Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

49ers’ secondary was primary reason for playoff collapse
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SoCalNiner


Moderator
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 22431
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: 49ers’ secondary was primary reason for playoff collapse Reply with quote

Found this interesting article on our secondary

http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/49ers-secondary-was-primary-reason-for-playoff-collapse/

On Whitner....

Quote:
In the first 13 games of the season, Whitner allowed a lot of completions, but they weren’t of the crippling variety. Since Week 15, nearly half of the passes completed against Whitner went for touchdowns. From looking at the weekly averages, it would appear as though New England figured out a blueprint for targeting Whitner, and other teams copied it. Then again, perhaps Whitner has been playing through injury or fatigue. Whatever the case, he was bad in coverage. Really bad.


On Cully....

Quote:
For as bad as Whitner‘s collapse was, Culliver‘s was even greater. In the first 13 games, Culliver was one of the elite cover corners in the NFL, allowing opposing quarterbacks to complete just 42.8% of passes targeted at him. In the last six games, quarterbacks completed nearly 67%.


There are some charts in there comparing our regular season with our playoffs as well.

I'm not confident in going into the season with this secondary. I do think that some of us overrate our guys, and that they aren't as good as we think. Any thoughts on how we can improve our pass defense?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
48 1/2ers


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 2348
Location: UCI
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think in Whitner's case we need to finally call him what he is...a run stuffing safety. In todays NFL you cannot be just a run stuffing safety, that position is no longer useful against 95% of the league. He is one of the best in the game at that but when it comes to real coverage he's slower, shorter, and less quick than the people he's usually guarding and it seems more confused on diagnosing routs and rout combinations. Goldson can succeed in this league because he has developed all parts of his game, he's not elite at really anything but he's solid across the board. I don't think Whitner can adjust his game but if he wants to remain a starter in the NFL he is going to have to.

Culliver I think just had mental lapse during some plays. Sometimes he did fantastic other times he looked like an idiot but thats part of being a 23 year old in the NFL. not worried

Secondary is clearly the most concerning group though...again
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blast


Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1420
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is more important this offseason; finding that future DE to take over for JSmith or fixing our secondary?
_________________
Quote:
"I don't know who they think we are. We're on a mission."-Patrick BamBam Willis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 6443
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was never a big fan of whitner (see comments in the "is whitner underrated" thread lol) and have always thought he was overrated. He had a very good year in 2011, i won't deny, but this year he was dreadful, and was much more in line with his career play.

The cully collapse really shocked me. I thought Culliver was very underrated by people throughout the season. I didn't realize he got lit up like a christmas tree so badly.

I have felt in the past that our front seven covered a ton of deficiency in our secondary by pressuring the qb so much, so quickly, while being able to do it with basically only a three man rush. It made our secondary look far better than it actually was.
_________________


Two in harmony surpasses one in perfection - P3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 39344
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointing to one aspect to alleviate guilt from others just isn't working. Defense was full of fail often enough... but that doesn't give the offense a full pass either.

1st quarter was a 3 and out and then a long drive inside their 10 which we bombed out on and settled for 3. Defense allowed far too many conversions and they played keep away.

2nd quarter, a short drive failed and then an interception on the next drive... Then another 3 and out... then our 2nd real driving possession, where we got into the RZ and failed again to punch it in.

28-6 at the half is a huge fail on both defense and offense.

Hard to come back from that... on top of a kickoff returned TD on the opening 3rd quarter play. We almost did... but again.. too many failed RZ attempts. Offense goes 3 and out after Ray Rice fumbles back to us on the short side of the field?

To our credit, we almost dug ourselves out, and made the game respectable... but that last TD attempt? forcing 3 passes to Crabtree? Ick.


Lots of fail to go around... but our defense and offense struggled early... and neither could carry us when it mattered most.

( hate even rehashing this... we should let old wounds heal already ) Sad
_________________

___
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cHaInBrEaKeRiii


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 4339
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 39344
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.


Team game, CB... always been a team game. What I don't like is reading an article that tries to throw one aspect under the bus... and I presume it is done to alleviate blame for other aspects. This isn't about Alex vs Kaep. Read what I wrote again with a clear mind. I didn't put the majority of blame on any one area.
_________________

___
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2641
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think he was putting all the blame on the offense but more saying that we failed as a team together. imo, the game breaker in the SB was when we couldn't score on the fumble from Ray Rice. It would have been huge to come up with 7 there. It didn't help us that the offense had to settle for two first half FGs and that the defense gave away free yardage due to penalties.

