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'clean slate' approach with Vick has implications for Nnamdi
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AZ_Eaglesfan


Joined: 03 Jan 2013
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Location: Arizona
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is that Vick is not a good QB. How far do yo think this team can really go with him? He will lose more games then he wins, that much is guaranteed. Chip Kelly's recent move with Vick should cause people to question him, not praise him. Vick is not a winner, end of discussion.
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BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EaglesFan5-36-81 wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
BLick12 wrote:


Putting a QB in a system that fits his talent can indeed make him competent. Every QB is a system QB. Would Tom Brady be good in a zone-read offense? No. Would Colin Kaepernick succeed in a spread offense? I doubt it, he has the touch of a rapist on his throws. RG3, you think he would be nearly as good in a standard offense? I doubt that very much. All these QBs are in systems that cater to their strengths. Mike Vick played in a system where he wasn't encouraged to utilize his legs but was supposed to read a defense and make precise throws. That is not his game at all and yet he still proved to be moderately competent.


Hmmm lets look at the QBs you listed.... Brady, RG3, Kapernick... What is the difference between Vick and them? They all are good QBs, Vick isn't. Yes, Kaepernick is a read option QB, but he has ALWAYS been good at that. He has done it since college. RG3 and Brady will thrive regardless, so it doesn't matter. You can only Taylor an offense to a QB that has talent, not an old man that is losing his edge.


What do you think Vick ran in college and with the Falcons? It wasn't until Andy Reid got his grimy paws on him that he tried to force him to become a pocket passer.

RG3 has proven nothing as a passer. All he had to do this year was decipher 2 to 3 man routes. Mike Vick could most certainly do that.

How about a QB like Kurt Warner? Awesome in the spread offense. Couldn't play a lick with the Giants in their traditional pro-set. Being in the right system is huge for every QB.


Vick's always been trash as a passer, even with the Falcons. RG3 with 2 or 3 routes has proven to be twice the passer Vick has ever been...He has a feel for the pocket that is light years better than Vick's, turns the ball over an incredible amount less, and is all around better.

Vick had 2-3 routes to decipher in Atlanta and was poop so at it if his first read wasn't there he took off which was exciting, but its not good QB play.


Vick was a horrid passer in Atlanta I've beaten that dead horse numerous times now.

If you don't think he has improved as a passer, well, you're wrong. He might not be an elite passing QB but he can surely work his way through 2 and 3 routes now in his career.
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BLick12


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheKingDP wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
What do you think Vick ran in college and with the Falcons? It wasn't until Andy Reid got his grimy paws on him that he tried to force him to become a pocket passer.


Andy Reid's "grimy paws" pulled Vick out of Leavenworth and turned him into the #2 finisher in MVP voting in 2010. Vick then proceeded to struggle through two turnover-plagued seasons in which he led the league in turnovers...despite missing significant time each season. Andy Reid is the best thing that ever happened to Vick. Don't be delusional.

BLick12 wrote:
RG3 has proven nothing as a passer. All he had to do this year was decipher 2 to 3 man routes. Mike Vick could most certainly do that.


RG3 is RG300x better than Mike Vick. Even with one working leg. He still has a working brain (at least for the mean-time). RG3 can actually read a defense, and execute the proper throws. He reads & beats blitzes like a 10 year veteran. His problem is his inability to remember that linebackers & safeties hit like Mack trucks in the NFL. Much like Vick's inability to hold onto the ball. Or audible. Or handle a shotgun snap. Must I continue?

BLick12 wrote:
How about a QB like Kurt Warner? Awesome in the spread offense. Couldn't play a lick with the Giants in their traditional pro-set. Being in the right system is huge for every QB.


Kurt Warner's single season in New York isn't as bad as you remember. He went 5-4 as a starter with a broken thumb (on the world's smallest hands that are just GREAT in a windy, cold weathered East Rutherford, NJ). As for this "miraculous change in system" that Arizona provided, he went 8-18 in his first 26 starts in three seasons as starter in Arizona. He didn't really start to prosper until he played in the "Anquan Boldin & Larry Fitzgerald offense" in 2008. Or were you referring to the "Greatest Show on Turf" offenses of the Late 90's, Early 2000's that had hall of fame caliber players such as Orlando Pace, Marshall Faulk, Issac Bruce, and Torry Holt? How does this correlate to Mike Vick at all?


Andy did wonders for him as a passer, but did it at the expense of sacrificing his athleticism and putting him in a system where he isn't comfortable.

RG3 still makes bad reads, hell, he made a horrible one on a 2 man route where he threw it long and it got picked in the playoffs (or last week of the season can't remember which) instead of throwing it to a guy that was wide open on a dig.

My point about Warner was simply he needed to be in the right system. Yes, having the right personnel is also important but let's not pretend like Warner wasn't a pretty damn good QB when in the right situation. You cite his small hands and playing in NY and that actually helps prove my case further. You can't fit a square peg in a round hole.
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Another Ginger QB in the AFC North.

Looking forward to the "No Soul Bowl" twice a year
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JohnyEagles


Joined: 27 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
Nabbs4u wrote:
Phire wrote:
, then it's clear you've got your mind made up already.

