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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Ohhh I see. Ok.

Well lets restructure some fools then.


Other than Wilfork, I don't know who they could restructure that they would want to. Mankins's deal is a killer but I'm skeptical of his willingness to restructure and whether or not it would be a good idea long-term for the team.


They could basically tell Gostkowski and Lloyd to accept pay cuts or get cut.

Fells, Spencer Larson, Myron Pryor, Jake Ballard (depends how he looks), Wendall combined would save ~1.5m after the new guy take their spots at minimum salaries.

There is also trading Mallet. That would save us another 500kish, though depending on the pick we receive we could lose money in total.

Depending on how the draft plays out, Ninkovich could be a casualty too.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:

They could basically tell Gostkowski and Lloyd to accept pay cuts or get cut.


Ok, but replacing Lloyd will cost money. You can't lose Welker and Lloyd and replace them with one rookie.

Gostkowski can go, but any cheap option is going to most likely be worse. He might be a good option to restructure

Quote:
Fells, Spencer Larson, Myron Pryor, Jake Ballard (depends how he looks), Wendall combined would save ~1.5m after the new guy take their spots at minimum salaries.


The first 2 are no brainers IMO. Pryor saves you a whole $315K. Cutting Ballard makes no sense. Cutting Wendell is insane - where will you find a starting center for less than $865K?

Quote:

There is also trading Mallet. That would save us another 500kish, though depending on the pick we receive we could lose money in total.


It will be a net addition to the salary cap. Any veteran backup QB is going to cost more than the $482K you save from trading Mallett and any 2013 draft pick he returns will use up his savings.

Quote:

Depending on how the draft plays out, Ninkovich could be a casualty too.


Cutting a starting DE, and one of only 2 useful DE's on the roster seems like a terrible idea when it saves you only 2.4M.

You can't just go cutting starters and key reserves left and right to save money. Those players will cost money to replace - unless you are OK with a drop in production.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Fells, Spencer Larson, Myron Pryor, Jake Ballard (depends how he looks), Wendall combined would save ~1.5m after the new guy take their spots at minimum salaries.

There is also trading Mallet. That would save us another 500kish, though depending on the pick we receive we could lose money in total.

Depending on how the draft plays out, Ninkovich could be a casualty too.
You need to stop. The Pats aren't cutting their starting C to save $400k, and they're looking to spend more money to add pass rush, not cut their sack leader to save money.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ballard obviously depends on how well he has recovered. It is highly possible someone of his size & build at his position will struggle recovering form the ACL. If he's not going to be a real contributor in any way, he has to be a candidate. The injury is going to be a lot more difficult for someone like Ballard than it will be Peterson or even Mankins.

I didnt even realize Wendell was our starter. That is a nvm.

Quote:
Ok, but replacing Lloyd will cost money. You can't lose Welker and Lloyd and replace them with one rookie.


I would draft 2 rookie. Wink But, I would prefer to restructure them both, personally. Between that and cutting Fells and Larsen, they'd have saved a few more precious millions.

It doesn't look like Cassel will even be available, let alone cheap. That alone makes me hesitant to trade Mallet this off season, simply because IDK who will be able to back up Brady. Factoring in the cost of the new draft pick & the cost of replacing him annnnd trading him seems like the wrong way to go atm.
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
I didnt even realize Wendell was our starter. That is a nvm.
You don't pay attention to the OL? I would have never guessed! Laughing
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
I didnt even realize Wendell was our starter. That is a nvm.
You don't pay attention to the OL? I would have never guessed! Laughing


Huuuuuuuuuush, of course I do.

DoesntmeanIknowtheirnamesthough.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Ballard obviously depends on how well he has recovered. It is highly possible someone of his size & build at his position will struggle recovering form the ACL. If he's not going to be a real contributor in any way, he has to be a candidate. The injury is going to be a lot more difficult for someone like Ballard than it will be Peterson or even Mankins.

I didnt even realize Wendell was our starter. That is a nvm.

Quote:
Ok, but replacing Lloyd will cost money. You can't lose Welker and Lloyd and replace them with one rookie.