The coaching staff did a good job at running routes into the area of Ray Lewis but imo we should have attacked Ray more. Vernon and Crabs were getting big yardage on crossing routes in the area of Ray and also Roman didn't do us any favors by not taking advantage of a Ngata less defense in the 4th. I know Gore had that big run to put us in position to take the lead but once again, we failed to get the job done.

at the end of the day, our guys didn't get the job done as a team.
_________________
Quote:

culliver wrote:
14-2.

Losses @DEN @SEA

#1 seed

Superbowl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 12870
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The secondary had played lights out all year until the very last few weeks, and we suddenly have a major problem in the secondary? It's one part secondary, but a big part lack of pass rush due to injuries to the Smiths. We should improve depth all over the defense, so that late in the year, legs are fresher, injuries are fewer, and mental lapses are rarer. That's all. So, let's find DL depth, with a DE for the future, a S for the future, a #4 CB to push Cox to #5, and take over the #3 spot when Rogers leaves. There's no need for a drastic change.

The article says it clearly. Everyone was playing at an elite level until week 15. Is it just a coincidence? Was Whitner just being lucky all year until then? Or is it more plausible that fatigue and injuries simply took its toll on the defense?
_________________


RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking

1) RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking
2) y2's pie Power Rankings (3.1416 rules!)
3) N4L's Poster Power Rankings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
cHaInBrEaKeRiii


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 4339
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.


Team game, CB... always been a team game. What I don't like is reading an article that tries to throw one aspect under the bus... and I presume it is done to alleviate blame for other aspects. This isn't about Alex vs Kaep. Read what I wrote again with a clear mind. I didn't put the majority of blame on any one area.


I understand... You win as a team and lose as a team. But since this was about the secondary and you brought up redzone offense and you stated that Alex would have won the SB... I thought what I thought.... I know that loss left a bitter taste, but excited about the future.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2641
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
The secondary had played lights out all year until the very last few weeks, and we suddenly have a major problem in the secondary? It's one part secondary, but a big part lack of pass rush due to injuries to the Smiths. We should improve depth all over the defense, so that late in the year, legs are fresher, injuries are fewer, and mental lapses are rarer. That's all. So, let's find DL depth, with a DE for the future, a S for the future, a #4 CB to push Cox to #5, and take over the #3 spot when Rogers leaves. There's no need for a drastic change.

The article says it clearly. Everyone was playing at an elite level until week 15. Is it just a coincidence? Was Whitner just being lucky all year until then? Or is it more plausible that fatigue and injuries simply took its toll on the defense?


Blame the fatigue and lack of pass rush. When Justin got hurt, our defense starting to crumble then it didn't help that Aldon had a shoulder injury also. I agree, we need depth behind those guys. I'm not even opposed to keeping Parys as long as he takes a pay cut...
_________________
Quote:

culliver wrote:
14-2.

Losses @DEN @SEA

#1 seed

Superbowl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2641
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.


Team game, CB... always been a team game. What I don't like is reading an article that tries to throw one aspect under the bus... and I presume it is done to alleviate blame for other aspects. This isn't about Alex vs Kaep. Read what I wrote again with a clear mind. I didn't put the majority of blame on any one area.


I understand... You win as a team and lose as a team. But since this was about the secondary and you brought up redzone offense and you stated that Alex would have won the SB... I thought what I thought.... I know that loss left a bitter taste, but excited about the future.


Jim put it best: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. but we didn't. This year will be the 20th year anniversary since our last one so maybe this will be the year....
_________________
Quote:

culliver wrote:
14-2.

Losses @DEN @SEA

#1 seed

Superbowl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
y2lamanaki


Moderator
FF Fanatic
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 9596
Location: Lancaster, PA
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.


Team game, CB... always been a team game. What I don't like is reading an article that tries to throw one aspect under the bus... and I presume it is done to alleviate blame for other aspects. This isn't about Alex vs Kaep. Read what I wrote again with a clear mind. I didn't put the majority of blame on any one area.


