. |
the problem with the line is that the middle of the 4-3 can't get pressure, and can't stop the run. that exacerbates pressure on the linebackers, a position that has been neglected by the team for forever. totally agree with the d-back play, but when you have a line that (i) can't stop the run, (ii) can't get consistent pass pressure as a group and (iii) a linebacking group that can't support the d-line's deficiencies, you simply can't expect defensive backs to play well either because too often they are a product of their system (especially in this offense-can-do-whatever-it-wants rules league).
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