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SnA ExclusiVe
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 Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO.
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diamondbull424
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO. |
There was still over 2 minutes left in the game at that point... and all we would've needed was a field goal to win. So you factor in the fact that we have Jacoby Jones fielding kicks + the roll the Flacco was on + Justin Tucker... and I like our chances to get a field goal to win the game.
Either way, the point is... Josh Bynes flashed some strong play at ILB in the same fashion that Dannell Ellerbe flashed strong play in his short amount of time as a rookie. And now we see what Ellerbe looks like in his peak. Well assuming Bynes has nothing to offer would be foolish. And sure tackles don't mean everything, but Bynes play was also noticeably strong as well. A few fans made several comments regarding how good he looked.
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mcdni
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I would rather pay Kruger $8m per year than Ellerbe $8m per year. I don't think Ellerbe is worth anything more than $4m per year.
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| diamondbull424 wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO. |
There was still over 2 minutes left in the game at that point... and all we would've needed was a field goal to win. So you factor in the fact that we have Jacoby Jones fielding kicks + the roll the Flacco was on + Justin Tucker... and I like our chances to get a field goal to win the game.
Either way, the point is... Josh Bynes flashed some strong play at ILB in the same fashion that Dannell Ellerbe flashed strong play in his short amount of time as a rookie. And now we see what Ellerbe looks like in his peak. Well assuming Bynes has nothing to offer would be foolish. And sure tackles don't mean everything, but Bynes play was also noticeably strong as well. A few fans made several comments regarding how good he looked. |
I think you're missing my argument here, or maybe I'm missing something. I'm not saying release Bynes, I'm saying DON'T release or not resign Ellerbe. We can keep Bynes and play him next to Ellerbe, but if our starting ILB's next year are Bynes/rookie, that's not good.
Basically the argument I see here is we should value Ayanbadejo for his ST contributions as much as a starter, and that's not true.
And I don't have access to past games other than highlights, but Bynes was certainly strong in run defense but from what I remember about him, his pass defense has A LOT to be desired, and right now in this league linebackers who can play the pass are at a premium.
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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SnA ExclusiVe
Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| mcdni wrote: | | I would rather pay Kruger $8m per year than Ellerbe $8m per year. I don't think Ellerbe is worth anything more than $4m per year. |
I wouldn't. We already have a replacement ready to start if Kruger departs, in Upshaw. If Ellerbe leaves, we're left with one guy who was our 4th string ILB this year and a rookie (assuming Jameel is also let go).
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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mcdni
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | mcdni wrote: | | I would rather pay Kruger $8m per year than Ellerbe $8m per year. I don't think Ellerbe is worth anything more than $4m per year. |
I wouldn't. We already have a replacement ready to start if Kruger departs, in Upshaw. If Ellerbe leaves, we're left with one guy who was our 4th string ILB this year and a rookie (assuming Jameel is also let go). |
Pass Rusher with 13.5 sacks > an ILB that couldn't beat out Jameel McClain for a starting spot.
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SnA ExclusiVe
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| mcdni wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | mcdni wrote: | | I would rather pay Kruger $8m per year than Ellerbe $8m per year. I don't think Ellerbe is worth anything more than $4m per year. |
I wouldn't. We already have a replacement ready to start if Kruger departs, in Upshaw. If Ellerbe leaves, we're left with one guy who was our 4th string ILB this year and a rookie (assuming Jameel is also let go). |
Pass Rusher with 13.5 sacks > an ILB that couldn't beat out Jameel McClain for a starting spot. |
Except he did beat out Jameel McClain, and then some........
And yeah Kruger had a great year this year, but disappeared for most of it and is inconsistent and can't play the run OR drop into coverage. Upshaw, when it's all said and done, is going to be just as good as Kruger, he just needs to experience and we can always draft a pass rusher who's more explosive than Kruger is anyways.
That's just my take though. I'd rather sign the guy at the position of need for cheaper than signing a guy where we have SOME depth for a lot more.
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO. |
To be fair, Ellerbe didn't have a game saving tackle on Gore -- Gore actually stepped out of bounds at the 8 yard line whereas Ellerbe pushed him out at the 5.
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Flaccomania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | mcdni wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | mcdni wrote: | | I would rather pay Kruger $8m per year than Ellerbe $8m per year. I don't think Ellerbe is worth anything more than $4m per year. |
I wouldn't. We already have a replacement ready to start if Kruger departs, in Upshaw. If Ellerbe leaves, we're left with one guy who was our 4th string ILB this year and a rookie (assuming Jameel is also let go). |
Pass Rusher with 13.5 sacks > an ILB that couldn't beat out Jameel McClain for a starting spot. |
Except he did beat out Jameel McClain, and then some........