I understand... You win as a team and lose as a team. But since this was about the secondary and you brought up redzone offense and you stated that Alex would have won the SB... I thought what I thought.... I know that loss left a bitter taste, but excited about the future.


Jim put it best: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. but we didn't. This year will be the 20th year anniversary since our last one so maybe this will be the year....


This year will be our 19th anniversary since our last one, so let's hope we're not waiting for 20. (1994 season, Super Bowl held in January, 1995).
_________________


Frank Gore 10,000 yard tracker:

Currently - 9,967
Ranked 29th all-time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
NcFinest9erFan


Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 2641
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
NcFinest9erFan wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
cHaInBrEaKeRiii wrote:
@oldman You think Alex would have won a Super Bowl if he was the starting QB for us that day. I believe regardless what the actual reasons are for the loss, you're still gonna put the majority of the blame on our offense and Kap. I think its time to move on ... Kap is here to stay and hopefully the same with our head coach.


Team game, CB... always been a team game. What I don't like is reading an article that tries to throw one aspect under the bus... and I presume it is done to alleviate blame for other aspects. This isn't about Alex vs Kaep. Read what I wrote again with a clear mind. I didn't put the majority of blame on any one area.


I understand... You win as a team and lose as a team. But since this was about the secondary and you brought up redzone offense and you stated that Alex would have won the SB... I thought what I thought.... I know that loss left a bitter taste, but excited about the future.


Jim put it best: Shoulda, woulda, coulda. but we didn't. This year will be the 20th year anniversary since our last one so maybe this will be the year....


This year will be our 19th anniversary since our last one, so let's hope we're not waiting for 20. (1994 season, Super Bowl held in January, 1995).


nvm then lol. 19th is good for me. I got the year mixed up. Thanks y2k
_________________
Quote:

culliver wrote:
14-2.

Losses @DEN @SEA

#1 seed

Superbowl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 13264
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 49ers’ secondary was primary reason for playoff collapse Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
Found this interesting article on our secondary

http://www.bayareasportsguy.com/49ers-secondary-was-primary-reason-for-playoff-collapse/

On Whitner....

Quote:
In the first 13 games of the season, Whitner allowed a lot of completions, but they weren’t of the crippling variety. Since Week 15, nearly half of the passes completed against Whitner went for touchdowns. From looking at the weekly averages, it would appear as though New England figured out a blueprint for targeting Whitner, and other teams copied it. Then again, perhaps Whitner has been playing through injury or fatigue. Whatever the case, he was bad in coverage. Really bad.


On Cully....

Quote:
For as bad as Whitner‘s collapse was, Culliver‘s was even greater. In the first 13 games, Culliver was one of the elite cover corners in the NFL, allowing opposing quarterbacks to complete just 42.8% of passes targeted at him. In the last six games, quarterbacks completed nearly 67%.


There are some charts in there comparing our regular season with our playoffs as well.

I'm not confident in going into the season with this secondary. I do think that some of us overrate our guys, and that they aren't as good as we think. Any thoughts on how we can improve our pass defense?


Improve our pass rush! Don't mean to be flip, but the time period being talked about coincides with both Justin and Aldon getting hurt. They both played on, but both were a shadow of their normal selves. Any receiver can get open and any QB can look good if you leave them enough time.

Having said that, I think we could use a real lock-down corner - a guy who can single handedly take care of the other team's number one leaving the rest of the defense to handle everyone else. Lost in the memory of Steve Young, Jerry Rice and all those guys in our last SB win was the fact that we added Deion that year and he did exactly what I just described. They left him alone on an island with the other team's best receiver and he would almost always completely shut them down.

Finally, I would describe some of what happened as our "bend but don't break" defense as "breaking". That approach can work great against bad or ordinary teams. But when you're playing the best, you've got to mix it up more than we do. The Ravens didn't blitz much against us. But look how they chose to bring it all on the 2-pointer and on the 4th down play at the end of the game. Fangio plays soft coverage and when plays really matter he's more likely to rush 3 than 5 or 6. With our talent, I'd love to see an attacking defense. Of course that would mean maybe another good press coverage guy back there. And, just wondering ... why do we leave our SS who is not great in coverage in on every down, even obvious passing downs? Can't we find a way to get another cover guy in there? Couldn't we even think about having him move up front and take out one of our LBs?

If we used a high pick on a CB this year I would not at all be disappointed.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group