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jcvoodoo


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 437
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: With the need of picks: trade back and get... Reply with quote

Margus Hunt... check this http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap1000000138815/article/margus-hunt-ezekiel-ansah-emerge-in-search-for-next-jj-watt

So ya say we need a dominate pass rusher?... check
So ya say ya want a game changer? ... check
So ya say ya need a defense force of nature?. check

Yea, as I see it and after reading/researching about game changing prospects... I have decided on this guy. Margus Hunt!

OK...check this... We now have Rob Ryan as the new DC. The MAN that's supposed to transform the NFL's WORST defense into a dare I say top 20 defense in his first year. And, oh by the way, our players are used to a totally different scheme. Yea, the 4-3 defense vs. the 3-4.

While Sean Payton suprised a few of us and showed Steve Spagnuolo the boot (pun intended), he suprised just about all of us on this forum when he announced the hiring of Rob Ryan.

There has been much discussion about 3-4 defensive schemes, mainly 1-gap and 2-gap. While I admit, these terms are still somewhat foreign to me...someone posted someting that made sense to me and got me thinking. That person was/is the forum's 'Doc WhoDat' ...sammymvpknight.

He mentioned (feel free to correct me if I misread your posts) that Ryan's scheme was more like a 4-3 with a Leo position. I interpretted this as 'the Leo' was a DE/OLB hyrbrid type position.

Now, coupled with a different thread's discussion about Akiem Hicks. Should he and can he play NT? I believe he can. If I recall he actually played NT at Regina in multiple sets. So, he posess the knowledge of the position. He can play DE/UT or whatever term you want to use. This type of player seems to be destined not only to play the NT role in Ryan's 'Leo' scheme, but he WILL excel at it.

Now... let's say Hicks plays NT. In this scenario, we need a DE right? Insert Margus Hunt. Trade out of the 15 spot to say 20-24 and snag that dominant game-changing DE.

Now... let's talk 'Leo'. I referred to this position as a spot for DE/OLB. Insert Tez or Junyah. Use the atheleticness (is that even a word?) of the guys you have.

So... defense breakdown is this:
DE: Cam Jordan
NT: Akiem Hicks
DE: Margus Hunt

WOLB: Galette/Wilson(nickel)
WILB: Lofton/Hawthorne (nickel)
SILB: Wilson/Vilma (nickel)
SOLB: Not currently on the roster

CB: P-Rob
FS: IAQ
SS: Corey White
CB: Cary Williams

Bring on the sharks.. rip it up guys.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently the coaches think Vilma will be the rush OLB, which makes sense since he doesn't like mixing it up with the big nasties but I also don't think he'll be getting a lot of playing time.

What about a trade back from #15 to about #25 and picking up a 2nd rounder. Trade Harper for a 4th


1st-Matt Elam, SS Florida
2nd-Margus Hunt, DE SMU
3rd-Reid Fragel, OT Ohio State
4th-ILB & OLB
5th-TE
6th-DL Depth
7th-WR

Defense:
DE-Jordan
NT-Hicks
DE-Hunt
WOLB-Vilma
WILB-Lofton
SILB-Martez Wilson/Draft Pick
SOLB-Draft Pick/Wilson
CB-Patrick Robinson
FS-Malcolm Jenkins
SS-Matt Elam
CB-Corey White
NB-Jabari Greer
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3180
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to the cap and this will fit under it, don't ask me but just know that I do believe that Loomis will figure it out and get it done.

I truly feel that both Sean Payton and Rob Ryan realize that this switch is likely a 2 year process and in the 1st year we are strapped against the cap and short on draft picks. I feel you will actually see more of a hybrid of what Ryan truly wants to run defensively in 2013.

I do see Smith, Vilma & Harper ALL BACK next year, yep that's right! I think Loomis gets Vilma and SMith back on cheap 1 year deals while Harpers deal is restructured to a lower cap number.

I think we see a 34 that is like no other in the NFL next season. I feel Ryan will not look at it as "this is my starter here, that is my starter there". THis season will be all about sub packages and sub formations. THe linebackers will see sets with Galette and Wilson outside, only one outside with Lofton, Hawthorne and Vilma in their. THe D-line will see bunkley at NT at times and Hicks their at other times. At DE it will be a rotation between Jordan, Smith, Hicks and our 1st round draft pick (yes I see us drafting a d-lineman).

