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AKRNA

Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4412

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

elliot878

Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9507
Location: Connecticut

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject:

Mile High wrote:

copeland wrote:

Maybe I'm not understnding you here, so I need clarification.
If you are judging the value of the pick, and not the player, it is simply a mid 2nd round valued pick. I don't understand how you can draw a conclusion and leave the player out of the equation?

I am simply differentiating what he does as a player to what he was as a prospect compared to the other prospects in his class.

As a prospect Osweiler was a 3rd round prospect at best and we got him in the 2nd. I want a 1st round prospect.

What raises Osweiler's value as a prospect is the apparent decline in talent at QB position based on this very poor QB class and the so far so bad next year's class.

Lot of evaluators had Brock as a 1st round pick last year. Dilfer was on espn radio the day of the draft stating how he was mocking Brock to us at 25
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elliot878

Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9507
Location: Connecticut

Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

Count me in for this camp. I remember the 12-15 years, or w/e the exact number was, of mediocrity between Elway and Manning. Anything to not go through that again.
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mke1010

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1157

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:11 am Post subject:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

BroncoinGermany

Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1428
Location: EU

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:53 am Post subject:

elliot878 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

Count me in for this camp. I remember the 12-15 years, or w/e the exact number was, of mediocrity between Elway and Manning. Anything to not go through that again.

Me, too. All the FAs and impact players in the world can only heighten one's chance to reach the SB to some degree, but luck remains a factor as well. We could boost our roster to a similar level like the Ravens or 49ers, yet we'd still not be assured to win it all. So I'd rather compromise and try to squeeze as much out of Manning as I can before his level of play drops off, provide him with a relatively good supporting cast, hoping it works, but at the same time make absolutely sure that I also don't salvage the team's future by paving the road straight down to cap hell three, four years down the road with too many stop-gap solutions.

I'd rather be the Giants after the Collins/Warner era than the Raiders of 2002.
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broncos67

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 18132
Location: Capitol Cit-ay

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:15 am Post subject:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

Those were the exact words I've been looking for this entire offseason. Nailed it.
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Reaver

Joined: 16 Dec 2009
Posts: 371

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:20 pm Post subject:

I would say I'm more in the win-now camp, and I still wasn't upset about the Osweiler pick. We had Caleb Hanie as our backup for goodness sakes. Say Manning sprained his ankle or something when our record was 7-3 and would be back by the playoffs, but we had to rely on Caleb Hanie to finish the season to get us there. Ugh.

Who was there at that pick anyway that people wanted? Lavonte David, an OLB? I think it would be naive to believe that Lavonte David would put us over the edge. I can't really argue with the Osweiler pick.

7DnBrnc53

Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 1277

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:18 pm Post subject:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

dbronx42 wrote:

Pretty strong words from Elway. Cool

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/55115/elway-osweiler-would-be-top-qb-in-2013

Quote:

Friday, I asked Elway where he would rank Osweiler in this class of rookie quarterbacks.

“First,” Elway said strongly and without any hesitation.

“From what I’ve seen from this class and what I’ve seen from Brock in the past year, I’d put him first,” Elway said. “Would he be a top-10 pick? I’m not sure, but he’d definitely be a first-round pick .... Now, I’m biased. But I really like what I’ve seen from him."

That jives with what I've read and heard as well as what I've been told from my source inside Dove Valley. They are all really, really high on Osweiler. They might be going a little bit overboard, but it's changed my opinion of the pick. If everyone is as excited about him as they are they have to be on to something, it's not just PR anymore.

At this point, I'm hoping Osweiler is a blow-away success not only because it's good for us but because it dump a gross ton of eggs on the faces of uninformed nimrods in the Denver media who make a point of bashing Osweiler on a daily basis (saying, among other things, that he will be out of the league in 5 years) on their amateurish radio show.

AAA, are you referring to a Mr. Nate Lundy?