Any reasonable and objective person could read those quotes and read Nnamdi's name written all over it


Aren't you the Pot calling the Kettle black these days. Your doing the same thing based on your obvious bias towards Asomugha. Fact is that statement could have been about numerous players including Babin, Jenkins, Bell , Vick and Desean. To be honest if very well could have been primarily about DRC and his lazy non commital attitude towards tackling and performance on the field worrying about his next contract and upcoming FA, "not making enough"! I'd be willing to bet that specific quote has more in common with DRC play in 2012 then it does with Nnamdi.

Quote:

“I think guys made a lot of excuses,” McCoy said. “Guys maybe weren’t playing up to par, guys weren’t focusing enough, guys making a certain amount of money, not putting out. So I think guys were looking for excuses.”


It's not speculation. I have no agenda against Nnamdi.

I saw with my own two eyes, and I know you guys all did too, his lackluster effort this year. Getting beat repeatedly this year. Watching the ball fly over his head and immediately barking at the rest of the secondary. Getting beat and going to the sideline straight to Bowles and not talking to team mates.

I have material facts that I base my suspicions upon. Every piece of evidence available right now supports my views, and contradicts those saying otherwise.

Quote:
“I’m talking about guys who have been in this league and should understand how to be a pro, I feel like, weren’t acting that way. Period. And that’s all I’m going to say about it. That’s what it was. Guys I felt like should have been pros, have been in this league and understand how things go, wasn’t acting like it.”


You can speculate on McCoy's statements all you want. Obviously, it's open ended because there's no name attached. But why would McCoy site money? He's not going to call someone out who is making less money than him.

That is Maclin's statement. Sounds like a veteran. You narrow it down to the end:

Quote:
"It's all about focus, dedication and commitment," Vick said, via CSN Philly. "Until you get guys who are willing to better themselves week in and week out and want to win, you're not going to win. And I haven't played with guys like that."


Vick^.
You can hate on Babin all you want but I didn't really see him quitting. Ineffective, yes, but quitting? No.

Who is a veteran making a boat load of money, not living up to it, not acting professionally, and not giving it all for the team?



Until YOU actually offer some evidence to sway me otherwise, I have no reason to change my views. And just because I'm putting Nnamdi as public enemy #1, it doesn't mean other guys are just as guilty.



This video pisses me off!!! Look at Nate Allen just running along the play instead of charging in and helping Nnamdi take out Miller to get the RB. Makes me sick, he needs to be CUT NOW!!!!!

I also like how Nnamdi was playing zone.......very good Juan...fired much?
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Meco


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnyEagles wrote:

This video pisses me off!!! Look at Nate Allen just running along the play instead of charging in and helping Nnamdi take out Miller to get the RB. Makes me sick, he needs to be CUT NOW!!!!!

I also like how Nnamdi was playing zone.......very good Juan...fired much?


This argument pisses me off. Corners play zone coverage! A LOT! It's kind of a crucial part of the job. The fact that Nnamdi can't do it reflects poorly on him, not the coaching staff that expects him to be able to do basic cornerback things.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are man corners, great zone corners and great slot corners. Rarely in the history of the NFL has there been any that are great at everything. Coaches put the players in the best position to thrive. No one would put Revis in the slot would they?
The coaching staff was absolutely responsible for using Nnambi in the wrong manner.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
There are man corners, great zone corners and great slot corners. Rarely in the history of the NFL has there been any that are great at everything. Coaches put the players in the best position to thrive. No one would put Revis in the slot would they?
The coaching staff was absolutely responsible for using Nnambi in the wrong manner.


No. He was used as a press corner and he failed. In addition to failing at what he is supposedly good at, he was horrendous at basic fundamental tasks like tackling and basic concepts like zone coverage. This combined with the lack of talent (no speed, ball skills) led to Nnamdi being garbage.
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SiLo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiLo wrote:
Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?


Not good enough of a tackler
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SiLo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?


Not good enough of a tackler


He's better than the safeties we have now.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SiLo wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?


Not good enough of a tackler


He's better than the safeties we have now.


No he's not.
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Hammertime52


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?


Not good enough of a tackler


He's better than the safeties we have now.


No he's not.



Yes he is. Hes aways in the right position, he just cant actually make the tackle 9 out of 10 times. Better then Nate and Kurt.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammertime52 wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
RainbowCarebear wrote:
SiLo wrote:
Should Nnambi go back to his original Safety position then?


Not good enough of a tackler


He's better than the safeties we have now.


No he's not.



Yes he is. Hes aways in the right position, he just cant actually make the tackle 9 out of 10 times. Better then Nate and Kurt.


So… Let me get this straight. You think a corner whose best attribute is his press coverage would make a good safety? Can't tackle. Can't take on blockers. Can't blitz. Isn't physical and attacking enough. Can't play zone. Lacks range and quickness to break on balls. Struggles to find the ball in the air. He'd be a major liability as a safety.
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Eagles_808


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah there's a reason why Nnamdi was converted to CB and became an All-Pro multiple times there. It's his best fit by a mile. He's clearly lost a step or two, however.
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nlesthought


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With a pay cut I'm willing to see if he can regain form...

I've never seen someone just "lose it" from 1 season to the next. I don't want to make excuses but maybe he was out of shape, maybe he was nicked up idk...

But in all seriousness if he doesn't fit with whatever scheme the DC wants to run, then we just cut him and take our losses.
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