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ovaw8lover
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes.
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11183
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I'm just going to through this out there, but most of us only have a layman's understanding of the WCO and what each player is "suppose" to do. Route running, understanding of the playbook, and technique can be coached.....what can't be coached is speed and Wallace has it in bunches.
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11183
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I'm just going to through this out there, but most of us only have a layman's understanding of the WCO and what each player is "suppose" to do. Route running, understanding of the playbook, and technique can be coached.....what can't be coached is speed and Wallace has it in bunches. |
How many players on the Packers have Wallace speed? The Pats don't run a WCO but how many of them run as fast or near Wallace? How many players on the Saints run as fast as Wallace?
Those are good examples of teams that have QBs that can pick you apart but at the same time, those WRs just get open. That's what they do. They get open and run routes.
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Lance Moore, Stevie Johnson, Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, Marques Colston, Eric Decker, and Anquan Boldin are all examples of guys that have decent speed but get open because they run crisp routes.
Guys like Desean Jackson make it in a WCO but Maclin is the better receiver. Maclin isn't as fast but runs better routes.
Speed helps, but you don't need anything but speed. You need guys that can run good routes without the gimmicks.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I'm just going to through this out there, but most of us only have a layman's understanding of the WCO and what each player is "suppose" to do. Route running, understanding of the playbook, and technique can be coached.....what can't be coached is speed and Wallace has it in bunches. |
How many players on the Packers have Wallace speed? The Pats don't run a WCO but how many of them run as fast or near Wallace? How many players on the Saints run as fast as Wallace?
Those are good examples of teams that have QBs that can pick you apart but at the same time, those WRs just get open. That's what they do. They get open and run routes.
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Lance Moore, Stevie Johnson, Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, Marques Colston, Eric Decker, and Anquan Boldin are all examples of guys that have decent speed but get open because they run crisp routes.
Guys like Desean Jackson make it in a WCO but Maclin is the better receiver. Maclin isn't as fast but runs better routes.
Speed helps, but you don't need anything but speed. You need guys that can run good routes without the gimmicks. |
Speed is not a Gimmick....the Wold-cat is a gimmick...speed is an attribute....Wallace is entering his prime and learning more about the position....
Yes, some teams function very well without all star WRs, but look at the QB those teams have....look at the TE's all those teams have...The Dolphins have nothing close to that. Last season they had 2 guys who ran very crisp routes and how often did they get into the endzone?
The Dolphin's don't have to do everything EXACTLY like the Packers....let them develop there own offense, let them develop their own personality....How can a guy who run's sub 4.4 forty hurt? Especially if there are great route runners around him?
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11183
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I'm just going to through this out there, but most of us only have a layman's understanding of the WCO and what each player is "suppose" to do. Route running, understanding of the playbook, and technique can be coached.....what can't be coached is speed and Wallace has it in bunches. |
How many players on the Packers have Wallace speed? The Pats don't run a WCO but how many of them run as fast or near Wallace? How many players on the Saints run as fast as Wallace?
Those are good examples of teams that have QBs that can pick you apart but at the same time, those WRs just get open. That's what they do. They get open and run routes.
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Lance Moore, Stevie Johnson, Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, Marques Colston, Eric Decker, and Anquan Boldin are all examples of guys that have decent speed but get open because they run crisp routes.
Guys like Desean Jackson make it in a WCO but Maclin is the better receiver. Maclin isn't as fast but runs better routes.
Speed helps, but you don't need anything but speed. You need guys that can run good routes without the gimmicks. |
Speed is not a Gimmick....the Wold-cat is a gimmick...speed is an attribute....Wallace is entering his prime and learning more about the position....
Yes, some teams function very well without all star WRs, but look at the QB those teams have....look at the TE's all those teams have...The Dolphins have nothing close to that. Last season they had 2 guys who ran very crisp routes and how often did they get into the endzone?
The Dolphin's don't have to do everything EXACTLY like the Packers....let them develop there own offense, let them develop their own personality....How can a guy who run's sub 4.4 forty hurt? Especially if there are great route runners around him? |
First i didn't say Speed was the Gimmick. I was talking about the unnecessary should shake, hip shake, or foot stutter. Guys that just run and make a cut into their route.
I listed Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, and a Brandon Lloyd. All guys that use route running to get open. Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Michael Crabtree, Mike Willaims (TB).
The sub 4.4 40 would help but the WCO isn't all about speed. It's about timing, precision routes, catching the ball away from your body, and rolling the QB out. Most of the WCO is short to intermediate routes. Pick apart the defense and then hit them deep.
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ViolentMonk71
Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 2517
Location: Don Shula's front porch
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ViolentMonk71 wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I'm just going to through this out there, but most of us only have a layman's understanding of the WCO and what each player is "suppose" to do. Route running, understanding of the playbook, and technique can be coached.....what can't be coached is speed and Wallace has it in bunches. |
How many players on the Packers have Wallace speed? The Pats don't run a WCO but how many of them run as fast or near Wallace? How many players on the Saints run as fast as Wallace?
Those are good examples of teams that have QBs that can pick you apart but at the same time, those WRs just get open. That's what they do. They get open and run routes.
Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Lance Moore, Stevie Johnson, Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, Marques Colston, Eric Decker, and Anquan Boldin are all examples of guys that have decent speed but get open because they run crisp routes.