I would draft 2 rookie. Wink But, I would prefer to restructure them both, personally. Between that and cutting Fells and Larsen, they'd have saved a few more precious millions.

It doesn't look like Cassel will even be available, let alone cheap. That alone makes me hesitant to trade Mallet this off season, simply because IDK who will be able to back up Brady. Factoring in the cost of the new draft pick & the cost of replacing him annnnd trading him seems like the wrong way to go atm.


Ballard didn't have an ACL injury. Even if he sucks, they will have to have a 3rd TE who will be making $500K or so. So the net savings is less than $200K

How do you propose restructuring Lloyd? If the team isn't happy with his personality, they're not going to want to extend him or shift money into guaranteed bonuses. Holding the proverbial gun to his head and forcing him to sign a cheaper deal (and he's already on a team-friendly deal) is a good way to ensure he is gone and other players (prospective FA) might not take kindly to it.

As for Wendell........ Shocked The guy wasn't just a 16 game starter, he was excellent most of the year.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/07/jake-ballard-tore-his-acl-in-the-super-bowl/

Did something change...?

As for Lloyd, I doubt it would look bad. It is nothing new for him. Any potential FA signing who would look down up Brady, Belichick, and co. due to how they treated Brandon Lloyd is far from the sharpest tool in the shed anyway.

If if this correctly murts, you think we ought to keep Lloyd, try & restructure wilfork and gostkowski, release fells and Larsen, and hold on to Ryan Mallett?

I dig it all, I just hope it is enough to let us retain Talib & Volmer, as well as acquiring a few new guys.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/07/jake-ballard-tore-his-acl-in-the-super-bowl/

Did something change...?


Yeah you're right he did tear the ACL but it was the microfracture that was the reason he was available (and why his career is in question). Coming off an ACL injury is common these days. Coming off of microfracture surgery is usually a career killer or career alterer.


Quote:
If if this correctly murts, you think we ought to keep Lloyd, try & restructure wilfork and gostkowski, release fells and Larsen, and hold on to Ryan Mallett?


No, I think they should dump Lloyd, restructure Wilfork, dump Fells and Larsen and go from there. Mallett I don't really care either way. I'd definitely be leaning trade if this draft class wasn't so weak. If you're going to deal him for a pick, it would be better to get a 2014 pick - and you may as well see how he does in camp before making that decision. I don't think trading him for a 3rd rounder this year makes a lot of sense and I'm skeptical that they can get an early 2nd rounder.

Gostkowksi I'm ambivalent about. I definitely think he is overpaid but the idea of having a shaky kicker is terrifying. Patriots fans have been badly spoiled by almost 2 decades of quality kicking from Vinatieri and Gostkowski (with a little Shayne Graham). Many posters here haven't experienced the horror of having a bad kicker and finding a good one can be very difficult. I'd probably try to restructure him but I wouldn't cut him. I would, however, bring in a rookie or 1st year kicker or 2 to try to find an alternative in camp.


Quote:

I dig it all, I just hope it is enough to let us retain Talib & Volmer, as well as acquiring a few new guys.


FWIW, I don't want them to retain either of those guys.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you want to dump Lloyd, Talib, and Volmer? Confused

Ok, I am all ears - I want to hear the comprehensive murts off season plan.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
So you want to dump Lloyd, Talib, and Volmer? Confused

Ok, I am all ears - I want to hear the comprehensive murts off season plan.


My opinion of Lloyd is based a lot on the personality issues. If those issues are real, and TBH I don't see any reason not to believe Bedard, I'm all for the Pats dumping him. I don't like turds on the team unless they are elite talent (and worth the trouble). On top of that, I think the Brady re-structure make Welker's return a near lock. I don't think Welker/Lloyd is a good enough 1-2 at WR so Lloyd has to go.

Vollmer isn't a guy I "want" to dump, but I just don't see him being worth $7M. No RT is IMO. Now, I do think his ability to backup LT is valuable but it's offset somewhat by his durability issues. Really it comes down to whether or not he's willing to take less cash to stay. At $5M per year for 3 years, I'd welcome him back with open arms. I don't know that he'd pass up that much cash though. Beatty got 5/$38.5 and IMO Vollmer will land in that range unless his medical issues scare off all suitors.