And yeah Kruger had a great year this year, but disappeared for most of it and is inconsistent and can't play the run OR drop into coverage. Upshaw, when it's all said and done, is going to be just as good as Kruger, he just needs to experience and we can always draft a pass rusher who's more explosive than Kruger is anyways.
That's just my take though. I'd rather sign the guy at the position of need for cheaper than signing a guy where we have SOME depth for a lot more. |
I think you missed what he said -- he said that if we are going to spend $8m/year on a player, he'd rather it be Kruger than Ellerbe. I agree with that.
That said, I think Ellerbe is the higher priority. I just don't think he's an $8m/year player.
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SnA ExclusiVe
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Location: Spokane, WA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO. |
To be fair, Ellerbe didn't have a game saving tackle on Gore -- Gore actually stepped out of bounds at the 8 yard line whereas Ellerbe pushed him out at the 5. |
It's still a really weak argument. "He made the game-saving ST tackle! He's ready to be a starter!!!" if that was the case Ayanbadejo would be starting for us right now.
Ellerbe is just starting to flourish and found his rhythm this year. He's a good, young ILB and we need that since Ray is retiring. But, we'll see what happens. If we choose to release Ellerbe we better get some SERIOUS pass rush to make up for the lack of coverage we're going to have.
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| Leon Sandcastle wrote: | | Torrey Smith is a deep threat, he will never be a top-10 WR...he doesn't posses the raw athleticism that Dez does...sorry |
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coordinator0
Joined: 18 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | It's still a really weak argument. "He made the game-saving ST tackle! He's ready to be a starter!!!" if that was the case Ayanbadejo would be starting for us right now.
Ellerbe is just starting to flourish and found his rhythm this year. He's a good, young ILB and we need that since Ray is retiring. But, we'll see what happens. If we choose to release Ellerbe we better get some SERIOUS pass rush to make up for the lack of coverage we're going to have. |
Even if Ellerbe is retained the Ravens are going to need help with the pass-rush. He's not good in coverage. I'm not sure where that notion came from. |
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mcdni
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: |
I think you missed what he said -- he said that if we are going to spend $8m/year on a player, he'd rather it be Kruger than Ellerbe. I agree with that.
That said, I think Ellerbe is the higher priority. I just don't think he's an $8m/year player. |
Exactly. Don't get me wrong. I like Ellerbe. I thought he was very good in the playoffs. I just don't think we pay him more than $4m ish per year.
Right player, right price. I believe Ellerbe is the wrong player at an $8m price.
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Flaccomania
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Flaccomania wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | | Well, I mean, Ellerbe's game-saving tackle on Gore, followed by another tackle on the next play on LMJ > Bynes' ST tackle on Ginn IMO. |
To be fair, Ellerbe didn't have a game saving tackle on Gore -- Gore actually stepped out of bounds at the 8 yard line whereas Ellerbe pushed him out at the 5. |
It's still a really weak argument. "He made the game-saving ST tackle! He's ready to be a starter!!!" if that was the case Ayanbadejo would be starting for us right now.
Ellerbe is just starting to flourish and found his rhythm this year. He's a good, young ILB and we need that since Ray is retiring. But, we'll see what happens. If we choose to release Ellerbe we better get some SERIOUS pass rush to make up for the lack of coverage we're going to have. |
If the ST tackle is the only point you got from DB's posts, I'm not really sure what to say. Bynes definitely has shown some flashes when he's gotten opportunities.
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Flaccomania
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | SnA ExclusiVe wrote: | It's still a really weak argument. "He made the game-saving ST tackle! He's ready to be a starter!!!" if that was the case Ayanbadejo would be starting for us right now.
Ellerbe is just starting to flourish and found his rhythm this year. He's a good, young ILB and we need that since Ray is retiring. But, we'll see what happens. If we choose to release Ellerbe we better get some SERIOUS pass rush to make up for the lack of coverage we're going to have. |
Even if Ellerbe is retained the Ravens are going to need help with the pass-rush. He's not good in coverage. I'm not sure where that notion came from. |
I know, right? I'd say Ellerbe is roughly average in coverage, but it's by no means a strong suit for him. I don't know where it's come from either.
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BareYourTeeth
Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| coordinator0 wrote: | | Even if Ellerbe is retained the Ravens are going to need help with the pass-rush. He's not good in coverage. I'm not sure where that notion came from. |
| mcdni wrote: |
Exactly. Don't get me wrong. I like Ellerbe. I thought he was very good in the playoffs. I just don't think we pay him more than $4m ish per year.
Right player, right price. I believe Ellerbe is the wrong player at an $8m price. |
Bingo. With Ellerbe likely commanding around $8m a year, I say we just go back to the Houston well this off-season and sign Bradie James to a cheap one or two year deal, draft a pass rusher in one of the first two rounds... or both (Margus Hunt, Chase Thomas  ) , and take a guy like Gerald Hodges in the third. Then draft Shayne Skov next year.
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