Guys like Desean Jackson make it in a WCO but Maclin is the better receiver. Maclin isn't as fast but runs better routes.
Speed helps, but you don't need anything but speed. You need guys that can run good routes without the gimmicks. |
Speed is not a Gimmick....the Wold-cat is a gimmick...speed is an attribute....Wallace is entering his prime and learning more about the position....
Yes, some teams function very well without all star WRs, but look at the QB those teams have....look at the TE's all those teams have...The Dolphins have nothing close to that. Last season they had 2 guys who ran very crisp routes and how often did they get into the endzone?
The Dolphin's don't have to do everything EXACTLY like the Packers....let them develop there own offense, let them develop their own personality....How can a guy who run's sub 4.4 forty hurt? Especially if there are great route runners around him? |
First i didn't say Speed was the Gimmick. I was talking about the unnecessary should shake, hip shake, or foot stutter. Guys that just run and make a cut into their route.
I listed Reggie Wayne, AJ Green, Larry Fitzgerald, and a Brandon Lloyd. All guys that use route running to get open. Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Michael Crabtree, Mike Willaims (TB).
The sub 4.4 40 would help but the WCO isn't all about speed. It's about timing, precision routes, catching the ball away from your body, and rolling the QB out. Most of the WCO is short to intermediate routes. Pick apart the defense and then hit them deep. |
The problem is Tannehill can't quite do that yet....so having a guy that can draw attention away from the other receivers can only help.
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ProudDolphan47
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 5015
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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If the Dolphins elect to bring in Mike Wallace, you ultimately have to trust that he is a part of a vision.
It is impossible to decipher what the Dolphins long term strategies are because the coaching staff was teaching a roster that may not fit their ideal strengths. So as a result, the coaching staff must cater it's strategy to fit the players. But that doesn't mean that the staff and office don't want to phase in more players as time passes that fit the ideal bill that Philbin is looking for.
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 11183
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ProudDolphan47 wrote: | If the Dolphins elect to bring in Mike Wallace, you ultimately have to trust that he is a part of a vision.
It is impossible to decipher what the Dolphins long term strategies are because the coaching staff was teaching a roster that may not fit their ideal strengths. So as a result, the coaching staff must cater it's strategy to fit the players. But that doesn't mean that the staff and office don't want to phase in more players as time passes that fit the ideal bill that Philbin is looking for. |
If they bring in Wallace, I'm on board because obviously they see something in him.
As of right now I'm not so sure
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alant_8
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| While i would love Wallace, i personally agree with what SUG said last page he's not essential. Having 3 WR's who can run EVERY route (like hartline) is just as important for the offense we run |
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Blagasse67
Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Location: Delaware
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think what we are overlooking is the TE position. I think we should go after Martellus Bennett or watch to see if Finley is cut.
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cddolphin
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Posts: 4806
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, route - running will get you open, so no, speed isn't 100% necessary. However, the type of speed Wallace brings to the table forces the safety to play 5 - 10 yards further back from the line of scrimmage, opening the middle of the field more for the intermediate and short routes. Which is exactly where Hartline / Bess are proficient.
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fishfan4life
Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1127
Location: santa rosa california
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| cddolphin wrote: | | Yes, route - running will get you open, so no, speed isn't 100% necessary. However, the type of speed Wallace brings to the table forces the safety to play 5 - 10 yards further back from the line of scrimmage, opening the middle of the field more for the intermediate and short routes. Which is exactly where Hartline / Bess are proficient. |
agreed and Wallace isnt randy Moss in his prime but he does have the same effect with keeping the safety back. Wallace had alot to do with antonio brown sanders and miller working underneath. He can have a impact without even catching a pass |
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ovaw8lover
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 8666
Location: Dolphins Stadium
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Blagasse67 wrote: | | ovaw8lover wrote: | | Blagasse67 wrote: | | What you guys aren't paying attention to is the fact the WCO doesn't focus on a #1 wr. They focus on spreading the ball around. You need guys that can run routes, catch with their hands, and make plays with the ball in their hands. |
While that is true the WCO, like any offense, needs space to throw the ball. Wallace provides that. Look at any WCO and they have players that get open deep. Miami lacks that. Not sayng the need a Wallace but someone with the ability to catch deep passes. |
You still don't get the fact that in the WCO WRs get open by running routes. They have precise routes to make defenders struggle to cover them. It isn't all about speed. If it was, Desean Jackson would be the best WR since he is in a WCO. Mike Wallace is a lot like Desean Jackson.
I'm not saying Mike Wallace won't be good, but you don't need to focus on just speed. YOu need to focus on route running and hands |
I do not disagree with you. Every WCO has a guy that gets deep. WHile New England does not stretch the field with their passes the most prolific NE team had Randy Moss not Gronk or Hernandez.
Those 49er teams of the 80's had Jerry Rice, who ran crisp routes but they also had John Taylor. Packers had Jennings, Driver, Nelson & Cobb. Nelson and Cobb both got behind defenses. That is all I am saying. You cannot have a bunch of crisp route runners because defenses will shrink the field. I will take DeSean Jackson and Mike Wallace right now and scare the living hell out of any defense while my Tight End catches 80+ passes. Better yet, sign Mike Wallace and draft Tavon Austin and see how good Miami's run game becomes. Bess will be nearly impossible to stop.
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