The front 7 will be nothing but a multitude of sub packages. THe look of this 34 will change as the situation of the game does. THe only starters that I see that will play most downs and rarely come off the field in the front 7 are Curtis Lofton & Cameron Jordan.

The secondary will be what it is... Man Blitz and Ryan will get Harper back to doing what he does best.

Stop comparing this scheme to other 34's, Rob Ryan will bridge the gap in 2013 by making the most of whats available to him as he builds this defense through time and yes there is a place on this team in 2013 for each of these guys.

Save me the cap problems, I believe in Loomis and he always finds a way.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
When it comes to the cap and this will fit under it, don't ask me but just know that I do believe that Loomis will figure it out and get it done.

I truly feel that both Sean Payton and Rob Ryan realize that this switch is likely a 2 year process and in the 1st year we are strapped against the cap and short on draft picks. I feel you will actually see more of a hybrid of what Ryan truly wants to run defensively in 2013.

I do see Smith, Vilma & Harper ALL BACK next year, yep that's right! I think Loomis gets Vilma and SMith back on cheap 1 year deals while Harpers deal is restructured to a lower cap number.

I think we see a 34 that is like no other in the NFL next season. I feel Ryan will not look at it as "this is my starter here, that is my starter there". THis season will be all about sub packages and sub formations. THe linebackers will see sets with Galette and Wilson outside, only one outside with Lofton, Hawthorne and Vilma in their. THe D-line will see bunkley at NT at times and Hicks their at other times. At DE it will be a rotation between Jordan, Smith, Hicks and our 1st round draft pick (yes I see us drafting a d-lineman).

The front 7 will be nothing but a multitude of sub packages. THe look of this 34 will change as the situation of the game does. THe only starters that I see that will play most downs and rarely come off the field in the front 7 are Curtis Lofton & Cameron Jordan.

The secondary will be what it is... Man Blitz and Ryan will get Harper back to doing what he does best.

Stop comparing this scheme to other 34's, Rob Ryan will bridge the gap in 2013 by making the most of whats available to him as he builds this defense through time and yes there is a place on this team in 2013 for each of these guys.

Save me the cap problems, I believe in Loomis and he always finds a way.


Third paragraph made me sick
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Third paragraph made me sick


Now Flood... this ain't what I personally would do, it's just the sense I get from this club. Their willingness to hang on to aging players and the loyalty they have has always been one of their shortcomings as a front office.
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FLOODx


Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 6039
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Quote:
Third paragraph made me sick


Now Flood... this ain't what I personally would do, it's just the sense I get from this club. Their willingness to hang on to aging players and the loyalty they have has always been one of their shortcomings as a front office.


I understand keeping Vilma as a "coach on the field", and I'm okay with it as long as he doesn't start. Will Smith has absolutely no business being on this roster.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
Quote:
Third paragraph made me sick


Now Flood... this ain't what I personally would do, it's just the sense I get from this club. Their willingness to hang on to aging players and the loyalty they have has always been one of their shortcomings as a front office.


I understand keeping Vilma as a "coach on the field", and I'm okay with it as long as he doesn't start. Will Smith has absolutely no business being on this roster.


I agree on Smith, I will even go as far and say that Vilma as well has ne business on this roster but that's me. Harper however... I don't know if anyone on this forum has attacked him more than I but I do actknowledge that Ryan has the ability to get Harper back to being a very productive NFL safety by playing to his strengths and getting him back to what he does best.
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Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vilma is coming back because he is intelligent, and can read situations. He is SP's favorite defensive player. He is our leader. He wants to retire a Saint and he has the right to for what he did for us. Smith is not our leader. He can go. Vilma needs to stay.
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krewebrees


Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with worm that Lomis will find a way to get us under the cap. I just don't want him to restucter contract I actually want to see cut because I think some guys don't fit the system.

Yes Raves it looks like Vilma will stay with the team this year as for the position He won't be the rusher Sean Payton want our linebacker corp to be a JACK SAM MIKE WILL (I've brought this up before but know one seems to get it). The JACK is the pass rusher (think Suggs or Ware)the weaksidebacker or will in this scheme is actually the storng side outside (think Kruger or Spencer). This is because the Mike or middle backer (think Lewis or Spencer) is the strong side inside. Leaving to spots left an inside SAM (Strong) (think Elerbe or Sims)and outside WILL (weak) even though the WILL is on the strong side.