I saved the episode of The Drive the night that Brock was picked, and Nate was ripping him a brand new one. He said that he played in a Dennis Erickson high school offense, and he left school last year because he couldn't have the same production again.

germ-x

Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7158

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:36 pm Post subject:

mke1010 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

Aren't you the same guy arguing about how Denver can't trade for Darrelle Revis and build for the future at the same time? To go with that, my argument was exactly what AAA laid out....which is, trading for Revis doesn't mean sacrificing the future.

AKRNA

Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4412

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject:

germ-x wrote:

mke1010 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

Hey germ, in all fairness, I'm kind of in the same place.

Love Revis, but still can't figure out how to do the deal without mortgaging the future. So far, neither can anyone else.

I'm a math guy, and can't make it work.

Bet Elway can't either.

broncos67

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 18132
Location: Capitol Cit-ay

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:27 pm Post subject:

AKRNA wrote:

germ-x wrote:

mke1010 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

Problem is, without knowing contract specifics, we can't really make assumptions about that.
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elliot878

Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 9507
Location: Connecticut

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject:

broncos67 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

germ-x wrote:

mke1010 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

Problem is, without knowing contract specifics, we can't really make assumptions about that.

If we can keep Revis at a low cap hit while Champ is still on his current deal, and then have Revis take on the real big money for the rest of his contract, it works.

Problem is Revis wants money, and I'm sure he wants it from day one with his new team.

This stuff is set to ramp up in the coming days as the league opens its new year.
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AnAngryAmerican

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 17492
Location: Loveland, CO

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject:

7DnBrnc53 wrote:

AAA, are you referring to a Mr. Nate Lundy?

No, that reference was to DMac. I actually like Nate Lundy, even though I don't always agree with him.

As far as Osweiler, it's one thing to not like the pick, but it's a different story to not like Osweiler and his potential. I heard Al and DMac talking today about drafting Matt Barkley.

This is frustrating because I have a column I wrote two weeks ago for Football Nation about the Revis trade but they're not publishing it until the Combine and all that hoopla has passed. Mad

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broncodad2012

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 15
Location: nebraska

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject:

elliot878 wrote:

broncos67 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

germ-x wrote:

mke1010 wrote:

AKRNA wrote:

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

The second camp, and this is where Elway is so it's really all that matters, believe that winning now and building for the future aren't mutually exclusive.

Perfectly said.

AAA- I believe I was the first to use this quote on this forum relative to the Elway era. Smile

Problem is, without knowing contract specifics, we can't really make assumptions about that.

after seeing what tom brady did why would anyone want this guy. yea he can play the game but so could T.O. and no one wanted him.

AnAngryAmerican

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 17492
Location: Loveland, CO

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject:

broncodad2012 wrote:

after seeing what tom brady did why would anyone want this guy. yea he can play the game but so could T.O. and no one wanted him.

What an absurd comment. And one that doesn't take into account hardly any facts.

What does Tom Brady have to do with anything? I take it you're trying to say that Tom Brady is some altruistic hero for signing a contract extension quietly? One, QBs, especially elite QBs, are treated differently than every other position. Two, the Patriots are a well-run franchise that don't put themselves in salary cap hell the dysfunctional Jets have. They probably promised Brady a year ago that they would work out an extension that would keep him a Patriot for life.

For the record, Tom Brady has earned $99.526m over the course of his career, the fifth-most among current players. The restructured extension he signed today will make his yearly compensation fall between $13 and $15m for each of the next five years. And every penny of that amount is fully guaranteed. Meaning, by 2017, Brady will have earned $170 million dollars over the course of his NFL career.

If no one ever wanted TO how come he played in the league for 15 years and is a lock to go to the Hall of Fame? The only reason TO is not in the NFL anymore is because he's 39 years old and isn't good enough to make a NFL roster (the same thing happened to Jerry Rice). Sure he still wants to play, who wouldn't want to play a game they love and at which they excelled? But he can't, so he's retired.

And why would anyone want Darrelle Revis.? Boy, I don't know, you stumped me there. I guess it could have something to do with the fact that he's an elite player, in his prime, at a position that gets more important in the NFL each season. But no, Tom Brady signed an extension today so no in the NFL should want Revis on their team. Rolling Eyes

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