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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
Not against. The Steelers do not have the personal to do the change. If they had drafted Hightower, which it sounds like they would have done had DD not fallen to them, then they are in shape to make the change. I'm a firm believer that the Steelers look a year ahead to make draft decisions. If they think they will not have Hampton and there is no viable replacement then Hightower was their guy. When they drafted Ta'amu their comment was that he was the last NT on the board. My bet is that if they had drafted Hightower then Bobby Massie or Ladarius Green or Nick Toon would be Steelers today.

If their weren't a NT of Jessie Williams capabilities in this draft it would be another thing. If there was a ILB of Hightower's capabilities in this draft it would be another thing.

Do I think they can pull off something without Hampton or a Buck LB sure but people are going to raise holy h311 when they get gashed up the middle for several years.


I'm going to agree that the Steelers run defense is going to go through a transition. But I also believe the opposition is going to have a adjustment period also.

The Steelers for years have been a 2 gap team, maybe except for the year Kimo was NG/NT. But the pass rush, pressure and sacks are going to go way up from the 3 DL if McLendon is used at NT.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I WANT Ogletree! Yes he is a Timmons' clone but why do some figure it will take him 3 to 4 years to develop? San Fran took Bowman, who I wanted as ILB, and he developed into a Willis clone and they now have the best LB unit in the league.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
I WANT Ogletree! Yes he is a Timmons' clone but why do some figure it will take him 3 to 4 years to develop? San Fran took Bowman, who I wanted as ILB, and he developed into a Willis clone and they now have the best LB unit in the league.


I must say, Navarro Bowman is a rare breed. Listen you'll be hard pressed to find a more avid Penn State Fan. I love them! I love the players, I always want the Steelers to draft them, and most of the time I end up glad we didn't. I really think Poz would've been a solid player here but instead of Poz we took Timmons..I'm not complaining now even though I admit I was then.

Penn State LB's are amazing...in Penn State. It's not often that they go the NFL and 'tear turf' like Bowman has. Take LaVarr Arrington for example HUGE name coming out of college..very disappointing season career honestly.

Bowman is a beast, absolute beast and its just not often someone comes from PSU and has that type of impact. It doesn't matter what position it is. PSU is one of those schools that frankly..develops their kids to be great in college not in the future. Other teams obviously, Florida, Texas, (bigger schools) have more success developing NFL talent. That might change with Bill O'Brien but that's another story for another day.

Clone of Timmons or not, there is a bigger chance of LBs like Olgetree being a bust than coming out of college and destroying their competition in the way that Bowman has, imo.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, Bowman was WLB coming out of college. His triangular numbers were close to Timmons. Many experts said he couldn't stack and shed blocks (yawning) lol. These guys are constantly being coached and hitting the gym, karate lessons, or whatever and developing their skills. Ogletree would be a very good addition to the Steelers.
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
IIRC, Bowman was WLB coming out of college. His triangular numbers were close to Timmons. Many experts said he couldn't stack and shed blocks (yawning) lol. These guys are constantly being coached and hitting the gym, karate lessons, or whatever and developing their skills. Ogletree would be a very good addition to the Steelers.


Bowman was/is so different from Ogletree.
#1 Bowman was a senior when he was drafted. That means he was a 3 year starter. He knew what he was doing. Ogletree has 1 season starting.
#2 Bowman was outstanding read and react coming out of college. Ogletree is poor in this ability relying on pure athletic ability to make plays.
#3 Bowman was/is an excellent tackler. Ogletree misses many tackles because he takes bad angles because he is slower to read and react.

Ogletree is another boom/bust player. The Steelers have been able to take LBs like him and make them players...in 2-3 years. Athletically, Ogletree is outstanding. Mental and experience, not so much.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ jebrick, I understand everything that you said, however, we aren't talking Madden in terms of developing. Tree is a one year startert at ILB but I am one of the few who likes his read and reaction ability. He will get stronger at POA but our defense isn't built to allow our ILBs to constantly get swallowed up. Our defense attacks line a zone blocking oline.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
@ jebrick, I understand everything that you said, however, we aren't talking Madden in terms of developing. Tree is a one year startert at ILB but I am one of the few who likes his read and reaction ability. He will get stronger at POA but our defense isn't built to allow our ILBs to constantly get swallowed up. Our defense attacks line a zone blocking oline.


I'm not real sure jebrick said anything about Madden. If I had to do 100 Mock Drafts with Bowman or Ogletree as my #1 pick...I'd go with Bowman 100 times. Not for what I see/know now, but for what I saw/knew then.

Bowman is a great linebacker, he was picked 91 overall which is, imo, a steal. I truly believe that one of the biggest reasons he fell is because he was a PSU LB and given the recent group of PSU draftees that have been disappointing..it sorta didn't play into his favor. Well that and the class of 2010 including a lot of really good players; though I was shocked he didn't go in the 2nd round with Lee. I actually expected him to be a first round pick and frankly..if teams had it to do all over gain..he probably would have been. In fact..if teams had it to do all over gain..it makes me wonder if Pouncey would be our Center..or Bowman would be our 2nd ILB..
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ OP, I know ecactly what Jebrick wrote. Everyone feels it will take players 2-3 years to develop but nany young guys hit the nfl hard. I will get some games from youtube and we can openly discuss what we see. It is challenging but then we can all get a better feeling about some of these guys. May do it on the 16th or 17th. When I think about it, Tree is a similar prospect as Kuechly, minus the experience and they are similar in size also.
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bowman fell because he had a HORRIBLE combine. Just something that happens. But it is a good lesson for later when evaluating talent.
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
@ OP, I know ecactly what Jebrick wrote. Everyone feels it will take players 2-3 years to develop but nany young guys hit the nfl hard. I will get some games from youtube and we can openly discuss what we see. It is challenging but then we can all get a better feeling about some of these guys. May do it on the 16th or 17th. When I think about it, Tree is a similar prospect as Kuechly, minus the experience and they are similar in size also.


Argh!! Kuechly is a super read and react LB with limited athletic talents. Ogletree is the exact opposite. Some sites compare Ogletree to Weatherspoon but that one is bad as well.

Timmons is the best compare coming out. Timmons with a little more experience.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jebrick wrote:
Bowman fell because he had a HORRIBLE combine. Just something that happens. But it is a good lesson for later when evaluating talent.


True Story, that sorta slipped my mind. Great point!

jebrick wrote:

Argh!! Kuechly is a super read and react LB with limited athletic talents. Ogletree is the exact opposite. Some sites compare Ogletree to Weatherspoon but that one is bad as well.

Timmons is the best compare coming out. Timmons with a little more experience.


This is exactly why I hate comparisons honestly. I agree with you as you, based on what people have said about Ogletree that he sounds a lot like Timmons as he entered the NFL.

I do NOT think we draft Olgetree at 17. If we move back, maybe, but at 17...I just find it hard to believe he'll be the BPA.

Edit: And despite our needs, I do believe that we'll still draft BPA. I do think that "BPA" will address a need, I just don't think that need will be Ogletree.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand but I prefer Warmack over any LB or DL.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all of my ire against Ogletree I'm fairly sure he is high on Tomlin's list Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
I understand but I prefer Warmack over any LB or DL.


I'm not saying that either. I could see the Justification of Jesse Williams over Warmack.
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone feel Cornelius Washington is worth a 4th rounder? 34 personnel with go pretty fast
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