Talib is pretty simple, I think he's a terrible long-term investment. He's an idiot off the field and the work ethic "concerns" are troubling. Throw in fairly regular - albeit fairly minor - injuries and I don't see a guy who is a good bet to live up to a $6M+ per year deal. Even if he were willing to take a high-value, short deal (e.g. $8M for 1 year), I don't think his play last year warranted that kind of money. Given the number of solid DB's on the market, I wouldn't even both negotiating with him unless he's willing to take a short, below-market deal.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so
-what do you do to address the loss of lloyd?
-what do you do to address the loss of sebass?
-what do you do to address the loss of talib?
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Ok, so
-what do you do to address the loss of lloyd?
-what do you do to address the loss of sebass?
-what do you do to address the loss of talib?


There's a lot of different combinations of things they can do. It's a pretty good year to be looking for DB's and WR's.

Replacing Vollmer, presumably, would come from a draft pick (top 75) and some combination of internal guys.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Ok, so
-what do you do to address the loss of lloyd?
-what do you do to address the loss of sebass?
-what do you do to address the loss of talib?

If we can't get lloyd back I'd look in on bringing in a bunch of older vet WRs as well as a guy like Danny Amendola, Brian Hartline, and one of the other middling FA WRs. I'd also resign Stallworth, bring in Santana Moss, Jabar Gaffney and whatever cheap quality WRs are available. then I'd look in the draft at the end of the 2nd for a WR like Wheaton, Swope, possibly Bailey.

For Seabass its probably sign some competition for RT and possibly draft someone. Its a deep class and it also depends on how much Scar likes Zuecevic(Iowa OT we signed) and Cannon.

Talib is just get him back if not I'd try to get Grimes on a prove it contract. He may not want the comp in ATL and if he plays well here might get a solid contract for a CB of his age. I doubt Millner falls but Rhodes is a good tall CB and there are other good players.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Ok, so
-what do you do to address the loss of lloyd?
-what do you do to address the loss of sebass?
-what do you do to address the loss of talib?


There's a lot of different combinations of things they can do. It's a pretty good year to be looking for DB's and WR's.

Replacing Vollmer, presumably, would come from a draft pick (top 75) and some combination of internal guys.


Idk. I think we needed a WR on top of Welker/Lloyd. I also liked how we played at full health too much to give up. Volmer and Welker aren't overly important to me- I want to move away from the Welker lead passing game, and we played without Volmer plenty.

So lets say we let Volmer, Woodhead and Welker walk. I keep Talib. He had no time to get acclimated with out defense, but our secondary instantly improved with him. I would keep Demps and do expect him to contribute. His speed would be crazy on our team, we saw what guys like Vereen who run only 4.5's do. Sliding Demps in for a draw or screen pass ina 3rd Q -after they've been getting pounded by Ridley/Boldin & are tired from tying to catch Vereen- would catch defenses asleep at the wheel. There are plenty of cheap backs we could sign if need be, too.

After keeping Talib, I would use the rest of free agency money to
-Re-sign Arrington
-Re-sign Edelman
-Sign Randy Moss
-Put the rest towards a safety.
-add depth to the team.

I would trade up and acquire Patterson, even if it means 29 and next years 1st rounder, and then go BPA with what remains. Armstead is the equivalent of a 2nd round dt pick with upside imo. With Talib and Arrington returning, the possibility of Dowling doing something with his life, McCourtey and a better safety there, our secondary should be OK as should be our defensive line. On offense, Patterson, Moss, Lloyd, and Edleman are a fairly diverse group of receiving for Brady to play with, on top of our tight ends. IDK how much I would really play Moss - he would see a few targets and deep shots, but I would really bring him in to help Patterson with his learning curve. Crabtree has stated he learned more under Moss than any other combination of players/coaches thus far in his career. Harvin said similar teams. Have a difficult time seeing us losing a game if that were our off season, barring the potential injury. But even then, we would be loaded everywhere.
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