Ryan defense always had several subformations and many players played multiple positions. His nickle packages were either 2-4, 1-5, or 0-6. So I agree with Worm here too. I do however think that Lofton, Jordan, AND WILSON will never leave the field.

I didn't think that Harper had any place in our 3-4 defense. I thought that there was only one defense coordinator scheme Harper would fit in. That was Ryan so I can see Harper coming back and haveing success. I still think that Smith has no spot in a 3-4 defense and is hurting the cap way to much.
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spanky3801


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no, no...

Fellas c'Mon, think about it.

Will Smith will be cut.

Vilma will not be on the team. He's not gonna be the OLB. Sean Payton is just talking.g him up in search of a TRADE partner. You heard me. If Payton makes him appealing to other teams, we unload the contract and get a draft pick, i. e. Donte Stallworth.

We were keeping Reggie after drafting Ingram. How many Downs did he play as a Saints that year?
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Spartica4Real


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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Location: Louisiana (NS922 on the sig)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spanky3801 wrote:
No, no, no...

Fellas c'Mon, think about it.

Will Smith will be cut.

Vilma will not be on the team. He's not gonna be the OLB. Sean Payton is just talking.g him up in search of a TRADE partner. You heard me. If Payton makes him appealing to other teams, we unload the contract and get a draft pick, i. e. Donte Stallworth.

We were keeping Reggie after drafting Ingram. How many Downs did he play as a Saints that year?


Vilma is our leader. Not Donte or Reggie. Believe it, he will be like Ray Lewis. He will finish his career here AS A STARTER
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spanky3801


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Spartica4Real"][quote="spanky3801"]No, no, no...

Fellas c'Mon, think about it.

Will Smith will be cut.

Vilma will not be on the team. He's not gonna be the OLB. Sean Payton is just talking.g him up in search of a TRADE partner. You heard me. If Payton makes him appealing to other teams, we unload the contract and get a draft pick, i. e. Donte Stallworth.

We were keeping Reggie after drafting Ingram. How many Downs did he play as a Saints that year?[/quote]

Vilma is our leader. Not Donte or Reggie. Believe it, he will be like Ray Lewis. He will finish his career here AS A STARTER[/quote]




Wrong. You don't hire someone like Rob Ryan without him taking control of the D. If that were the case, we would've kept Spags.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spanky3801 wrote:
Spartica4Real wrote:
spanky3801 wrote:
No, no, no...

Fellas c'Mon, think about it.

Will Smith will be cut.

Vilma will not be on the team. He's not gonna be the OLB. Sean Payton is just talking.g him up in search of a TRADE partner. You heard me. If Payton makes him appealing to other teams, we unload the contract and get a draft pick, i. e. Donte Stallworth.

We were keeping Reggie after drafting Ingram. How many Downs did he play as a Saints that year?


Vilma is our leader. Not Donte or Reggie. Believe it, he will be like Ray Lewis. He will finish his career here AS A STARTER





Wrong. You don't hire someone like Rob Ryan without him taking control of the D. If that were the case, we would've kept Spags.


And what does that have to do with anything I just said?
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spanky3801


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sean Payton said Vilma would be our OLB, not Rob Ryan. Gone, gone, gone...
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole... "Vilma is or leader and deserves to be brought back" is absurd!

Jonathan Vilma WAS a good linebacker for us and leader, at one time. However that time has now passed. Vilma does NOT deserve anything from the Saints. The team actually did him a solid by not releasing him last offseason. There just comes a point where fans need to understand that this is a busniess and that not all your favorite Saints players are going to retire in the black and gold.

Jonathan Stichcomb was also a very close friend to Payton, still is. Man of the year in New Orleans and heading into another season buy once Payton realized his knee wasent there anymore he did what was best for the team and cut him. Payton has said it was one of the hardest decisions he ever had to make because of his fondness of the player. I hold Payton accountable and expect him to make those decisions across the board.

Yes Payton has a affinity for Vilma but that will not stop him from doing what's best for this team if need be, no matter what kind of leader Vilma is!
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